7.3 already...

74stang2togo

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Mod Dude
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I don't know man. With so many years of Coyote swap stuff being available, it's honestly an easier swap. There is so much information and parts available for that swap, it's going to be easier. I don't see it. It's still a pushrod engine that will never see much aftermarket support. I don't see the advantage of doing a 7.3 swap over a 460 block or BBC swap. Much more parts and support available for both.

Kurt
If you don't see the advantage, you're blind.

Both the Ford 385-series and Chevrolet big block have massive design compromises that are by-products of the era in which they were designed. This new generation of big-displacement V8s from Ford and GM (read a little about the GM engine here: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/0...t-engine-compares-to-its-predecessor/?ampcf=1 ) have none of those compromises.

On top of that, both are tuned VERY conservatively from the factory for low-end torque and highway fuel economy, meaning a handheld tuner and bolt-ons will net you gains only seen on most traditional big-blocks with a full top-end swap. Throw in that they're lighter, more efficient, will be easier to get parts for, and in 5-10 years will probably be cheap as hell in boneyards the way LS half-ton truck engines and F150 Coyotes are... Yeah, you're blind.
 
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Hoytster

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I think people need to look at the technical details of this engine more to really appreciate it (like intake and cylinder flow characteristics, port entry, piston design, valvetrain design, efficiency, ect). The initial design is light years ahead of what you are starting with an old pushrod design. What this means is the power potential, from stock or stock based components, is much higher then what was available with the stock components on a windows or BBF based motor. This is where you will realize the savings since you won't have to completely rebuild the engine with aftermarket components to produce (and reliably handle) the power you want to make. You can't dispute the benefit of being able to use OEM parts that have the millions of dollars of R&D spent on the design. You just can't do this in the aftermarket and make money.

And sure, you could probably spend tons of money on aftermarket components (once they become available) and make tons more power from this platform as people always seem to want to do. But the smart ones will look at the initial design and only tweak what they need to achieve their goals, saving money and headaches along the way. IMO, the OEM design is very good and with only minor changes you will see some nice numbers from this platform. It's being held back due to the OEM's reliability and emissions goals.

This is a lot like the coyote in a way. The oem design is very good and you can make some really strong numbers with stock components. Once you start going away from OEM the price tag increased exponentially. At least the 7.3 is a simpler design which should mean if the aftermarket does move forward with parts, they should be more attainable.

I still maintain this engine will be more for the drag/street guy due to the weight. The increase in weight from the coyote to the 7.3 is pretty large and won't work well in a car that already has a pretty crappy weight distribution front to rear.
 

revhead347

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If you don't see the advantage, you're blind.

Both the Ford 385-series and Chevrolet big block have massive design compromises that are by-products of the era in which they were designed. This new generation of big-displacement V8s from Ford and GM (read a little about the GM engine here: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/0...t-engine-compares-to-its-predecessor/?ampcf=1 ) have none of those compromises.

On top of that, both are tuned VERY conservatively from the factory for low-end torque and highway fuel economy, meaning a handheld tuner and bolt-ons will net you gains only seen on most traditional big-blocks with a full top-end swap. Throw in that they're lighter, more efficient, will be easier to get parts for, and in 5-10 years will probably be cheap as hell in boneyards the way LS half-ton truck engines and F150 Coyotes are... Yeah, you're blind.
I hope you're right. This is one of those circumstances that I really want to be wrong on. As a Blue Oval enthusiast, I would love to have Ford reap the benefits of a large displacement endeavor. I just don't believe the financial auditors will see it the same way. I really believe that the performance aspirations of this engine will come down to dollars and sense.

Kurt
 

74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
Mar 7, 2002
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I hope you're right. This is one of those circumstances that I really want to be wrong on. As a Blue Oval enthusiast, I would love to have Ford reap the benefits of a large displacement endeavor. I just don't believe the financial auditors will see it the same way. I really believe that the performance aspirations of this engine will come down to dollars and sense.

Kurt
It doesn't matter what Ford's aspirations are.

There was never a single high performance variant of the 460 in an production vehicle. Most barely made 300hp if that (my '75 T-bird with a 460 made a whopping 212hp, at the flywheel, the day Ford built it). Sure there was the related 429, but those were very few in number. But drag racers, monster truck builders, boat owners, and others wanted more, and the aftermarket obliged.

The 7.3 Powerstroke would be another example, Ford never made a single performance part for that engine, but you can make insane power with aftermarket parts.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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It doesn't matter what Ford's aspirations are.

There was never a single high performance variant of the 460 in an production vehicle. Most barely made 300hp if that (my '75 T-bird with a 460 made a whopping 212hp, at the flywheel, the day Ford built it). Sure there was the related 429, but those were very few in number. But drag racers, monster truck builders, boat owners, and others wanted more, and the aftermarket obliged.

