maf's and hp/flow

blksn955.o

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Mar 15, 2002
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"The following link will tell you the HP that a flow number can give. Just simply stating a flow number is not enough. It has to work with AFR to determine HP."-86gt/Clint

http://www.stealth316.com/2-air-fuel-flow.htm

some of the flow numbers on the maftransfer -from clints EA program and others.

---FOR QUICK REFERENCE---

MAF ------------- volt. ------------------ flow kg/hr
03 cobra ------- 4.7961 -------------- 1528.076
------------------- 5.0046 -------------- 1740.758

w4h0 ----------- 4.75 ----------------- 802.15
--------------------5 ---------------------924.73
ex.--------------------------------------------------------4.8974--805.091kg/hr--293 hp N/A

j4j1 --------------4.6001 -------------- 711.62
--------------------5 ----------------------875.07

frpp 70mm------4.7678 --------------1319.515
------------------- 5 ---------------------1540.121

99GT ------------ 4.75 ---------------- 1080
------------------- 5.00 ---------------- 1170.6
ex.--------------------------------------------------------400hp seems to be the limit N/A

01cobra---------4.7019---------------1056.3
--------------------5.0-------------------1325.6

96cobra----------4.3988--------------802.89
--------------------5.0-------------------1136.7

98gt--------------4.7019---------------988.94
--------------------5.0--------------------1201.7

90mm LMAF----------------------------
ex.--------------------------------------------------------1425kg/hr--403 hp S/C

C&L73-----------------------------------
ex.--------------------------------------------------------0780kg/hr--310 hp N/A

C&L76-----------------------------------
ex.--------------------------------------------------------1529kg/hr--408/388

pro-M 80mm-----------------------------
ex.1--------------------------------------------------------4.1--920kg/hr (final5.0)
ex2-----------------4.7----------1283.4146
---------------------5.0----------1497.12------------450rwhp rich cal. 42's boost w/o fmu (starman)


---detail look at the stock MAF's-------------------------------------------------------------------

The whole MAFtransfer from tweecer- x=volts, y=kg/hr

94-95 GT W4H0 processor, CBAZA family-

x--0----------0------0-------.3999---.6001----.75--------1---------1.2--------1.3-----1.5------1.6001--1.8------1.8999-----2-------2.1001----2.2-----2.3999--2.6001--2.8--------3---------3.2-----3.3999--3.6001--3.8-------4--------4.25-----4.5-------4.75-------5-------16
y--8.801--8.801--8.801--10.373--15.087--19.802--29.232--38.976--44.634--57.521--64.75---81.409--90.525--100.58--111.27--122.59--148.05--176.96--209.97--247.06--288.55--334.44--386.3--443.19--506.06--593.75--692.14--802.15--924.73--924.73

1998 GT DBZ2 processor, CRAI8 family-

x--0----------0--------0------0------0-------.49853--.60117--.69892--.80156--1.002--1.0997--1.3001--1.5005--1.7009--1.7986--1.9013--1.999---2.1994--2.3998--2.6002--2.8006--3.001----3.2014--3.4018--3.6999--3.998---4.3011--4.7019--5.0000--5.0048
y--9.409--9.409--9.409--9.409--9.409--9.409--11.72--14.691--18.158--26.906--32.189--44.734--58.435--73.786--83.691--94.585--107.46--135.69--167.38--202.38--247.11--293.83--349.45--411.19--521.13--645.09--783.42--988.94--1201.7--1201.7

2000gt JRX0 processor, CVAF1 family-

x--0--------.61095--.73314--.8533---.97752---1.0997--1.2219--1.3441--1.4663--1.5885--1.7107--1.8328--1.955---2.0772--2.1994--2.3216--2.4438--2.566--2.6882--2.8104--2.9326--3.0547--3.1769--3.2991--3.4214--3.5435--3.6657--3.9101---5.000--5.0048
y-10.561--10.561--17.351--20.368--25.837--30.741--37.153--44.508--52.806--62.424--73.174--85.244--98.634--113.72--130.32--148.61--168.6--190.67--216.32--243.85--272.52--301.94--341.92--375.11--414.53--455.83--500.53--591.62--1170.6--1170.6

