%$#@*&^%%$#$# OIL COMPAINIES

[StangDreamin']

I like to consider myself a tree hugger, but some of the stuff my fellow environmentalist wackos pull is pretty stupid.

You must not know the half of it!

They just put up a wind generator in the city limits here. I was shocked. They need more. Lots more.

One of the points you aren't aware of is that "thoughtful envornmentalists" are firmly against wind farms; because "...thousands of spinning windmill blades have the potential to chop defenseless flocks of birds into so much bloody confetti." I'll have to Google up the original source of that quote - it was in a news magazine article somewhere.

What do you guys think about building nuclear plants? How about nuclear powered cars?

Man, you are kidding, right? Haven't you heard the stories about three-eyed Bambi's and two-headed bunny rabbits found downstream from nuclear plants???? To hear the enviros tell of it; you can see more wildlife in the nighttime woods than in the day; because they all glow in the dark!

If you listen to them long enough, you'll realize we should all bury our cars in the ground (Oh, wait a minute; that would be pollution...) and walk around eating tree bark (Whoops, that might lead to toal annihillation of the rain forests) and drinking muddy river water (Watch where the by-product of your dysentery fouls the ground!) while wearing "non animal-based" clothing (Oh, and synthetics are bad, 'cause oil is causing all the greenhouse gases on the planet).

I guess the only way we're going to not damage mother nature is to pack ourselves away in rockets and fly off the planet! But that's not gonna happen 'til somebody develops rocket fuel that doesn't produce CFC chains as it is expended. Ya' know, CFC's are the chemicals that cause the ozone layer to disappear; which in turn cuases Bambi, Rocky, Bullwinkle and all the other helpless wildlife to get horrendous sunburns!

You may think I'm environmentally unfriendly; but that's not true. Very few things I like better than to pack myself off to sleep under the stars for a couple-three nights at a time. And I'm aware of how we must respect that priviledge and treat our surroundings with similar respect. But, Jeeze, I gotta live here on this planet to!

 

[rbohm]

There you go again.

sorry

 

[jikelly]

So the wind generators are ugly and some birds might get dead. I think the benefit of those generators outweighs the cost. That is especially true if you consider global warming.

Yeah there are a lot of things that I don't agree with the environmentalist on, but if there were no wackos out there willing to chain themselves to trees, and no EPA big, business would rape and pillage the earth.
I guess a lot of people think that would be okay if it was done in the name of profit. We all know we have to protect the right to get filthy rich. Even if pollution forces people to abandon their homes because their kids are dying from cancer or a few rivers become so polluted that their waters kill instead of sustain living things.

Do you remember the commercial where the little girl is asking her granddad what happened to all the trees? That was funny.

I was kidding about the nuclear powered car. The pres wants more nuclear plants and that would be a good move except I have no faith in the governments waste management abilities.

 

[StangDreamin']

Haven't been around for the weekend; 1/2NoKitten vacated Texas and snuck back home on an Extended 72 over the holiday. Regarding your posted "gas prediction"; are you guys actually paying only $2.60 for unleaded??? Jeeze the absolute cheapest gas in Yuma is presently $2.97.... and that's 22 cents than the cheapest price I could find in Phoenix on Friday and Monday.

So the wind generators are ugly and some birds might get dead. I think the benefit of those generators outweighs the cost.

First, I don't think they're all that ugly! However, the dead birds part has brought forth lawsuits (from Greenpeace and Earth First, et al) that stopped several wind farms from being built.

That is especially true if you consider global warming.

Do me a favor. Google up weather AND historic AND data AND "warming trends". Tell me where Earth is on the "100 year cycle" - some of Ben Franklin's data and theorys will make you wonder.

Yeah there are a lot of things that I don't agree with the environmentalist on, but if there were no wackos out there willing to chain themselves to trees, and no EPA big, business would rape and pillage the earth.

Another Google search: Overgaard OR Show Low AND "Rodeo-Chedeski" (sometimes that last word is spelled "Chedeskii" with TWO i's).
That little million-plus acre wildfire was aided by the dense undergrowth in the forest bed. About 5-6 years before, the wackos decided that it would be easier to forego chaining themselves to trees in favor of obtaining a blanket injunction against timber companies and private citizens from cutting any live wood including dense young-growth pine and oak thickets -even on their own private property! My brother Donny and I almost got to test-ride (from the back seat) the Navajo County S.O.'s brand-new Expedition because we were trying to thin out a pine thicket between the house and the road on our Mom's place in the woods behind Overgaard.
5 years later; we got to clear-cut the thicket and a few nice mature 50-footers nearby....they were all dead and black.

