Cylinders 1 thru 4 misfire

92BlackWidowHO

New Member
Jul 24, 2011
13
0
1
Georgia
I have a 92 Mustang GT with a 1990 stock 5.0HO Mustang Engine. When you crank it, it shakes horribly. After checking the harmonic balancer, it looked like it shifted alil bit. So, I buy a new one. Flywheel is new as well. Both 50oz counterweights. After replacing the HB, it still shakes horribly along with it hard to start and rough idle and stalls easily and only revs to about 3200rpms, and smooths out around 2000rpms. But i've noticed that the headers on the passenger side wasn't getting really hot as the Driver side was scorching hot. I pulled the spark plugs one by one and cylinders 1, 2, 3, and 4 didn't react in anyway. Cylinders 5 through 8 are firing properly. So, sounds like possible compression issues. Its getting gas to the cylinders and the plugs are new along with the wires. Cylinders 1 thru 4 plugs were wet. I did confirm that the distributor is properly working as I tested each point on the dist cap. the ICM is good as well. I took the Valve cover off and inspected the rocker arms as the engine was turned over. all rocker arms move when engine is turned over. I took the rocker arms off and the pushrods are all straight and it good condition. So, I'm looking at either valve issues, possible head gasket, or cylinder wear? :shrug: The engine supposedly has around 104K on it. Came out of a 1990 Mustang(original engine) Any help is greatly appreciated! :)
 
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Kinda strange that an entire bank of cylinders is being taken out, and the other is fine. It seems like you can narrow it down to whatever is unique to each entire row of cylinders.

Does each bank of cylinders have its own catalytic converter?

Has the engine always been like this since you got it?
 
You stated that the cylinders were wet ... this means they are not firing correctly if at all. but, then you stated that the plugs were firing. Seems to me that maybe the plugs are not firing correctly for that bank possibly. Do a compression test as stated above. If that's okay, it sounds like either an ignition problem or an injector problem. If the compression is good, either the spark is not firing correctly or in correct order or the injectors on that side have a problem.
 
Coyote5.0, When I bought the car in Nov 2010. It didn't have a Cataylic Converter on the car. It had a POS Engine in it from 1974(non-HO Engine with HO Intake System.....HMM!), so I bought this engine from a guy that had planned on using it, but never did. He said it sat for maybe 2years wrapped up in a tarp. Everything looked good on it from the outside and all original(except the waterpump)Yes, the engine has done this ever since I've had it. Car didn't have a smog pump system in it when I bought it either. I borrowed a compression tester from my transmission mechanic, but the valve stem is messed up and doesn't hold the PSI. So, I may have to go to a Auto parts store and loan one from them and then see what the PSI levels are.
 
Ok, I did a compression test on all 8 cylinders, and the compression levels are fine. I checked Injectors and all 8 are spraying a fine mist. So, next step is replacing the intake plenum gaskets. Might as well replace the Valve Cover gaskets while I'm at it since they are moist. I'll keep you guys posted when i get it all put back together. :)
 
Cylinder balance test:

Revised 30-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinder with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Be sure to turn off the A/C clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.


Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

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If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Cylinder balance test
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure


Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.

How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.

With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.

See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
 

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Still No Luck

Ok, I replaced the Plenum Gaskets and the car is now running on 8 cylinders, but the same shaking problem as before is still happening. When the car is cold, its hard to start, and when it does, it revs to about 1200, then usually stall around 5-6 times, and then it tries to run. I've checked all vaccum lines and found the A/C line was cracked. I blocked it off and the chugging quit some, but it still stalling at low rpms 50/50 odds. If you rev the engine around 2000rpms its smooth as a whistle. And higher rpms doesn't shake as bad as the lower rpms. And I've also noticed no matter how I set the distributor, it is backfiring through the intake at one point or another. I know Timing is close enough that is should run just fine. I may have to "reset it with the timing light again" But I've been told by numerous people and even mechanics that if my timing was just slightly off, it should not shake that bad. So, what am I looking for at this point? Again it has both new Balancer and Flywheel that are the correct counterweights. So, I know their is a timing/misfire issue somewhere. I've cleaned the EGR Valve as well.
 
Have you done the cylinder balance test and posted the codes you get? See my previous post to get more info. The cylinder balance test will spot weak or malfunctioning cylinders, and the code dump will spot sensor and wiring problems.
 
As soon as I get the chance, I'm going to do a cylinder balance test and dump codes(if any.) I'll try to get a video of the engine starting and running so maybe ya'll can help me out. I did get the timing set at 10btdc(stock engine) and I've notice slight backfiringthru the intake still and won't rev past 3000rpms, and occasionally 4000rpms. I looked at the moter mounts and the rubber is moving in sync of the engine viberation. So, is that a sign of bad motor mounts. I also got starting fluid, sprayed all around the intake gasket areas, heads, and all the vacuum hoses and no change in engine idle. Again the viberation is worst at 1000rpms. I looked under the car at the harmonic balancer(new) and its not wobbling at all. I haven't changed the fuel filter since I've had the car, but the car does have good fuel pressure. Is there something else I could check that's fuel/air related?
 
Ok, So until I install my transmission or somehow bypass the NSS to activate engine diagnostics, I can't do the cylinder balance test along with computer codes. With the engine not running, all I got was a code 67(NSS open), and a code 95(Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Failure). Fuel Pump works(but does continiously run like almost indefinately with engine not running with ignition in run position) and it does hold good fuel pressure when running. But anyways, I got 2 videos of the car running and let ya'll be the judge as to what may be my problem. Thanks! Here's Part 1 Dailymotion - Mustang Running Issues Part 1 - a Auto-Moto video Here's Part 2 Dailymotion - Mustang Running Issues Part 2 - a Auto-Moto video
 
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!



The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.
 
Wow, the videos helped a lot!

A few things,

1) The engine runs like *****!

2) Having the MAF open to the engine bay is making things worse! Even the stupid ricer cone filters that go in the engine bay help a little (not much!) to keep the fan wash from massively screwing up the MAF readings.

3) I like say "Let's start with the basics". :)
Can the car run/idle while in limp mode?
To do that, disconnect the MAF. And start the car.
The car should idle. In N, you should also be able to "slowly" increase/decrease the engine RPM and still have the engine run "okay". Without a MAF, there's no "accel pump, or decel pump" action in the EEC. So, with a load, or with "quick" throttle changes, the engine will hesitate/surge/stall.

To be honest, from the sound and looks, I think it's more than fan wash or maybe a bad MAF. But, you have to eliminate those possibilities as being the immediate problem.
 
It sounds like the timing is off. You did
1) Set the timing with the SPOUT off, right?
2) Made sure you put the SPOUT back on?
3) If you have an "adjustable" timing light, you made sure it was set to "0" advance/retard?

Otherwise, it sounds like a bad head/cam/lifter.

Still, first see how it runs with the MAF disconnected. It's a quick and easy test, and helps to eliminate a lot of the control loop sensors as being the immediate problem.

Good Luck!
 
Ok, I'm getting a code 41 and 91(both are engine running lean.)But I unplug the MAF Sensor and it idled smoother and didn't stall and when its plugged up, it idles real rough and stalls. I've already cleaned it but no change. Tomorrow ill do a cylinder balance test. Too late in the day to do it right now.