94-95 cobra J4J1 processor, CBAZA family-

x--0-------0.5-----0.6001--0.80005--0.8999---1---------1.2------1.3-------1.3999---1.5------1.6001---1.7------1.8------1.8999----2--------2.1001--2.2-------2.3-----2.3999--2.5------2.7------2.8999--3.1001--3.3-------3.5-------3.8-------4.2------4.6001---5--------16
y-11.63--11.63--14.459--21.06-----24.831---28.918--38.662--44.005--49.977--56.578--63.807--71.665--80.152--89.267--99.326--110.01--121.33--133.9--147.1--161.88--193.94--228.83--268.12--311.49--395.58--440.05--564.21--711.62--875.05--875.05


96-98 cobra LLX3 processor, CDAN4 family-

x-0-0-0-0-.53763--.75269--.89932--1.002--1.2023--1.5005--1.6031--1.7009--1.8035--1.9013--2.0039--2.1017--2.2043--2.4047--2.6002--2.8006--3.001----3.2014--3.4018--3.6022--3.8025--4.0029--4.2522--4.3988----5-------5.0048
y-0-0-0-0-10.609--16.55-----22.35--27.583--38.9----58.986--69.312--78.79---88.267---99.3----111.89--125.33--139.19--171.16---204.26--247.12--295.78--351.09--413.19--477.12--550.68--622.54--731.03--802.89--1136.7--1136.7

01 cobra MSE3 processor, RUAF2 family-

x----0--------0----------0------.49853--.69892--.80156--.89932--1.002--1.0997--1.1975--1.3001--1.3978--1.5982--1.7009--1.7986--1.9013--1.999---2.1994--2.3998--2.6002--2.8006--3.001----3.2014--3.4018--3.6999--3.998---4.3011--4.7019----5-------5.0048
y-7.9209--7.9209--7.9209--7.9209--14.71---17.539----21.5---26.026--31.684--38.85--45.451--53.183--70.722--78.643--88.073--101.65--111.65--140.31--177.47--221.22--267.42--322.87--384.54--451.11--560.88--684.03--839.99--1056.3--1325.6--1325.6

03 cobra-note-only has 29pts at this time

x-0.07153--0.54639--0.68042--0.79224--0.97144--1.1191--1.2439--1.3523--1.4419--1.6235--1.7805--1.9221--2.0461--2.1582--2.2493--2.3389--2.4243--2.5715--2.6687--2.8081--3.0776--3.3171--3.4253--3.718----4.0525--4.199---4.4597--4.7961--5.0046
y---0---------10.058----15.087---19.802----29.546---39.604--49.663--59.407--69.151--89.267--109.7----130.13--149.93--170.05--189.85--208.08--226.94--266.23--295.78--343.55--442.25--542.52--594.07--745.57--942.96--1040.4--1234.3--1515.3--1726.3

---aftermarket maf transfers----------------------------------

Pro-m 80mm---blower combo, 42lb inj., no fmu, richer cal for boost--made mid 400rwhp**note 29pt**

x-0.034---0.172----0.344-----0.516-----0.688------0.859-----1.031-----1.203----1.375-----1.547-------1.719------1.891-------2.063------2.235-------2.406-------2.578-------2.75---------2.922-------3.094-------3.266----3.438-------3.61--------3.781--------3.953------4.125-------4.297-------4.469---------4.7------------5
y--0-------6.6563--14.3059--23.0312--32.9538--44.2762--57.2623--72.2201--89.486--109.4412--132.3833--158.6853--188.6789--222.6748--260.9583--303.7874--351.3925--403.9777--461.7247--524.798--593.3524--667.5422--747.5323--833.5118--925.7081--1024.405--1129.9606--1283.4146--1497.12
 
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attached is a graph of the 94-95gt, 94-95cobra, 96cobra, 98gt, 00gt, and 01 cobra maftransfer. It is based on the kg/hr of flow. I hope to add a x and y table for ease of reading soon as well as add the 03 cobra and Lmaf flow to the graph.
 

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blksn955.o said:
I have been thinking and going over what stock MAF I am going to run. This may make a good sticky for ref.


I was thinking what stock mafs, with focus on the larger stock 4.6 sohc and dohc mafs, are good for what hp/flow for use with what combos.

Now yes it is easier to just say get a LMAF/03-04 cobra MAF, but what about people who are just at the 300-350 and 350-400 hp range who COULD possibly use one of the stockers from other years?

I have been thinking of getting a Lmaf but at the same time looking at 96-01 cobras and 99-04 GT's and wanting to see what hp levels they are good for.