Unfortunately my personal experiences with the typical environmentalists have been much like the Labor Union that I quit earlier this year - they've done me far more harm than good.

 

[jes72mustang]

Well, folks the economic effects of the hurricane are only starting with gas because that was an immediate hit. But if you consider all the goods that were imported thorugh the port of New Orleans we haven't seen anything yet. Expect the cost of groceries to increase both because the change in ports to bring stuff into the states, and the cost of fuel to transport it.

I hope you don't have plans for any home improvement projects in the near future, because the cost of lumber, and other building materials is going to go up significantly as people along the gulf coast start to rebuild.

We might as well stop Belly-aching about the gas prices and playing the blame game because we all know that we are going to pay whatever price we have to to get the things that we want, be it gas, food, parts for our stangs or whatever.

On the bright side I talked to my mechanic, who owns a gas station and he said he expects the gas prices will start to come down a little over the next few weeks. They will not got down a dollar in a week like they went up, but he said expect to see them start creeping down a couple of cents every few days. Will gas ever get back down to less than $2 bucks? I doubt it, but it will come down to less than $3 most likely.

 

[jikelly]

Environmentalism is bad?

If anyone wonders what the cost of not protecting the environment would be just do a search on google for environmental disasters in the U.S.. Here are a few links to some interesting ones.

http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/aoc/cuyahoga.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/01/60minutes/main609889.shtml

http://www.ec.gc.ca/science/sandefeb03/a3_e.html

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/cases.html

B.T.W. gas is currently 2.94 around here in Lubbock.

 

['66 coupe]

Environmentalism is bad?

No one here is saying "Screw the Earth." We're just sick of environmentalist that aren't willing to make a compromise. To them EVERY kind of plant or refinery is bad. Their beliefs usually come from not having their facts straight, which is the most frustrating thing about all these issues.

Take every holiert-than-thou celebrity that drives a Prius to prove their righteousness. Do they not realize they're still causing pollution by using electricity, which is more than usually made at a coal burning plant?!!

Maybe if they got their facts straight, and stopped sueing everybody, technology in our refineries and plants will be able to progess therefore minimizing pollution.

Besides, if a volcano explodes, all the work's for nothing.

 

[bnickel]

yes there are things that have been done that are very bad to the envoirnment, but there are also some pretty stupid things done by the treehuggers as well. for instance when i lived in austin they determined that the downstream dam of lake travis was no longer safe for vehicle travle and that it was hazardous to keep using it for vehicle travle as there was a possibility that the dam could rupture. the destruction that would have followed would have pretty wiped out downtown austin. so they decided to build a low water bridge just under the dam.

the envoirnmentalists stopped the building for quite a while because of some rare bird that made it's home in that area. so the ALL of the birds had to be relocated before construction began, which took over a year as best as i can remember. now i'm thinking that was pretty freaking stupid since if the dam burst in this time due to vehicel travel it would have completely wiped out these birds altogether, but the birds probably would have relocated themselves as soon as construction began anyway. tese are the kind of things that annoy me. i usually side myself with the tree huggers in most cases but in this particular instance it just seemed ridiculous to me what they did.

 

[zookeeper]

The thing I despise most about the individual environmentalist is the double standard thye live under. For instance, a few years ago, a local logger decided to use HIS OWN property to build a motocross track, to try to make up some of his income lost by all the logging restrictions imposed by enviro-wackos. For those that don't know, small time motocross tracks are a great way for a family to enjoy the day together and build relationships that will last. The whole family can partcipate, from 4 year old pee-wees, to Mom, Dad and the aspiring pro, there's a spot for everyone. Before he built the track, he checked with his neighbors (the closest was nearly a mile away) to make sure they were OK with it, after all, it's their home, too. So for the next couple of years, in a secluded spot in Northern California, races were held and all were happy. But not the environmentalists. No, they didn't live there, they had to go out of their way to even hear the bikes and it only happened a few weekends a year, mostly during the fall and early winter months. But still, the all-knowing environmentalists brought a lawsuit, claiming that the horrid motorcycles were ruining the sanctity of the ancient redwood forest and should be stopped immediately! Of course they didn't win the first round, but in true liberal fashion, they shopped their case around until they found a sympathetic judge who agreed and stopped the evil hoard from enjoying themselves. Normally, that would be the end, but guess what? About 3 miles down the road, in THE SAME FOREST, the same whack jobs that shut down the races, hold a reggae festival that draws thousands and lasts for days, drawing in the filthiest bunch you could imagine. Evidently, the same trees that are disturbed by the sound of an MX bike are overjoyed by the sound of reggae music and the smell of marijuana...

