IRS poll

[Mach460]

OK can you read you've name 3 cars with 4 cyclinder engines that get 35mpg NO POWER. I will run them and give you a block head start! These cars have no torque and can rely on a cheap front wheel drive type IRS unit. A 300 HP mustang isn't a Saturn, low end Grand Prix, or a Mazda 6. They are performance cars not ecom cars......

Please read what I've said before you repeat what I've already said what you can find in cheap IRS type cars. Those people are bragging about there MPG not how fast they can go or take a turn. Even on the twisties a GT would kill them because of absolutly no hp/torque.

And you're ignoring the one car that has the Mustang squarely in its sights. And it completely invalidates your argument.

The Nissan 350Z

Power: 285 hp
Torque: 275 ft-lb
Curb Weight: 3322 lbs
0-60 times: 5.4 seconds (C/D Test times)
6-Speed Gear box

MSRP 26,370 (from Nissan's website)

Hmmm....a car in the Mustang's price range....that has IRS (and a 6 speed to boot) that seems to handle the horsepower. Hmmmm...can't wait until the comparison tests.

 

[ttown]

And you're ignoring the one car that has the Mustang squarely in its sights. And it completely invalidates your argument.

The Nissan 350Z

Power: 285 hp
Torque: 275 ft-lb
Curb Weight: 3322 lbs
0-60 times: 5.4 seconds (C/D Test times)
6-Speed Gear box

MSRP 26,370 (from Nissan's website)

Hmmm....a car in the Mustang's price range....that has IRS (and a 6 speed to boot) that seems to handle the horsepower. Hmmmm...can't wait until the comparison tests.

No in fact I've already flat out owned one of those over 30k (Read the thread this is a repeat) cars with my little 22k GT. And 22k was what the GT's were selling before all the price breaks. A new one now is 20k or under.

Test drove one and wasn't impressed, has the power of the GT but the cost of a lot of cars. I ended up with the Mach that is now selling for 25k. The Mach I won't waste the gas on a car like that.

They do look nice though. But my best comparison is they are like the Fast and the Furious movies. All show and no go..... actually they aren't that bad but they are just about like a GT. If I'd would have to pick a car to compete with the GT it would be the 04 21k SRT4. It's the only car I've driven that may give the GT a "bang for the buck" run. But like the 350Z it's a driver race just a lot cheaper car.

 

[JaysGreenLX]

And you're ignoring the one car that has the Mustang squarely in its sights. And it completely invalidates your argument.

The Nissan 350Z

Power: 285 hp
Torque: 275 ft-lb
Curb Weight: 3322 lbs
0-60 times: 5.4 seconds (C/D Test times)
6-Speed Gear box

MSRP 26,370 (from Nissan's website)

Hmmm....a car in the Mustang's price range....that has IRS (and a 6 speed to boot) that seems to handle the horsepower. Hmmmm...can't wait until the comparison tests.

True true. I would certainly take a 350Z into twisties against a GT Mustang.

 

[ttown]

True true. I would certainly take a 350Z into twisties against a GT Mustang.

Ok everyone runs those "twisties" there very few road in America you can race on those type of roads and I've been East to West. In the East you have mainly 2 lane roads with traffice and in the West highway 1 would be ok in spots but your not going to be racing anyone just driving fast when you can.

If you run on public roads they will be scraping you off the highways in no times. If you go to the tracks thats one thing but dont think a solid axle can't run with those type cars with a few mods. We do it at Hallett raceway here all the time.

This is turning into a bunch of internet BS, you guys should make a fast and the furrious twisties movie.

 

[JaysGreenLX]

Ok everyone runs those "twisties" there very few road in America you can race on those type of roads and I've been East to West. In the East you have mainly 2 lane roads with traffice and in the West highway 1 would be ok in spots but your not going to be racing anyone just driving fast when you can.

If you run on public roads they will be scraping you off the highways in no times. If you go to the tracks thats one thing but dont think a solid axle can't run with those type cars with a few mods. We do it at Hallett raceway here all the time.

This is turning into a bunch of internet BS, you guys should make a fast and the furrious twisties movie.

I am talking about actual road racing. SCCA racing not street racing. Stock for stock the 350Z is superior. The 4x4 suspension on the GT isn't going to cut it.

 

[ttown]

I don't know anyone running SCCA races running a stock car. All the cars are modded to run the courses around here. There are a few that run stock but it's just for fun and they can't drive anyway so it doesn't matter what you bring. An SCCA driver will own you in any car just like the novice that goes to the drag strip, practice make perfect.

