Looking for input on an important decision with my '95 'vert... LONG

[Killercanary]

As many of you know I bought a PTK turbo kit for my car a number of years go. It was a top notch kit complete with a swain coated hot side, a turbosmart e-boost controller, and a T64e turbo. I then got busy and built my 331ci dart block as the foundation for this. Since then I added better heads, an AEM stand alone, 6 pt roll bar, etc which are all things I deemed necessary prior to installing the turbo kit. I also picked up a T76 turbo along the way too as I thought the T64e may be on the small side for this combo. Since then the car has run so well NA that I haven't had much desire to complicate things with the turbo install. It has run a 11.5 at 121mph. BUT... I'm bored with it and I want a power adder on my car to take advantage of the $5K shortblock under its hood. Now for my dilemma.

-I will not put a cage in this car which is something required in 'verts at 10.99 ET.

-I only want a car that'll trap 130mph. Those that say this isn't enough are nuts. My car is a street/strip/show car and 130 is PLENTY fast and is more than enough to compete with 99% of non-track only cars.

-Cost to install turbo kit. One would think that since I own almost every piece of the turbo build puzzle that it'd be an easy and relatively inexpensive swap. I figure I'll need >$3000 to put the turbo on. In my car the power level will be through the roof with the turbo and as such I'll need a new fuel tank, pump, lines, rails, regulator, etc. I'll also need larger injectors (I'm leaning toward high impedance 80's). I need to swap my 4.10 gears for either 3.27's or 3.31's. I'll need a new cam, lifters, and possibly pushrods. I may also need to pay for a tune. Although I feel confident tuning with the AEM, I don't feel confident using my car as a guinea pig to tune a 700+hp forced induction monster.


This brings me to my dilemma. I own almost everything needed to install the turbo kit, and a turbo mustang is something I've always wanted, but the funds needed to complete the install to my liking and the power output I'll likely see from it are both too much. I don't want a 700hp car as I don't want to start breaking everything else on the car that I have already upgraded. Since my goal is 10.99/130mph, I don't need all of this power. I could put the T64e on and it'd help me, but I don't like that idea.

I recently spoke to a friend that is going to be selling an S trim with low miles on it. My thought was to possible sell the turbo kit, send the S trim to vortech to have the Si upgrade done, and put it on the car. i can then pulley it for however many lbs of boost it'll take to hit my goals, it is a much simpler installation, and ultimately it'll be a lot cheaper as I could leave the cam be for now and only swap the gears. I also think that if I keep it an S trim for the time being and run 6lbs or so of boost that the car's factory fuel tank, lines, and rails would be OK. I'd still need injectors, but I have a HP walbro 255 intank in the cobra that I could put into the 'vert. This would hopefully get me into low 500ish RWHP and be in the safe zone without having to upgrade the entire fuel system. I'm really leaning this way right now if the S trim can be had reasonably.

WHat are your thoughts? Having two cars has also been a factor in this. if I only had the one then I could more easily swing the $3K to install the turbo, but since I have another money pit I can not afford to do it anytime soon.

 

[fiveoho]

i know a milllion people do it and im sure its fine and there will prob not ever be a problem, but gosh it would make me nervous to have a charger on a motor that expensive that wasnt self contained.

 

[ProKiller]

that self contained argument always makes me laugh. it just makes install easier not any more or less safe. and the motor is built to hold that kind of power, I would be more concerned if it was a stock block not a monster dart that Paul has. I'm actually more scared of the self contained units because its just another oil you have to change and constantly check. I know my V2 is perfectly fine cause I change my engine oil regularly and check it frequently.

You never actually said what your goals are Paul other than the 130 trap. I assume you want the same street manners it already exhibits but with more power. With your combo and 6ish pounds you should easily hit the 500+ mark. I would say to go with the 60# injectors at the bare minimum and a boost-a-pump with the 255 you have and you should be good. The stock rails shouldn't give you any problems with that or the lines. I think the real problem comes into the cage. If you put either a turbo or a blower on the car you'll be in the 10s which will need a cage. I know you're a regular at the autocross tracks now, but I can't see you not hitting up the 1/4 with the new power adder and you'd probably get kicked out after your first run.