 

[bnickel]

damn that's a tough choice, motocrosses and reggae with the sweet stench of pot lurking in the air, i might have to be on both sides of that one. BTW, i don't smoke anymore but i still love the smell when i go to a good concert, it' just not really a good concert without it, ya know.

 

[jikelly]

Well, I really don't know what else to say about the environment stuff. I guess it always comes down to humans or the birds, animals, trees, rocks and stuff. A lot of people would say humans first, let um do what every they want. God gave us the power.

It's a matter of choices, actions and consequences. We have to choose what we do wisely because we’ve only got the one planet, and you have to live somewhere. Yeah I’m goofy but I feel pretty passionately about this stuff. I’ll leave ya’ll alone about it now. Thanks for your thoughts.

I think Marijuana smells like %$#$.

 

[zookeeper]

That's another thing, why does it always have to be either/or? Can't both exist? Ever been to a sand dune area? I'm not talking about a small beach, either. I mean a place with hundreds of acres of nothing but sand dunes. No trees, bushes or food for wildlife of any kind. Hundreds of off-road vehicles of all kinds could use the place on the weekend, yet by tuesday of that same week, you'd never know any human being had ever been there. The nightly wind erases any and all evidence and has been for millions of years. Yet the environmental groups would like you to believe that off-roaders are causing irrepairable erosion to the planet by roosting up the dunes. They are not to be taken lightly, and the have already closed many of California's dune areas, and are enforcing it not with their funds but with tax dollars, yet another way rampant environmentalism is killing this country. BTW, we agree on one thing, I hate the smell of dope, too.

 

[MustangGurl2695]

Lets see what a 15yr old can add...

Alright, I may not drive yet, (Next year I get my permit), but I'm still watching the gas pricing, and paying attention to this whole big ordeal.

Here at home, gas costs about 3.30-3.49$ depending on the gas station. Here's what I think...

Can Bush do anything about this?
Mixed thoughts here. I know as rbohm had stated before, that Bush really doesn't have any control over the pricing, but I also think that Bush has the power to maybe come to some sort of agreement over in the Middle East with the oil companies, and work on lowering the prices. On the other hand, if an agreement or something was drawn up, and then refused, well there really isn't anything he can do about that. I'm not sure if in this day and age my idea would ever become a reality.

Paying for what we've already got.
Just today in History class, we talked about Monopoly, and Free Trade governments. As we did, gas companies came up, and switched the subject. My teacher made an interesting point that never came to mind.
A student asked why gas companies were raising their prices in competition with each other instead over lowering their prices to attract more people!? The teacher responded that if a company were to say lower it's prices down to 2.80, everyone would come and fill up their tanks, no matter if they needed gas or not, but then they would run out quickly, and from selling at such a low price, they would make no profit, and loose a lot of money. He also told us that the gas that they buy is stored in tanks below the stations, (yes we all know that), but that when that gas is purchased, the prices where lower and with the price hikes, consumers are buying gas at much higher prices than what the companies originally bought them for, and theoretically should have sold them for.

Start saving now.
Now instead of parents telling there kids to save up money for a car when they get older, it's save up your money for gas! Even if you can afford the car, will people around the age of 18-20's be able to afford driving around when most people don't have a decent paying job yet? I know I work, and my paychecks wouldn't support me and gas for very long!

 

[gp001]

Well, I really don't know what else to say about the environment stuff. I guess it always comes down to humans or the birds, animals, trees, rocks and stuff. A lot of people would say humans first, let um do what every they want. God gave us the power.

It's a matter of choices, actions and consequences. We have to choose what we do wisely because we’ve only got the one planet, and you have to live somewhere. Yeah I’m goofy but I feel pretty passionately about this stuff. I’ll leave ya’ll alone about it now. Thanks for your thoughts.

I think Marijuana smells like %$#$.