The 7.3 Powerstroke would be another example, Ford never made a single performance part for that engine, but you can make insane power with aftermarket parts.
This is all crazy talk when you consider that there is still a significant amount of 460 engines out there. A 460 has the aftermarket. A 460 can be made into a 540 with nothing more than a Rotating assembly. There are numerous heads already on the market for this engine, and even a dim bulb shade tree mechanic can stumble into the necessary combination to make 600hp/600tq.

Who cares if Ford never put one of these anchors in anything back in the day that made significant power? They can be make Stupid power today. I threw one together using cast iron heads, and kept it at 466 c.i. Back in my “ When will I stop waiting on Saturday night so I can go out and break something” drag racing days. Single 4bbl carb, dual plane intake, 9.5:1 trw forged replacement pistons, flat tappet solid lifter camshaft, C4 with 3000 stall converter.
7.0 1/8 mile in a 3000 pound car

See.....even a dim bulb can make power with that engine...But if you’re a smart feller....You can just buy one already assembled with a 2/24 warranty.
 
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74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
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This is all crazy talk when you consider that there is still a significant amount of 460 engines out there. A 460 has the aftermarket. A 460 can be made into a 540 with nothing more than a Rotating assembly. There are numerous heads already on the market for this engine, and even a dim bulb shade tree mechanic can stumble into the necessary combination to make 600hp/600tq.

Who cares if Ford never put one of these anchors in anything back in the day that made significant power? They can be make Stupid power today. I threw one together using cast iron heads, and kept it at 466 c.i. Back in my “ When will I stop waiting on Saturday night so I can go out and break something” drag racing days. Single 4bbl carb, dual plane intake, 9.5:1 trw forged replacement pistons, flat tappet solid lifter camshaft, C4 with 3000 stall converter.
7.0 1/8 mile in a 3000 pound car

See.....even a dim bulb can make power with that engine...But if you’re a smart feller....You can just buy one already assembled with a 2/24 warranty.
My point isn't that 460s can't make insane power, my point is that it got there without Ford.

@revhead347 is saying it (The 7.3 Godzilla) won't be used as a performance engine without Ford doing so first, but it's been done before. Ford was a follower when it came to high-performance 460-based engines, not the leader.

Besides that, I'd never spend $18k on that crate motor and you know that. I'd build something cheaper and more exotic like you. If I wanted something that easy, there's any of a dozen different crate Windsors that bolt right into ElSuperPinto, but I'm gonna cut :poo: up and put something insane (for the application) in there.
 
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7991LXnSHO

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A 445.43 ci small block Ford OEM motor? I am not sure how I missed that. I probably figured a 7.3l was going to be another diesel. With all the eco boost and OHC motors, I am surprised they put the development and money into what looks like a fairly compact and traditional motor design. A coyote based V-10 would have been “only” 6.25l, and cheaper to redevelop, but I wonder about durability in comparison to this. Is this based on any other engine line or was it a fairly clean sheet design?

Mike, the 460 is known as a gas guzzler to the farm and towing folks around here. And I bet that carries over to the performance builds. You would know better with first hand experience. And it weighs a lot. The difference in price vs. the Godzilla motor would pay for a lot of gas. I wonder if the new motor’s durability came with as much weight?
 
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74stang2togo

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Mod Dude
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A 445.43 ci small block Ford OEM motor?
Ford has actually referred to it as a big block, no joke.

Not sure how you've missed it either, the thing has been on every car site I frequent but this one for nearly six months. Performance shops, truck buyers, fleet buyers, contractors, etc can't wait to get their hands on the engines, with or without the truck. Ford may have been out of the pushrod game for two decades, but this engine should put FCA and GM on notice if it's half as good as the hype.
 

Hoytster

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By all normal standards of engine classification between a small and big block, this is a big block.

1. Engine size larger then 400 cubic inches
2. Y-block configuration
3. Canted Valves
4. Square or close to square architecture
5. Long stroke then a typical small block
6. Engine weight and strength
7. Larger bore then a typical small block


Block size and displacement alone does not define a big block.
 
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74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
Mar 7, 2002
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By all normal standards of engine classification between a small and big block, this is a big block.

1. Engine size larger then 400 cubic inches
2. Y-block configuration
3. Canted Valves
4. Square or close to square architecture
5. Long stroke then a typical small block
6. Engine weight and strength
7. Larger bore then a typical small block


Block size and displacement alone does not define a big block.
Chevy and Ford have both made 400+ ci engines they didn't consider "big block".
 

revhead347

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A 445.43 ci small block Ford OEM motor? I am not sure how I missed that. I probably figured a 7.3l was going to be another diesel. With all the eco boost and OHC motors, I am surprised they put the development and money into what looks like a fairly compact and traditional motor design. A coyote based V-10 would have been “only” 6.25l, and cheaper to redevelop, but I wonder about durability in comparison to this. Is this based on any other engine line or was it a fairly clean sheet design?