Now the reason is totaly one of "thrift" and useable transfer/curve. I am thinking stock 99-04GT, and stock 96-01 cobra mafs are prob. alittle more avail. and prob. not much $$$.

So basicly what size and limits for what cars?

96-98 GT mafs....?

96-98 Cobra mafs....?

99-04 GT mafs....?

99,01 cobra mafs....?

mach1 mafs....?

I can look at some programs I have to get the flow/transfers but it would be good to see what people have found out to be the HP limit before pegging or at what hp they do peg at.

if others want to add aftermarket MAFs that would be a good addition IMHO to the topic and information to all be in one spot.

Thanks guys.


Seems to me the sig combo would not use but about 50 to 60% of a Lightning curve :shrug:

That would not be as accurate as one that used more of the curve if you ask me :shrug:

Grady
 
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that is why I am thinking one of the larger 4.6 stock mafs but not the LMAF may be a better option.

The 99+ GT maf has a good bit more airflow over the 94-95 maf, 250-300 more with the 99maf may be a better fit.

I want to look at the 96-98 4v mafs max airflow still though.
 
blksn955.o said:
90mm LMAF.......1425kg/hr at 403 hp S/C

C&L73...............0780kg/hr at 310 hp N/A

from 86gt/clint

The kg/hr seemed low to me when I first saw it.

I looked at one of my old dlogs and

WOT@6100 rpm I showed about

4.1 maf volts
920 kg/hr

Yet

I only put down 293 hp

Thoughts or Comments :shrug:

Grady
 
Well, it is a C&L73 meter and not a stock maf housing.

I wonder if since the C&L fools the eec with the sample tube if the log shows a squed number:shrug:

I was thinking the same thing...

WOW 4.1 at 920, you got within 4 of the total flow .899 volts before the max volts.
 
blksn955.o said:
Well, it is a C&L73 meter and not a stock maf housing.

I wonder if since the C&L fools the eec with the sample tube if the log shows a squed number:shrug:

I was thinking the same thing...

WOW 4.1 at 920, you got within 4 of the total flow .899 volts before the max volts.

The above data was with my current ProM 80 meter and 65 tb.

When I was running the stock maf & tb the maf volts were at 4.9xx something and I forget the kg/hr.

I'm not sure the peak kg/hr values we see in our dlogs mean a whole lot when we compare them to each other's combos. If you're too fat on the highend, those values are gonna be inflated. Fuel table settings, high speed enrichment, and the like can effect those values.

What were your thoughts when you said

"WOW 4.1 at 920, you got within 4 of the total flow .899 volts before the max volts"?

Grady
 
I thought that was the hp and stock maf.

Yes, the maf can get inflated I am just looking to get some kind of list that would be a rough est. of flow and what hp people have been able to get out of that maf.

Another thing I was thinking about as far as the 73C&L flow being low for the power...it was from clint(EA guy), and maybe he used his hp est. tab in EA to calc. the hp...if so then that would be more than likely flywheel hp and that 310 would be like what 245-265 rwhp? I need to ask him to make it clear.
 
blksn955.o said:
I thought that was the hp and stock maf.

Yes, the maf can get inflated I am just looking to get some kind of list that would be a rough est. of flow and what hp people have been able to get out of that maf.

Another thing I was thinking about as far as the 73C&L flow being low for the power...it was from clint(EA guy), and maybe he used his hp est. tab in EA to calc. the hp...if so then that would be more than likely flywheel hp and that 310 would be like what 245-265 rwhp? I need to ask him to make it clear.

I was not thinking too clear I guess :bang:

You are right ablout Clint most likely using fwhp :)

I did search out a very old 2nd gear blast to give you an idea about air flow when I was using the stock stuff.

WOT@6275 rpm I showed

805.091 kg/hr
4.8974 maf volts

Hope that can be of some help to you :D

Grady
 
cool, I will add that info to the list. You dont happen to remember your HP with the stock setup do you?

I just asked clint on the "new" eec forum about the numbers...he said that it was with EA, but that he put down 306 on the dyno...:shrug: . I am asking to see if he has an idea on why the kg/hr are so low for the power he is making.
 
blksn955.o said:
cool, I will add that info to the list. You dont happen to remember your HP with the stock setup do you?

I just asked clint on the "new" eec forum about the numbers...he said that it was with EA, but that he put down 306 on the dyno...:shrug: . I am asking to see if he has an idea on why the kg/hr are so low for the power he is making.