You could probably sell the turbo kit or even do a direct swap out for a vortech kit. a lot of guys are willing to upgrade to a turbo after sporting the s-trim for years, me being one of them....

you can call me at work tonight if you want to bounce ideas around. ext 270.

 

[revhead347]

I agree with ProKiller on the blower. I don't see any advantage to the self contained design.

As for the other stuff, it's hard for me to give you a recommendation when I'm not the one that has to spend the money, or take the risk.

Kurt

 

[BlackVert]

as you have said, you are very close to your goal already. i agree that the turbo would blow the doors off your goal of a 130 trap speed.

since you do not want to have a cage, then i don't see a reason for the turbo. so i think selling the turbo and pullying a vortech to control your results is a good approach.

 

[Dan95-5.0]

if you send the vortech back for the Si upgrade, they dont turn it into a self contained unit. they just upgrade the internals like impeller.

like it was already stated, you could find someone to swap kits with. I read over at corral from Bob Kurgan that the 255 hi-pressure intank pump quits out after 550rwhp

if you just want to hit 130mph, is nitrous an option?

but like you said in your post

a turbo mustang is something I've always wanted

maybe you answered your own question????

good luck with your decision which ever it may be

 

[4Jenna]

Turbo and coast to 130

 

[Black95GTS]

I had this nice, sensitive, and understanding reply written but I have changed my mind.

Don't puss out.

Adam

 

[Blackened302]

considering you have a sweet engine setup in the vert, have you considered leaving it as-is and installing the turbo kit on the cobra w/the smaller turbo until you can build another block for it?

 

[earleys94gt]

You wanted a turbo car, go for the turbo car.

 

[JJ95GTID]

considering you have a sweet engine setup in the vert, have you considered leaving it as-is and installing the turbo kit on the cobra w/the smaller turbo until you can build another block for it?

This is more the way I am thinking

I would make your 'vert, that is already show and street, a little less strip by swapping engines with the Cobra.

Put the turbo on the Dart block like you intended to do

Then, make the Cobra your Street/Strip/AutoX car with the turbo'd Dart

 

[Black Stampede]

Although I can see where you are finding positives in the Vortech idea I think you should still stick with the turbo. Like others have said it's something you have always wanted and completing it truly would make an end all combo that you would never wanna upgrade. As for the cost, this car is going to be with you for the rest of your life I am assuming so 3 grand with that in mind doesn't seem so crazy. Stick with the plan. You don't have to run insane amounts of boost, but stick with the turbo.

 

[95opal]

Sell the dam turbo and slap the s trim on its a no brainer lolol or just up the compression and go with a beefier bumpstick and do it NA........

 

[Rick 91GT]

Turbo, Turbo, Turbo

 

[HankyGT]

While I don't welcome the idea of full halo'd cages in a street car as it's like getting into a wreck inside a jungle gym if you are not wearing a helmet; if you DO plan to compete on the track you would think you would welcome the idea of a cage as that car is going to be traveling in the 140 zone trap wise with a turbo. You will be one paralyzed or dead SOB if that ever gets loose on you on the big end, which turbo cars like to do.

Personally spending 5k+ on a Dart shortblock and not using it is kinda lame. Most people want that shortblock in fears of what their factory one is going to do (duh) and it's a huge stepping stone cost wise. If 500rwhp was your goal it couldve been attained with some boost on a relatively stock combo displacement wise and some boost. Granted it's expensive peice of mind for the Dart, but that's out of the way now. I sure wouldn't want to spend an asston of money on a block to not use it.

As far as supporting stuff goes, you will have to expect these things at the levels you are at. You can't make 700+rwhp and not expect to have to step up the game. But if you want to be a badass and 'that guy' it's something you will have to deal with. You seem to like your car alot and plan to keep it forever so perhaps it's easier to justify cost. I already know I don't want to keep mine and I'd sell it this week if I could, so there's that difference too.

Frankly, I would just sell all my turbo stuff and slap a 75 shot on your current combo. You'll hit your #, not have to wuss out on a cage/supporting and save ALOT of money. That's IF you are dead set on taking a very expensive route to attain a HP # that's not exactly out of this world or even all that high by today's standards. The vortech thing is laughable on not thinking you'll pick up alot of power, nor the self contained arguement....

cliffs: go big or go home.