Yet you own a classic car

 

[Hack]

before you complain that big oil and president bush are ripping you off, consider a few facts;

1: the net profit per dollar of sales for the oil companies is 7.6 cents, where as all other industries average 7.9 cents per dollar.

2: yes the oil companies have record profits, but they are also selling record amounts of their products, which by the way is more than just gasoline. heaven forbid that big oil(or any business for that matter) should make a profit.

3: at the current time the federal, state, and local governments around the country require that the oil companies make 18 DIFFRERENT fuel blends because of environmental regulations. yes the environmental groups DO have a big hand in this as they constantly file law suits to require certain ingredients be added or subtracted from fuel blends.

4: right now refinery capacity is maxed out due to the different fuel blends that are required, and due to overall demand.

5: also dont forget that oil companies buy oil not only from set contracts, but on the spot market as well, and that is where much of the cost of oil comes from. spot market oil is expensive, and of course the cost is passed onto the consumer.

what is needed is to;

1: change many environmental laws to reduce the number of fuel blends to 3 or 4.

2: change environmental laws to allow the building of new refineries with new technologies for getting the most out of crude oil stocks.

3: make new regulations to force the oil companies to start making synthetic fuel from coal and other sources to start reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

4: expand the use of E85 fuel to also help reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

I agree with you 100% except for your point about ethanol blends. The very existence of ethanol just infuriates me. Perhaps not many people realize that ethanol is not a self-sustaining energy source. In other words, it takes more energy to make ethanol than you actually get from it.

The only reason there is ethanol and ethanol blends is that ADM is big enough to line the politicians' pockets with enough money for them to enact legislation requiring its use. Ethanol is not cleaner than gasoline. It's also really hard on engines, especially older engines like those in our classic cars. Our taxes pay to subsidize ethanol, otherwise it would cost much more than gasoline. Ethanol also has lower energy content than gasoline - reducing cars' fuel economy. Ethanol: corruption in action.

I'm also surprised that no one mentioned how Bush tried to open up the Alaskan oil reserves. Remember how the democrats (Kerry included) screamed how terrible he was? Can we say prescient? I'd really hate for a few caribou to have to look at ugly oil equipment - that would be evil. I see it as more evidence of how great Bush is. IMO he's the best since Reagan, maybe even better. I'd say he easily ranks in the top 10, possibly the top 5 presidents ever.

 

[jikelly]

That's another thing, why does it always have to be either/or? Can't both exist?

That's not what I'm saying at all. There has to be a way to balance the stuff we do with what's good for nature.

Yep I own a classic pre emissions control muscle car. It's a gas guzzling son of a biscket 12/20, and if I had a dune buggy, and lived in the right area I'd be on the dunes driving like a maniac. Contridiction? I guess so.

 

[rbohm]

i have no problem with people who want to improve the environment, but i DO have a problem with the wacko environmentalists who have decided that no one can or should be able to harm our "pristine" wilderness. they are the ones that spike the trees to injure and even kill loggers who go to cut those trees down to thin out forrested areas, they are teh ones that set fire to big suv's on dealer lots, as well as committing other crimes all in the name of saving the environment. responsible environmental policies are a good thing as they allow proper land use. when wyerhauser(sp?) goes into an area to cut down trees, they cut a select amount , and the replant the area for the future. they understand that they have to have product in order to stay in business, and they know that their product is replenishable.

hack, i agree that ethanol is not the end all be all answer for our energy problem, but it is a usable stopgap measure, untill anwr can be developed, and untill the oil shale we have can be developed, and best to develope synthetic fuel from coal, which we have enough of to fuel the world for the next 500 years.

mustangurl2695, yes president bush could try to broker agreements with the countries that supply us with crude oil, but that is only a small part of the problem. the real problem is that crude oil is bought and sold on the commodities market, and the spot market. in the commodities market people buy and sell oil contracts to make money, even though they never really get the oil themselves, the oil companies eventually buy the contracts from the traders at market prices. thus when you see the price of a barrel of crude oil going up or down, that is the market traders that are either buying or selling contracts, or contract options, for future shipments of oil.

the spot market on the other hand is designed to help cover immediate crude oil shortages that one company might have. they buy surplus oil from another company, usually above market price. this surplus oil can, and usually is, bid on by a couple of different oil companies, depending on their needs.

