Need Help With The Timing Chain

[gnx547]

I have a crane cam and I need to know which timing chain is the correct one? I bought the Cloyes 9145 and that did not fit, the teeth pitch is 1/4 and not 3/8. So I bought the Cloyes C163 and the chain fits the sprockets. I tried installing the chain together with the cam and crank sprocket and cam pin is in the hole of the sprocket and I can't get the cam gear to fit flush so I can put the bolt in. I don't know why it won't fit? I don't want to force it on and should it fit like a glove? I compared the chain to one that came off the car and it looks the same. Why won't this timing chain fit? Do I have the correct timing chain? On Rock Auto here are all the chains that are available and there is also a Cloyes C370 chain but I don't know the difference between the other ones. Which chain will fit?


CLOYES Part # C163 High Performance
View attachment 128765 View attachment 128766 Links: 58; Pitch: 3/8 in.; Rollers: Double; Double Roller; For Non-Factory Roller Cam; Heavy Duty Timing Chain; SVT Cobra; GT Model View attachment 128767 $10.59

CLOYES Part # 9145 High Performance View attachment 128768
View attachment 128769 View attachment 128770 Links: 58; Pitch: 1/4 in.; Rollers: Double; Double Roller; Street True Roller Timing Chain; SVT Cobra; GT Model (Only 3 Remaining) View attachment 128771 $14.41

CLOYES Part # C356
View attachment 128772 View attachment 128773 Links: 58; Pitch: 3/8 in.; Plates: 9; Silent Type Chain; GT Model View attachment 128774 $15.19

SEALED POWER Part # 222163
View attachment 128775 View attachment 128776 Double rlr.; 58 Links $17.19

CLEVITE / PERFECT CIRCLE Part # 9370
View attachment 128777 View attachment 128778 From 7/26/94;Silent Type

$23.79

SEALED POWER Part # 222370 View attachment 128780
View attachment 128781 View attachment 128782 Silent type; 58 Links $23.79

CLOYES Part # 9130 High Performance
View attachment 128783 View attachment 128784 Links: 58; Pitch: 3/8 in.; Rollers: Double; Double Roller; For Non-Factory Roller Cam; Hex-A-Just/original True Roller Timing Chain; SVT Cobra; GT Model

 

[RangerJoe]

Can you take a picture of the gear not sitting flush. If I remember correctly, I don't believe the cam snout comes out even with the sprocket. I may be wrong about this, I haven't done a cam install in about a year.

Joe

 

[gnx547]

Here are some pics. As you can see in the pic, the cam sprocket won't go in any further. The cam pin is lined up properly and I put some light force on it and it won't in any further. The old chain goes in nice and easy, but of coarse it is a little stretched out. If I remove the crank gear, the cam gear sprocket lines up nice and flush, but if I put both cam and crank gear on the same time, the cam sprocket won't line up. Do you think I have the correct timing chain? Since the timing chain is new, does it need to be lightly tapped with a soft hammer? Any ideas?

 

[RangerJoe]

So, it appears as if the chain is not long enough to allow the sprocket to slide onto the cam? Or is it that the sprocket will just not slide all the way back? I assume you have applied oil or assembly lube to the crank and cam to assist in sliding them on? Again, if I remember correctly, there isn't a lot of extra slack. If both sprockets are not just so, they won't slide on. I agree with you, if they don't pop on with a slight tap of a rubber mallet, don't force it.

Joe

 

[gnx547]

Yes, it seems like the chain is not long enough, if it had a few more links on it it would fit nice. And yes also the cam sprocket won't slide all the way back and I did put some light oil on it. This C163 chain is the for the 5.0 Mustang but I don't understand why it does not fit? Guess, I will have to buy another timing chain and see if it will fit. Maybe the 9130 will fit?

 

[RangerJoe]

Mine is a melling, and fit fine. At this point, i think i would consider going with a ford piece, at least you know it will fit.

