help me pick 351 or 393

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Wit the post above about the 351 and 500hp 393 i will tell you the few extra cubes isnt fully the reason for 500hp. Its the heads. I believe ford actually used the same E7 heads on the 302 and the 351.

By the mid 70s and up until the Lightning, they pretty much used junk heads on the 351s. However, the '69-70 Windsor heads were pretty decent, and the later GT40/GT40P iron heads were actually modeled after them. Granted they're no 500hp head...just worlds better than E7's.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

By the mid 70s and up until the Lightning, they pretty much used junk heads on the 351s. However, the '69-70 Windsor heads were pretty decent, and the later GT40/GT40P iron heads were actually modeled after them. Granted they're no 500hp head...just worlds better than E7's.

Gottcha. Well regardless H/C/I is more important for making HP than going from a 351 to 393. It's just a pain to yank the motor and machine it later if you want to go bigger.

Wouldn't want to see you go threw all that effort building a 393 with crap heads/cam/intake to still make a 13 sec. quarter mile.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I've seen that happen 100 times. Guys go to the junkyard and yank a 351 out of an Econoline van and put it in a Mustang with no other mods to the engine except maybe a carb and intake with a carb that is way too big, and it runs like total crap.

I'm not 100% on the numbers but i believe the GT40 heads that came on the Lightning 351 had larger chambers...i think if you were to take a 351 and put on P heads off of an Explorer you'd probably get around 10:1 CR, and even though the heads wouldn't really flow enough to make big power numbers, it would still be a healthy torque engine. I'm pretty sure the Lightings were rated at 240hp/340tq, and with a nice cam and better intake they'd be a real fun engine in a Mustang.

 

[white 89 GT]

I've seen that happen 100 times. Guys go to the junkyard and yank a 351 out of an Econoline van and put it in a Mustang with no other mods to the engine except maybe a carb and intake with a carb that is way too big, and it runs like total crap.

I'm not 100% on the numbers but i believe the GT40 heads that came on the Lightning 351 had larger chambers...i think if you were to take a 351 and put on P heads off of an Explorer you'd probably get around 10:1 CR, and even though the heads wouldn't really flow enough to make big power numbers, it would still be a healthy torque engine. I'm pretty sure the Lightings were rated at 240hp/340tq, and with a nice cam and better intake they'd be a real fun engine in a Mustang.

Yeah and I know a guy who did just that, 351 wrecking yard motor A-351 cam edelbrock performer heads and ran mid 11`s.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

Yep...Heads are very important....a 351 swap without aftermarket heads is a waste of effort IMO.

 

[wildstang90]

Great info on this thread I was thinking about doing a 302/351 swap. But I decided to just do the efi to carb. With this info I might just skip my efi to carb swap and do a 351. I have a track only car so yea I will stroke the **** outa it.

 

[woodsnake]

Fordstrokers.com

 

[57fairlane]

I thought I had already posted in this thread . . . but I guess I haven't.

The problem you started here is that everyone on the internet has an imaginary budget and since it isn't their car they don't have to worry about anything other than advice.

Build a good 393 shortblock and ride out on some homeported e7s and if you are going to run a carb, performer RPM and 650 demon and some OTS cam (1087, f-cam, something decent but cheap and available)

With a stick, it'll make ~320rwhp and probably 400rwtq or more.

Have fun cruising around town and running mid to high 11s and if you want to make 430-450rwhp, all you have to do is change the heads and cam.

Internet engine builders will jump all over people for running out of money or not buying AFRs and a custom cam but not every car needs that and not every owner wants to take life 1320ft at a time.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Someone tell me the price difference between a 408 stroker kit and a 393 stroker kit please? My comments weren't based off of any imaginary budget...my car is primered dude..i'm not spending imaginary money. In fact my comments were based on getting the most out of your money, quite the opposite.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

im not saying i have some endless budget, i have a dart IE 347 waiting to be finished but im saying the car should have some time spent on it before dropping in a ****load of power

 

[Shaolin Crane]

Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!
Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!
seems like it would be about the same price, now since they specifically make a 351 kit from what i can see you would probably need to go over a size anyways to make sure everything was in spec

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Your links are to 351 Cleveland stroker kits...but that actually doesn't make much difference. Here's two 351W Dominator stroker kits...

408:
Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!

393:
Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!


How's that for irony? The 408 is actually $10 cheaper. For my money, 15ci extra plus saving a whopping $10 (lol) seems more logical to me, but what do i know?

 

[Shaolin Crane]

crap i clicked on the wrong link, oh well my point still goes across, go 408 or go 427, and i have a dominator 347 kit from probe and i dont have the wrist pin issue either, were not trying to be pricks dude were trying to help you get the most power for your money

 

[95Vert383AOD]

A good bottom end will cost as much if not more than the top....Figure out how much power you want to make. Under 500hp you don't need to go crazy on a bullet proof block and Rotating assembly. Money saved on using a stock bottom end could be spent on 8-10psi forced induction. and you will still have a pretty reliable daily driver that doesn't have to rev. to the moon which makes a more fun street car.