 

[66Satellite]

Yeah....you know..I have 1500 laying around the house and really want to mess up my warranty. It would have made it so much easier to make it part of my monthly payments. So yeah it's a pretty big deal. Plus...with a Mustang aftermarket heavily geared for the drag racing set...what are the chances of ever seeing the IRS in the aftermarket. Like we've been inundated with IRS for 79-04 Mustangs based on the Cobra IRS.

I guess I'm one of those weird guys who thinks if you can't afford to pay cash for a car you can't afford it. The only things I am willing to finance are things going up in value (like a house--buy the right house and it will go up in value faster than the interest rate you are paying, and then of course there's the nice tax break). This is why I've also mostly stuck to classics (Mopars in my case), which I always end up selling for more than I've paid, and durable daily drivers at or near the bottom of their depreciation curve. I'd be willing to buy a new or fairly new Mustang with the idea that I'd have it a very long time. I'm getting way off topic now, so regarding the second part of you post, my understanding is that the new Mustang was designed with IRS in mind, and that it will be a very easy bolt on, unlike the Fox body cars. And if you didn't want aftermarket parts and wanted to wait for factory parts, I'm sure you wouldn't have to wait long. I also doubt this would seriously mess with your warranty, but having no experience with cars under warranty I can't really say...

This has been a pretty cool thread. Kudos to everyone for keeping it friendly.

 

[66Satellite]

I am talking about actual road racing. SCCA racing not street racing. Stock for stock the 350Z is superior. The 4x4 suspension on the GT isn't going to cut it.

Pony cars will always lose out to pure sports cars like the Z car in the twisties, and to larger muscle cars at the drag strip, which can fit big blocks between their fenders. What the Mustang offers is a best of both worlds at a reasonable price. For the kind of thing you're talking about, if you like Ford, why not build yourself a Factory Five Cobra? Those are pretty cool and fast and affordable and I think you can build them with IRS.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/speccar/speckit.html

 

[Mach460]

I guess I'm one of those weird guys who thinks if you can't afford to pay cash for a car you can't afford it. The only things I am willing to finance are things going up in value (like a house--buy the right house and it will go up in value faster than the interest rate you are paying, and then of course there's the nice tax break). This is why I've also mostly stuck to classics (Mopars in my case), which I always end up selling for more than I've paid, and durable daily drivers at or near the bottom of their depreciation curve. I'd be willing to buy a new or fairly new Mustang with the idea that I'd have it a very long time. I'm getting way off topic now, so regarding the second part of you post, my understanding is that the new Mustang was designed with IRS in mind, and that it will be a very easy bolt on, unlike the Fox body cars. And if you didn't want aftermarket parts and wanted to wait for factory parts, I'm sure you wouldn't have to wait long. I also doubt this would seriously mess with your warranty, but having no experience with cars under warranty I can't really say...

This has been a pretty cool thread. Kudos to everyone for keeping it friendly.

Unfortunately..I'm not at a point in my life where I can afford to buy a car for straight up cash (except for my 1986 GT which I paid 2500 for....and talked the dealer into paying me 5000 as a trade in for my current 2000 GT).

I'm also, I'm not as confident as you are that Ford will make the IRS a GT option.

The thing is...it's not going to stop me from buying the new Mustang. I'll probably wait until 06 when my 2000 GT will have been fully paid off, and maybe I'll be in a position where I can afford a Cobra (or a Boss or Shelby or whatever comes down the pipe). I've driven Mustangs of various vintages for the last 15 years...it's not going to stop. I just feel the Mustang can be so much more, but still be the value leader. Like I said, I don't buy into the notion that the Mustang has to be limited because there's this unwarranted belief that things like IRS are going to somehow drive the price through the roof.

Remember all the teeth gnashing when the modular engines came on-line.....

 

[Stangbang]

I was hoping for a control blade IRS like the one in the Aussie Falcon.

It is cheap, light, and works amazingly well, my stock Focus handles incredibly well thanks to the use of it. Hopefully the special editions whether it's a Mach or a Boss will use it.

But I wouldn't damn the solid axle just yet, when I first heard about it I thought it was a mistake too, but after seeing that it is a proper torque arm/Panhard bar design I think it will work out just fine for the GT.

Remember who started selling aftermarket torque arm/Panhard bar rear suspensions for the Mustang? That's right, Griggs, and those cars handle right with some of the best handling cars in the world. And the set-up supposedly gives a better ride quality than stock Fox cars too. Getting rid of the bind inducing 4 link system and stiff springs needed to keep body roll in check.

So it looks like the 05 Gt will handle great, and ride better at the same time, making the IRS not as important for the GT imo. Also notice the springs ride directly on the axle, eliminating the leverage effect a control arm has on the spring, allowing Ford to use a lower rate spring to achieve the same stiffness as a heavier spring mounted on the control arms, which also contributes to a smoother ride.