Those last values were from the sig combo just as you now see it.

I do wanna point out I had raised the maf voltage value to 4.9999 volts with the scalar.

The other values were from the same sig combo but with the larger maf/tb.

Grady
 
Greg

I feel I was somewhat confusing about how I gave you the data and I'll try and clear it up ...... I hope :rlaugh:

The ProM80 data I gave you is as follows:

4.1 maf volts will give a reading of 920kg/hr with the parts in the sig combo.

There are three exceptions to that data from the sig when talking about the above data.

1) The tb was upgraded from stock to FRPP 65mm
2) The maf was upgraded from stock to ProM 80mm
3) The sig rw hp/tq numbers don't reflect the upgraded tb & maf.

I feel the larger tb & maf might be worth 10 to 15rwhp but I have no hard data so that is just a guess :shrug:

Another thing worth noting here is that Maf is able to deal with more air flow which is obvious considering the maf voltage given is only 4.1 for the kg/hr value stated above. That value was given simply because, that is all the air flow my na combo will produce :)

Grady
 
oh, ok so the hp data given was from the stock MAF and T-body.

the data given was a volt. and kg/hr reading off your new MAF but you dont have any hp numbers yet with that new combo of MAF and T-body.

I thought you had a 70mm throt.? I have been planning on getting a 65-70 polished t-body along with whatever stock 4.6 MAF I end up with to complete the combo. 65mm being able to be had from FRPP that comes with all new sensors has been very tempting, and 70 as a close second.

Thanks for the input Grady, I hope this info can be good for showing people the diff. in curvs, and flow. The biggest reason I added the whole maftransfer is I really have not seen them listed together and find myself loading and unloading diff. programs when I want to look and compare them. I fig. this topic would be the best place to just put all that number mumbo-jumbo.
 
blksn955.o said:
oh, ok so the hp data given was from the stock MAF and T-body.

Correct :nice: Just as the sig reads :)

the data given was a volt. and kg/hr reading off your new MAF but you dont have any hp numbers yet with that new combo of MAF and T-body.

Correct again :nice:

I thought you had a 70mm throt.? I have been planning on getting a 65-70 polished t-body along with whatever stock 4.6 MAF I end up with to complete the combo. 65mm being able to be had from FRPP that comes with all new sensors has been very tempting, and 70 as a close second.

Yes it is a 65mm tb from Ford. I got it WAY before everybody had jumped on the bigger is better bandwagon...... that is everybody except Mike :rlaugh:
These days I would have to say ...... I'd go bigger.

The fox tb conversion is still unproven to flow better ...... to me that is ...... but that is another story ;)

Thanks for the input Grady, I hope this info can be good for showing people the diff. in curvs, and flow. The biggest reason I added the whole maftransfer is I really have not seen them listed together and find myself loading and unloading diff. programs when I want to look and compare them. I fig. this topic would be the best place to just put all that number mumbo-jumbo.

Your quite welcome Greg :D

Again, sorry I presented things in a mixed up kinda way :(

The info you have gathered up here is just great :hail2:

Many members will benefit from it :banana:

Grady
 
yeah, what I have seen about the 70mm t-body "looks" nice and would be as large as I would go, the FRPP 65 is just a great deal with installed sensors though. I am tore between the two 65mm FRPP, or edlb. polished 70mm.

I too am not sold on the fox swap, other than it looks better/cleaner. If not for the fact most people change the size from the stocker from what I have seen and that makes it a hard comparo deal for me. I was realy wanting to give it a try stock for stock but my explorer intake is a non-internal EGR model and I want to keep the EGR so that is not a direction I want to go at all now.

Thanks for compliments on the topic, I hope to add the cobra transfers in the next day or so, I have been tossing around the idea of making a graph/table in excell or something to give alittle better visual without the scroll(sp?) that messes up the page copy/screen copy/whatever its called of the tweecer software to get all the info in the transfer.
 
blksn955.o said:
I hope to add the cobra transfers in the next day or so, I have been tossing around the idea of making a graph/table in excell or something to give alittle better visual without the scroll(sp?) that messes up the page copy/screen copy/whatever its called of the tweecer software to get all the info in the transfer.

I do understand what your saying :D

Those screen shots are more work than one would first think until you post up a few of them :fuss:

If you wanna put up the whole curve, you gotta combine several shots and that is just too much work with the edit process of crop, combine several into one, and yada, yada, yada :nono:

Grady