Planning on doing a before/after comparison of Trick Flow intake but..

[ScortLX]

I'm not sure when to do the baseline pulls on the dyno. I have a chance to do it this weekend because the weather is supposed to be nice (50's) and I have no plans, or I can wait till the spring when it will probably be around the same temp if not a little warmer and do the baseline pulls a few weeks before I swap the intake. What should I do? I will not be modding the car at any point between now and then so I don't think it really matters, just wanted to get some opinions. I figured I could help some people out by posting my results with my basic bolt-ons and no tune car to see what kind of real world gains/losses we may get! I'm not hoping for the losses though. Just let me know your opinions! Thanks everybody!

 

[dimeadz]

Is this for the manifold? If it isn't, then disregard paragraph below.

I take it you are a guinea pig for Trickflow then. I would say dyno it now. Your results could sway buyers in either direction. I suppose you could even take pics of the install, so when the intake is available no one will have fitment issues. Are you going to port the manifold, as it comes in 3 pieces.

 

[Zacharyx]

I would wait and do it closer to the intake install in hopes of the temps being closer, I think that would give you and th erst of us a better idea of what the intake is capable

 

[ScortLX]

I mean the manifold, but I won't be getting it till its released. Rumor has it will be available for ORDER in mid January. That means I would be able to purchase it and get the two dynos done in March probably. I just think January and February may be too cold, etc. to get the install done cleanly but March would be good. I wish I had the inside track and was getting a pre-production model but I have to wait like everybody else does. I want one, so I figured I could help out the guys on the fence by documenting the install, getting numbers before and after and posting them. I'm sure some people will be holding off till they see some numbers before buying...I'm just kinda planning on giving some of those numbers Plus, my car is pretty mildly modded, so that will give a good indication what the "basic gains" may be on a nearly stock/mildly modified car. I will also be using a 75MM TB at the same time so take that into consideration. I may wait till March for both so I can keep the temperature more constant and do it within the same two weeks or so to keep less variables out of it. We'll see. Thanks for your replies! Anyone else?

dimeadz.....no plans for porting at this point

 

[DropTopPony]

it wouldn't be accurate if the before and after were done 6 months apart in different weather.

 

[ScortLX]

I agree droptop, so I'm not going to do the baseline pulls till March or so. I'll do the swap in the week or two after the baseline pulls and dyno it again with the closest weather conditions I can get.

 

[san~man]

Not to sound rude, but as of this moment, you're talking about a product that no one knows when will be released.

They say Jan, but you never know. I'll believe it when I see it online or in a catalog.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Dyno correction figures will all but nullify the weather conditions so it doesn't matter when you do the baseline run and the "after" run.

Just try to keep things like your coolant temp and rear tire pressures the same as not to skew the difference in the numbers.

Sounds like right now the Fox Lake P-51 is showing some decent gains.

 

[ScortLX]

I completely agree san....so then it will happen if/when it comes out I guess I too will believe when I see it online or in a catalog, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[Dusstbuster]

Sounds like right now the Fox Lake P-51 is showing some decent gains.

You also have to sacrifice your first born child to buy one though...This one is a little under half the price of a P-51 if i'm not mistaken.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

If TF can keep the cost of the intake manifold around $350 (half of the P-51) that would be an absolute steal if it's a quality product. I don't even think $700 is too bad of a deal at all for an aftermarket aluminum intake manfold. The Bullitt is around 1K.

Anyone have a link to any info on this TF intake manifold?

 

[mrvax]

Wait until you get the new manifold for both dyno runs. Keep them as close as possible. Same oil change, same plugs, fuel & air filters, etc. Anything you touch between runs may skew the results.

 

[san~man]

If TF can keep the cost of the intake manifold around $350 (half of the P-51) that would be an absolute steal if it's a quality product. I don't even think $700 is too bad of a deal at all for an aftermarket aluminum intake manfold. The Bullitt is around 1K.

Anyone have a link to any info on this TF intake manifold?