And the front suspension finally uses coil over springs, and from what I've read, they copied the strut suspension from the M3. Fixing the nasty geometry problems of the 79-04 cars.

I just can't wait to go out and test drive one once they hit the lots next fall, should ride and handle incredibly well..

*cough*


People... Realize this, this car will NOT ride or handle like a Fox body, not only will it handle much better, it will also RIDE much better due the vastly increased body stiffness, near 50/50 weight distribution, and the superior suspension design.

Just think.. What is your memory of the best riding car you've ever been in? Most likely for everyone it's an old American boat from the 70's, not some little car with IRS, and guess what, all those boats had solid axle's. They were all leaf spring cars which don't have the horrible quadra bind rear suspension that the Fox body Mustangs have. Not to mention more weight over the rear axle, remember what happens to ride quality in an unloaded pick-up truck compared to when it's hauling a load? Ride quality goes out the window, it's the extra weight which smooths out the ride.

So just wait until they come out and you test drive them before you condemn them. I'd bet that most people here will be surprised at how nice they ride, along with the great handling. Now the rear axle can actually work, it can move up and down freely, without binding and becoming useless like it does on the Fox cars.

 

[Omegalock]

Yeah they are cheaper. You can pick up and 8.8 with gears for 300 bucks easy. Thats a lot better than forking over $1500+ to convert to IRS from a live axle.

You aren't getting this.
They add IRS to the car. It costs THEM 300 bucks. It costs the customer 1200 bucks. I don't want the IRS I have to rip it out and replace it $600 bucks right there. It's not better it's worse.

 

[jcayer]

Between the cost difference and track performance/ upgradeability (sp?)... Why pay more for "less"?? I am glad that they have the Solid axel... at least for what I want to do to the car...

 

[351CJ]

I guess I'm one of those weird guys who thinks if you can't afford to pay cash for a car you can't afford it. The only things I am willing to finance are things going up in value (like a house--buy the right house and it will go up in value faster than the interest rate you are paying, and then of course there's the nice tax break).

You just gave wome excellent advice 66Satellite.

At the risk of offending a bunch of StangNet-ers, I'll thow in some more advice:

About the only thing that is a worse investment than a new car, is spending money to modify your car.

But I doubt that many Mustang (or other sporty car owners) have ever thought about the long term financial ramifications of the money they spend on their cars.

 

[Mach460]

One thing I am curious about.....

Many those of us who wanted IRS in the Mustang will still buy the Mustang irregardless.. Is the opposite true.

I mean, do the people who are so adamant about the live axle, would they have not bought the car if the IRS was standard?

 

[ttown]

It's been fun guys, very good topic and some good points and I think everyone has said about all there is to say. But in closing here's my view.

If it's like the present IRS that had bad wheel hop on the 99/01 Cobra's and flat rips out the half shafts at WOT on the new cobra's.....NO

If they design a unit that doesn't have the wheel hop and won't take the half shafts out at WOT with the stock tires...Yes. Any car with DR's/slicks rather it be live axle or IRS will have to be upgraded in present form.

What will happen with me is wait and see. After 3 fox body GT's (82,87,02) I've moved up the food chain a little. I could have brought the Cobra easy and yes it has great power. I CHOOSE the Mach because I like NA cars in general and it won't self destruct (solid all around design + great looks). I tend to drive my cars 150k miles or so and hand them down to my kids

My choice in 07/08 will be the Cobra if the IRS is as solid as the vettes design probally. But if the make the v10 BOSS NA all bets are off. I can't wait to have that kind of problem

I just love this model: Good (GT joe publice), Better (mach/boss which type of racing), Best (Cobra/Ford GT). Not that's there much difference in better or best except what you want to do with the car and the HP and looks departments.

We have a line of Mustangs that span under 20k for a nice V6, mid 20's for the GT, 30's for the Boss/Mach (new one probally old cobra price point), low to mid 40k for the high end model with everything.

One thing for sure is we have it much better than the GM guys right now. I think dodge is looking at this model, their line could be SRT4 (low to mid 20's depending on stage), The Charger (upper 20's/low 30's), Viper (super car).

These are good times guys we are about to blow away the 60's in the next few year if something doesn't happen to stop it.

It's been fun

 

[66Satellite]

These are good times guys we are about to blow away the 60's in the next few year if something doesn't happen to stop it.

Very true. Detroit is finally starting to put out some really nice stuff again. And the used car market is gonna be incredible by 2010.

 

[fly2low]

I've made some observation here. I think we could roughly classify 3 different groups here.

1) Hardcore drag racers
2) People who want to get a bang-for-the-bucks performance car. No brand attachment and will just see what the market has to offer.
3) People who just want to get, well, a Mustang due to non-technical reasons such as styling or nostalgia or just simply a hardcore Mustang fan.