Joe

 

[gnx547]

By chance do you know the melling part number?

 

[RangerJoe]

I sure don't man. Its three years old now, not sure where I even bought it from. I thought I got it at the local parts store, but it doesn't look like AutoZone carries Melling, or at least they don't at this time. However, I did notice they have two chains listed under the C163 part number. One of them says "for non factory roller cam". Not sure what the differences are, but you may want to dig around a little deeper. You may in fact have the wrong chain.

Here is the link:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1993-Ford-Mustang/Timing-Chain/_/N-izpyuZ8znay

Joe

 

[RangerJoe]

I think you already said this, but are you sliding both the crank gear and the cam gear on at the same time, or are you trying to do the crank gear first then the cam gear? You will have to slide them on somewhat at the same time to ensure nothing binds. Forgive me for asking if you have already tried this.

Joe

 

[gnx547]

Yes, I'm sliding both the crank and cam gear on at the same time. I can try putting on the crank gear first and see if that will work, but I think it will be the same.

 

[legalize420]

i just installed my new chain and had problems as well. it did not really just slide on. it was really tight and i was having the same problem getting the cam gear to line up after sliding everything on. with a little wiggle back and forth on the cam gear it will walk its way in there. trying moving the crank gear back and forth a little bit also it should slide in

 

[gnx547]

I will try that. Did you install the cam and crank gear on the same time?

 

[gnx547]

Today, I tried wiggling the crank gear back and forth while pushing on the cam gear and still does not go through. Then I put the crank gear on first then the chain along with the cam gear and still it won't go in. I'm pushing and wiggling and nothing. I'm going to buy a few other timing chains and see if they will fit..

I sure don't man. Its three years old now, not sure where I even bought it from. I thought I got it at the local parts store, but it doesn't look like AutoZone carries Melling, or at least they don't at this time. However, I did notice they have two chains listed under the C163 part number. One of them says "for non factory roller cam". Not sure what the differences are, but you may want to dig around a little deeper. You may in fact have the wrong chain.

Here is the link:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1993-Ford-Mustang/Timing-Chain/_/N-izpyuZ8znay

Joe

The C361 chain has 68 links which seems longer than the one I bought. I don't know if that is a double roller chain. Are all oem 5.0 factory timing chains all double roller?

 

[gnx547]

I also compared the old chain to the c163 chain and both are the same size. I'm thinking since the chain is new and tight that maybe it needs to be tapped with a soft hammer? What do you guys think of that?

 

[RangerJoe]

I don't want to be the one to tell you to hit it with a hammer, then you come back on here and be mad at me when you damage your crank or camshaft . We aren't there in person and can't handle or see whats going on. I don't know what else to recommend at this point.

Joe

 

[RangerJoe]

Alright, one last suggestion. Put plently of assembly lube on the crank and camshaft. Put the entire timing set, sprockets and chain, in the ove on about 300 degrees. Let it heat for about 20-30 minutes. Use gloves to protect yourself from getting burned. Take the timing set out and try to install it right away. If it does go on, let it cool and then check the tension. Make sure that it is not overly tight and isn't going to come to pieces the first time the engine revs up.

DISCLAIMER: I have never actually done this before. I have used heat to help fitment or release on other metal parts. This was only something I thought about while racking my brain over this. You may want to ask around before trying it. I cannot think of any harm that it would cause, but I am not expert. I would imagine the thing gets that hot under normal operation as it is.

Joe

 

[gnx547]

I finally got it in! I lined it up as seen in my first pic and lightly tapped it with a soft hammer a few times and it went in. Before I tighten the bolt...How do the timing marks look? Am I off a tooth?

 

[RangerJoe]

Man, glad you got it worked out! Its not perfectly dot to dot(just based on looks of it) but i bet thats a close as it will get. Glad you got it worked out.

 

[gnx547]

How about now? I moved it a tooth over.

 

[RangerJoe]

I'd say that looks pretty dang good!

Joe