Well, the P51 is on sale for 699.00, BUT you need either theirs or someone elses fuel rail kit to be able to use it. The FL one is 349.00, so you're still looking at about 1050.00 for a complete kit. The TF one is supposed to be able to be used w/o any other parts, but the price is still up in the air.

The Bullitt, with all the necessary parts, is well over 1k.

 

[jstreet0204]

Dyno correction figures will all but nullify the weather conditions so it doesn't matter when you do the baseline run and the "after" run.

Just try to keep things like your coolant temp and rear tire pressures the same as not to skew the difference in the numbers.

Sounds like right now the Fox Lake P-51 is showing some decent gains.

Dyno correction are "supposed to" cancel out enviromental factors but they don't. They are only accurate within a limited range. I have seen my car gain 7hp SAE corrected doing nothing to the car just dynoing it in June, then again in Nov. So trying to test something in two different seasons is not going to be accurate. Especially when trying to compare a 5 to 15 hp gain which is about all I think he is going to see on a mostly stock car.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Well, the P51 is on sale for 699.00, BUT you need either theirs or someone elses fuel rail kit to be able to use it. The FL one is 349.00, so you're still looking at about 1050.00 for a complete kit. The TF one is supposed to be able to be used w/o any other parts, but the price is still up in the air.

The Bullitt, with all the necessary parts, is well over 1k.

Very true, however I was just comparing the manifolds themselves. If TF makes their manifold to where it will work with the stock fuel rails, that would be a big plus and would make it an even better deal.

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Dyno correction are "supposed to" cancel out enviromental factors but they don't. They are only accurate within a limited range. I have seen my car gain 7hp SAE corrected doing nothing to the car just dynoing it in June, then again in Nov. So trying to test something in two different seasons is not going to be accurate. Especially when trying to compare a 5 to 15 hp gain which is about all I think he is going to see on a mostly stock car.

There are so many non-weather variations that are possible between different dyno runs that will prove to show a significant difference in numbers.....tire pressures, alignment of the car on the rollers, engine coolant temp, trans fluid temp, rear lube temp, oil pressure, so on and so on. Lot's of people (even some tuners) just assume that it has to do with the weather. It has very very little, if at all, to do with the weather. That's the entire reason for the SAE corrections formulas used with most dyno software.

You are correct that there is a certain "range" by which the weather station connected to the dyno can measure temp and baro. I can't recall the exact range limits on our old MD-250 Mustang dyno, but you would have to live in a place where there was a very extreme climate, in regards to baro and temp, to exceed those limits.

Most dyno software, including Dynojet's and Mustang Dynos, requires the operator to manually enter the humidity for each pull. That is one of the ways that different runs in different parts of the season get messed up....operator error. The difference between 0 percent and 100 percent humidity is about a 7 percent correction. The difference between 60°F and 90°F , will only yield about a 2.8 percent correction. Baro differences will usually yield the biggest corrections if they are significant. But, unless your two pulls are more than 2k-2.5k ft altitude apart, the software will correct very accurately.

As far as the weather corrections alone, there is no such thing as being incorrect unless there is a mathematical error by the computer...it is a mathematically accurate correction performed by the dyno operating software.

One other thing I have noticed over the years is that some shops will put their temp probe in a weird spot. It is supposed to be inside the shop, out of the sun, as close the the intake of the car as possible in a permanately fixed location. I have seen some shops with their temp probes inside the office where the dyno computer was or next to the outside facing metal wall which is a big no no as you can imagine.

 

[san~man]

Very true, however I was just comparing the manifolds themselves. If TF makes their manifold to where it will work with the stock fuel rails, that would be a big plus and would make it an even better deal.

According to initial information, it will be able to be used with stock or aftermarket fuel rails. Let's hope so.

 

[the98stang]

I mean the manifold, but I won't be getting it till its released. Rumor has it will be available for ORDER in mid January.

Don't get your hopes up....

 

[ScortLX]

I understand 98, but we'll know soon if the rumors of it being sold in the early spring are true.