Mike, the 460 is known as a gas guzzler to the farm and towing folks around here. And I bet that carries over to the performance builds. You would know better with first hand experience. And it weighs a lot. The difference in price vs. the Godzilla motor would pay for a lot of gas. I wonder if the new motor’s durability came with as much weight?
I was hoping that this engine would be a big Coyote engine. I had this discussion in another group, and there was a guy on it that actually works in the assembly plant for the Coyote. He said that the Coyote is actually a really sophisticated engine to build, and cost a lot of money to produce per unit. Ford did not want to build an even bigger engine with that kind of production cost.

Kurt
 

revhead347

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It doesn't matter what Ford's aspirations are.

There was never a single high performance variant of the 460 in an production vehicle. Most barely made 300hp if that (my '75 T-bird with a 460 made a whopping 212hp, at the flywheel, the day Ford built it). Sure there was the related 429, but those were very few in number. But drag racers, monster truck builders, boat owners, and others wanted more, and the aftermarket obliged.

The 7.3 Powerstroke would be another example, Ford never made a single performance part for that engine, but you can make insane power with aftermarket parts.
I've had an F150 for 14 years now, so I am on the biggest forum for that too. I go there to pick information if I need it. The gasoline truck crowd is nothing like the Mustang crowd. If you have a more complicated question than "How to install a cold air kit?" or "How big of a tire can I run?" the answer isn't there. I'll admit the diesel guys can be a little more hardcore. Keep in mind, diesel mods are much easier to do. Pump up the boost, and away it goes. There isn't much done to the long block. It's not like there are aftermarket heads and stuff for the 7.3L diesel. I am aware of one Mustang that has been 7.3L diesel swapped, and one that was Cummins swapped. The 7.3L was done here in Atlanta many years ago as a drag car to promote bio fuel awareness.

Kurt
 

74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
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Mar 7, 2002
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I've had an F150 for 14 years now, so I am on the biggest forum for that too. I go there to pick information if I need it. The gasoline truck crowd is nothing like the Mustang crowd. If you have a more complicated question than "How to install a cold air kit?" or "How big of a tire can I run?" the answer isn't there. I'll admit the diesel guys can be a little more hardcore. Keep in mind, diesel mods are much easier to do. Pump up the boost, and away it goes. There isn't much done to the long block. It's not like there are aftermarket heads and stuff for the 7.3L diesel. I am aware of one Mustang that has been 7.3L diesel swapped, and one that was Cummins swapped. The 7.3L was done here in Atlanta many years ago as a drag car to promote bio fuel awareness.

Kurt
I was on that forum when I had my 2014 F150, you're not wrong, that place was a wasteland, virtually no knowledge to be found. Just a bunch of bros with their bro-dozers for the most part.

Also, if you think more boost and fuel is all there is to diesel performance, you're sadly mistaken. There's a lot more to it than that beyond the knuckle-draggin coal-rolling crowd.

But again, you're missing the point.

To use another example, a gasoline V8 example at that, look at the Toyota 1UZ. It was built to be smooth, quiet, and torque-y for JDM Toyota luxury and US-spex Lexus sedans. That's it.

There's a huge aftermarket out there for them, turbos, blowers, even aftermarket internals and top ends.

The Godzilla may never develop that far, but with people already doing engine swap kit development and electronic tuning development on them (which is where ANY performance aftermarket is incubated on modern engines) the signs are promising.
 

revhead347

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I was on that forum when I had my 2014 F150, you're not wrong, that place was a wasteland, virtually no knowledge to be found. Just a bunch of bros with their bro-dozers for the most part.

Also, if you think more boost and fuel is all there is to diesel performance, you're sadly mistaken. There's a lot more to it than that beyond the knuckle-draggin coal-rolling crowd.

But again, you're missing the point.

To use another example, a gasoline V8 example at that, look at the Toyota 1UZ. It was built to be smooth, quiet, and torque-y for JDM Toyota luxury and US-spex Lexus sedans. That's it.

There's a huge aftermarket out there for them, turbos, blowers, even aftermarket internals and top ends.

The Godzilla may never develop that far, but with people already doing engine swap kit development and electronic tuning development on them (which is where ANY performance aftermarket is incubated on modern engines) the signs are promising.
The 1UZ reference is a great argument. I will say that it was put in a car though. But you are making me think about it more.

I still contend that the best way for this engine swap to shoot off is for Ford to offer a reasonably priced Control Pack for it.

Kurt
 

74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
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The 1UZ reference is a great argument. I will say that it was put in a car though. But you are making me think about it more.

I still contend that the best way for this engine swap to shoot off is for Ford to offer a reasonably priced Control Pack for it.

Kurt
Ford doesn't have to, Megasquirt and others already exist that can be adapted to virtually anything.
 

HotFox

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I think some underestimated the OE and aftermarket following, I expected it to be decent. Decent enough that I predicted someone or Ford Performance will offer a aluminum block.
 

74stang2togo

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