These 3 groups can argue until spitting blood and still won't get a conclusion. Why? because the definitions of "good" Mustang differ according to their different needs.

Well, Ford decided to put solid axle, anyway. So, group 1 is pretty much happy. Group 3 (I think) could care less and will just see how the overall package appears.

For those in group 2: This is a good time for you to shop around. Either you wait for the Cobra and test drive it, or you might want to test drive different cars withing your price range. If you are really into performance, test drive cars that fit into your criteria. Even the term "performance" varies from one to another. Some define it as 1/4 mile. Some need an autocross car. Some needs a track car. Some just need a freeway warrior, etc. Just do your "research" and target couple cars and do your test drive while waiting for the '05 Stang to come out.

Thanks for being civilized and being a good American neighbor in the discussions

 

[NicksGT]

It's been fun guys, very good topic and some good points and I think everyone has said about all there is to say. But in closing here's my view.

If it's like the present IRS that had bad wheel hop on the 99/01 Cobra's and flat rips out the half shafts at WOT on the new cobra's.....NO

If they design a unit that doesn't have the wheel hop and won't take the half shafts out at WOT with the stock tires...Yes. Any car with DR's/slicks rather it be live axle or IRS will have to be upgraded in present form.

What will happen with me is wait and see. After 3 fox body GT's (82,87,02) I've moved up the food chain a little. I could have brought the Cobra easy and yes it has great power. I CHOOSE the Mach because I like NA cars in general and it won't self destruct (solid all around design + great looks). I tend to drive my cars 150k miles or so and hand them down to my kids

My choice in 07/08 will be the Cobra if the IRS is as solid as the vettes design probally. But if the make the v10 BOSS NA all bets are off. I can't wait to have that kind of problem

I just love this model: Good (GT joe publice), Better (mach/boss which type of racing), Best (Cobra/Ford GT). Not that's there much difference in better or best except what you want to do with the car and the HP and looks departments.

We have a line of Mustangs that span under 20k for a nice V6, mid 20's for the GT, 30's for the Boss/Mach (new one probally old cobra price point), low to mid 40k for the high end model with everything.

One thing for sure is we have it much better than the GM guys right now. I think dodge is looking at this model, their line could be SRT4 (low to mid 20's depending on stage), The Charger (upper 20's/low 30's), Viper (super car).

These are good times guys we are about to blow away the 60's in the next few year if something doesn't happen to stop it.

It's been fun

Good discussion. Honestly, I would buy a '05 IRS or not. In my opinion, Ford is missing a market buy not making the IRS an option on the GT. Like I said before, I am a Mustang guy. I want nothing more than for me and my future kids to be talking about Mustangs when they start to drive. Hopefully, Ford has made the right decision, and the Mustang will live on.

 

[SportscarFan]

I am just wondering, if the new era of mustangs don't have IRS. What could I buy for less than $31,000 that has 2 doors, 4 seats, RWD, 4 wheel independent suspension, and more than 250 horsepower, with a sporting flair?

350Z is out. As much as I love sportscars, I am going to have to wait a long time to get another 2 seat car. (wife has a 99 Miata, which I incidently love to drive, and when it is paid for and out of warranty, it is getting a supercharger and a 6 speed. Already has a Torsen LSD and IRS from the factory for less than $22,000 when new. We bought it less than 2 years old for less than $17,000. Still has less than 30k miles. Handles AWESOME on 215/45 R16 summer tires)

So far the only new car I can think of is an RX8. Styling isn't my absolute favorite, but I like it ok. Sucks that the Mustang, which I have loved for years and years and years, is not going to fill the bill, even with the potential of this new car. I didn't expect the old car to handle, I knew it was nearly as old as I am. ( I am in my upper 20s) But this new car comes so close to the mark, but misses without the LSD and IRS options. I guess I will have to look for a used E36 M3 (older than I would like), or a bargain on a G35 coupe. 330ci sport is too "Luxo-cruiser" and not quite enough power, even though it is a very nice car. MB C-class coupe is just not doing it for me.

 

[shatner saves]

One thing I am curious about.....

Many those of us who wanted IRS in the Mustang will still buy the Mustang irregardless.. Is the opposite true.

I mean, do the people who are so adamant about the live axle, would they have not bought the car if the IRS was standard?

I can't be absolutely sure until I drive one, but, If I can't get IRS, I will be buying something else next year.

I agree with 66Satellite, cash for a car is the way to go. It will take me till spring/summer of 05 to afford my new car and I guarantee that it will not have SUV rear suspension in it.

Although, the new explorer has IRS in it....