But in the future if you wanted that forced induction 700+ hp car you may regret using a stock bottom.

Bottom line is get a HP number you want to make and build accordingly. A decent rotating assembly will cost $1000+ plus machining. If you want an aftermarket block then its even more. But like i said its not necessary if you only want to make 500hp. A stock 351 with decent heads and a blower will make a streetable 500hp car.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

A good bottom end will cost as much if not more than the top....Figure out how much power you want to make. Under 500hp you don't need to go crazy on a bullet proof block and Rotating assembly. Money saved on using a stock bottom end could be spent on 8-10psi forced induction. and you will still have a pretty reliable daily driver that doesn't have to rev. to the moon which makes a more fun street car.

But in the future if you wanted that forced induction 700+ hp car you may regret using a stock bottom.

Bottom line is get a HP number you want to make and build accordingly. A decent rotating assembly will cost $1000+ plus machining. If you want an aftermarket block then its even more. But like i said its not necessary if you only want to make 500hp. A stock 351 with decent heads and a blower will make a streetable 500hp car.

very true, but from his post he insinuating like eventually he would make more power or why else would he go with a 393 stroker

 

[95Vert383AOD]

Well anyone can just toss a 351 in there....Naturally you want to build the 351 to something pretty like a 393. But i wouldn't go threw the trouble of building a pretty 393 short block just to toss some ported stock heads on. E7's are smallish for a 351 porting them would be a waste on a 393. You would make more power keeping a stock rotating assembly and getting a set of AFR's. Sure theres more rotating mass on stock internals...but not enough to matter.

Like i said....to help we need 2 things a Numerical $BUDGET$ for the build and a base HP goal/ Possible future HP goal.

Without that were just pissin in the wind.

If this setup is going to start N/A he would be best picking the largest Displacement possible with good flowing heads.

If budget makes him choose between Good heads and a Stroker i would choose good heads.

But thats me....you can have a 393 that doesn't make power over 5000rpm or a 351 that spins easily.

Ill tell you from experience. I have a 383 with heads that have flow numbers like an afr 165. You will get on it and the torque will be there but the bigger motor will choke for air. With AFR 205's i plan on spinning to 6500rpm. Right now i cant make power over 4500RPM....sure i can spin the motor higher....but theres no point.

I sent my combo to Ed Curtis....and with a 383 he recommended a 205 or 225 Head. E7's in any form will make that car all bark and no bite.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

This thread is heading in ever direction except for the one it was asked to go in.


Out of the 2 options originally posted...go with the 393 if you have the extra cash. If you want torque, that's the easiest way to get it, and you WILL get more torque even with bone stock 351 heads. Cubes = torque. Period.


If you want advice beyond the boundries you originally asked for, see my other posts in this thread, as you could get more for your money if you're open to suggestions.

/thread

 

[maxine-70]

thanks for putting it back on track. the only choices i am considering is a 351 with some decent pistons and a 393. the reasoning is price. the 351 option the only expense is nice pistons. the 393's only real expense is the crank, as regular hyper 302 pistons are part of the combo and damn cheap. so 300 on 351 nice pistons, or 300 on a 393 crank. you can see where im gonna end up, the 393, as all i really want is torque up to about 5500, beyond that, i dont care what the numbers are as i dont take it there. the car will never see the track or a street race, i just want torque to play with.

i dont know what heads i will end up with yet. I am going to accumulate the pieces for the short block, build it, then worry about the heads when i have the car all apart to be restored. it is an exceptionally nice 86 gt convertible with a tko 3550 and 3.90 gears. currently i have a 96 explorer engine in it, carbed. i put new rings and bearings in it, shaved the heads .030 and put new comp springs on them with a valve job and i pocket ported and blended them, but didnt open up the ports any, just cleaned them up. TFS stage 1 cam, stealth intake and 600 vac holley, durapsark distributor run by a GM hei module. it runs decent but lacks the torque i want.

i dont care how you price them, the 393 is the cheapest stroker for a 351, as you COULD run stock rods if you wanted (i wont). no 408-427 can do that, as youre looking at much pricier 6.00+ rods

 

[57fairlane]

Someone tell me the price difference between a 408 stroker kit and a 393 stroker kit please? My comments weren't based off of any imaginary budget...my car is primered dude..i'm not spending imaginary money. In fact my comments were based on getting the most out of your money, quite the opposite.

looks like about $1,000 based on those links you posted.

I bought my 84 351 block and "football rods" for $125 at the local motor junkyard.

I bought a SCAT crank and bearings for $250 shipped off ebay.

I bought a set of Probe PRS 302 pistons for $350 shipped off flatlanderracing.

ARP rod bolts - $60

Perfect circle moly rings - $30

Machine work came out to $900 for everything.

Standard oil pump/ARP oil pump driveshaft - $60

So thats $1,800 for the whole shortblock minus the cam/chain.

That motor made ~460rwhp with Victor Jrs, Victor intake, 650 race demon, a turbo grind solid roller, and a TKO (on pump gas, 9.5:1)

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Looks like 1957.99 and 1967.99 to me