RRAAGGGHHHRRRHRHAH!!! Water in oil problem.... for the 3rd time.

[94Blue302GT]

I've replaced the head and intake gaskets 2 times already now.
I have water in the oil.
The gaskets I KNOW are good on the heads this time. Correct torque, psi, etc.
Intake gasket looked good, and had plenty of sealant etc.
Could it be something with the timing chain that I installed?
Is there a possibility?
It seems to be a slower leak, mainly when it gets warmer.
So what do i do? The intake is off at the moment. Oh, and no bubbling out of the radiator, but it does slowly get drained, and it also has a new pump as well.
HELP!!! I need it...

 

[VibrantRedGT]

Rule out water pump and intake for coolant in the motor. The heads need to come off. Look around the piston area for rust. Don 't know what heads your using but if they irons look for a crack. If there aluminum's send them out to a shop for warpage check. Could have deck issues.

My neighbors car had a tiny crack in the passenger side GT40p head. Apparently CCM (Central Coast Mustang or Crap Crap and More) overtightened the head during installation. We searched for awhile and decided to pull the heads. Two pistons on each side of the motor were rusty.

 

[bimmertech]

when you had the heads off how much warpage on the deck/heads did you see?

also did you have your heads checked out?

 

[94Blue302GT]

I checked the heads myself with a straight edge, and trying to fit a thin piece of paper unerneath it, that was about it. As far as crackage, there was nothing visible.
I thought possibly the timing chain cover, or the bolts holding it all on. The thing is, those bolts shouldn't be getting water.. or oil for that matter, should they? Could it be that I don't have silicone enough, or gasket enough or whatever?
I have another set of heads (all of them are stock, just off of two cars) that i could throw on, but I don't know which one would be bad. Neither one looks bad, no rusty pistons, nothin. I"d like to use these heads cuz they're mildly ported (tested only with a hose and plates for leaks) to match the gasket, and should flow better.
Maybe I just should buy a set of AFR 185's or 205's and see if that solves it, lol
But really, i'd like to find out what the problem is before i sink more money into it.
Like i said, pressure test good.
Spark plugs are all good, none are white or super clean or anything.

 

[94Blue302GT]

Oh, and last time i had the motor apart it got new rings and bearings, so the piston holds water till it evaporates... well, basically.
I guess i'll tear the heads off.... I was trying to stay away from that though, especially since the last time it seemed it was fine as well.
I know a cleveland has a bolt go straight through the water pump to the timing chain, in which case all of that would have to be really well sealed.

 

[94Blue302GT]

Just pulled the bolts from the water pump and the top RH (Driver's side) bolt was covered in oil. Also, a oil/water mix came from the pump, not so much out of the radiator. I'll be tearing that all down tomorrow.
Hopefully putting it back together as well.
Is there any way to test for water going through at that bolt, or no?

 

[mytight95]

i would check to see if your timing cover is cracked. I would also look the block over in the valleys etc. when you have the parts back off.



jason

 

[94Blue302GT]

block looked fine as well. I just buttoned everything back up with new gaskets, all the way down to the timing chain. I"ll hopefully put the upper intake and all the wires etc. back on monday and start it up again.

 

[95CobraMike]

hopefully it is just your timing cover that is cracked.... but i know that sometimes cracks in a block or a head might not be visible unless magnafluxed. my block was that way, and so was my crankshaft

i dont know if it was mentioned in the above, but check for cracks in your lower intake manifold too, water goes through it and if a crack were in the right place it would go in your oil

 

[8950HO]

Did you use sealer on the lower head bolts and did you retorque the lower intake manifold bolts after install...after running the engine a bit?

The lower intake manifold can take 2 or more retorque sessions before it finally seals.

 

[mo_dingo]

i ran into the same problem you with my car. I swore up and down that it was the timing cover.

Here is how I found my leak. Put everything back together, drail the oil pan (both drain plugs), fill the radiator with water all the way to the top. You might start seeing water dripping out of your oil drains.

If so, borrow a borescope, and see if you can track the leak. You will be able to see the timing chain cover from the front sump, and the coolant passages in the block from the rear sump.

If you don't know anyone that has a borescope, see if you can rent it from a tech at a dealer of some sort.

If water doesn't come out of your oil pan, this won't work, obviously. But that's how bad my leak was.
Scott

 

[94Blue302GT]

I never retorqued my intake bolts, never thought too. I know i needed to recheck the head bolts, but never thought about the intake being loose. I redid the timing chain gaskets and all.
I"ll try that method of checking for leads before i load it up with oil though, that's for sure. Thanks for the suggestion mo_dingo! Don't know if i can get ahold of that borescope, but i'll think of something. I"ll fill it up with water tomorrow and let ya know how it goes!

 

[blksn955.o]

Did you re-install the timing cover dowel(sp?) pins? I actually "forgot" to when I put together my motor, I totaly didnt notice them/see them/or anything .

Anyway, found out the hard way that it will cause the timing cover to "flex" kinda, as the bolts have some play in the bolt holes. I developed a slight leak when I put the car up for the winter. I planned on taking it off anyway so no biggie and thank GOD that it didnt start to leak until it was already up and sitting in the garage for 2 weeks. That could have been a realy costly and stupid mistake/oversight.

 

[94Blue302GT]

Well, i pulled the plugs on the pan again, and let the last little shtuff drip out. Filled the radiator and tried to bounce the car around a bit in order to make everything go through the system, but i can't start it cuz i don't have any of the upper on. It looks like it may be dripping water from the rear drain on the pan, but it's hard to tell since there is oil all over. The water level is down a bit as well, after sitting for awhile, but i thought it might be just seeping through all the area's in the motor. I'll fill it up again about 3 oclock here and then see what it does before i go to bed. It's definatly not a fast drain, or a fast drip from the pan, but with everything just had been mixed together, who knows...

 

[94Blue302GT]

I think the water has started to stop draining now. I will put the cap back on and let is sit and we'll see.

Ok, but here's the thing...
I cranked the motor over and on the driver's side, it hisses as the compression from the cyl's go up and down. Is this normal? Could this be coming out of a gasket somewhere? I don't hear it on the driver's side. Could this be my leak? water level didn't go down when i did it either, nor did it bubble or anything.

 

[94Blue302GT]

well, if no word from anyone, i'll be putting on new gaskets... AGAIN at least on the DS.