 

[Hack]

WHERE TO BUY YOUR USA-GAS
> >
> > WHERE TO BUY YOUR USA-GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON--
> > Why didn't George W. think of this? Gas rationing in the 80's worked
even
> > though we grumbled about it.
> >
> > It might even be good for us!
> >
> > The Saudis are boycotting American goods.
> >
> > We should return the favor.
> >
> > An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.
> > Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into
the
> > coffers of Saudi Arabia.
> > Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.
> >
> >
> > Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I
> > fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill
me,
> > my family, and my friends.
> >
> > I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies
are
> > the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle
Eastern
> > oil.
> >
> > These companies import Middle Eastern oil:
> > Shell............................ 205,742,000 barrels
> > Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
> > Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
> > Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
> > Amoco............................62,231,000 barrels
> > If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18
> > BILLION! (oil is now $55-$60 a barrel)
> >
> >
> > Here are some large companies that
> > do not import Middle Eastern oil:
> >
> > Citgo......................0 barrels
> > Sunoco...................0 barrels
> > Conoco..................0 barrels
> > Sinclair.................0 barrels
> > BP/Phillips............0 barrels
> > Hess.......................0 barrels
> > ARC0.....................0 barrels
> >
> > All of this information is available from the Department of Energy
> > and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much
> > they are importing.
> >
> > But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions
> > of gas buyers. It's really simple to do.
> >
> > Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll
> > explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
> >
> > I'm sending this note to about thirty people.
> >
> > If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and
> >
> > those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and
> >
> > so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people,
> >
> > we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers !!!!!!!
> >
> > If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten
> > friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!
> >
> > If it goes one level further, you guessed it .... THREE HUNDRED MILLION
> > PEOPLE!!!
> >
> >
> > Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all
that
> > take?
> >
> > If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day,
all
> > 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight
> > days!

I've received this note a couple times in the last year. It's going around the internet. I don't think it's correct, and IMO no one should trust it. For one BP bought out Amoco - they are listed as if they are separate companies on the list.

 

[zookeeper]

That's not what I'm saying at all. There has to be a way to balance the stuff we do with what's good for nature.

Yep I own a classic pre emissions control muscle car. It's a gas guzzling son of a biscket 12/20, and if I had a dune buggy, and lived in the right area I'd be on the dunes driving like a maniac. Contridiction? I guess so.

That's not a contradiction at all. That's the way I feel exactly. I love the outdoors, I mean I really love it. There's nothing like a brisk morning ride through logging roads to make you feel alive. My family from my 66 year old Dad to my 5 year old son thoroughly enjoy spending time together riding bikes and ATV's through the woods. My son gets to see deer, squirrels, raccoons and the occaisonal porcupine close up, not in a zoo. We respect the areas we ride in just as if it were our own living room. That way the next person gets to enjoy it, too. Same goes for the times I put a paddle tire on my motcrosser and go to the Oregon Dunes, again as a family. I feel grateful to be alive when I'm riding across a huge dune, then stop to watch the sun set over the ocean. There's is no better way that I've experienced to end a good day than with a good ride.
I also respect the rights of hikers as does everyone I know, and we would never ride on hiking, horseback, or mountain bike trails. There is plenty of planet to go around, so why not share? But there are those that feel quite the opposite, and they don't care if I ride in locations so remote they could never see it on foot. For them it's "my way or no way". They use obscure laws to get property locked up, and if that means they don't get it either, so be it. I get the feeling that you and I are more alike than you might realize. We both appreciate the outdoors, both appreciate old Mustangs and both want clean air and water, right? But lets not forget that there are people out there that would love to deprive us of our right to enjoy it, and they do it in the name of protecting the earth.

 

[mudbilly]

But lets not forget that there are people out there that would love to deprive us of our right to enjoy it, and they do it in the name of protecting the earth.

yea, and there are companies out there that would just love to take your mountains and dunes and turn them into tract houses if they could get away with it....

or clear cut for coal

here are some recent pics of where i grew up....it looked similar to this back in 70's except the earth has tried to reclaim the old diggings and the shovels just keep moving on to ravage the mountain some more..........

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7622235&uid=3200195&members=1

i'm on the two wheeler


the only good thing was that it made for some purty good riding.......we had slush (un-useable coal piles) 10 stories high to mountain climb, the dirt was kinda sharp, so there were alot of nasty brush burns....


man, i was really trying to stay out of this conversation.....that started out with the proposal that we were being gouged by the oil monopoly and then somehow turned into an environmental battle