Engine Started and ran for 10 seconds now won’t start

Diesel1277

New Member
Sep 26, 2019
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Tolland ct
Hey guys I have a 1991 302 in my 1995 bmw chassis. I bought the car and got the car running and driving before I took it apart to do the head gaskets I found to be bad when running it. I now have everything back together and started it and she ran for about 10-15 seconds and now wont stay running at all. I turn the key it starts for less than a second and tries to idle up but won’t stay running at all no matter if I give it throttle or not. I did notice exhaust backfires which I haven’t had before. I’ve tried adjusting the timing a little to see if I was way off but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I checked my connections to the coil, plugs and distributor, the alternator, and checked all vacuum lines. My egr is deleted I have the following aftermarket parts in my engine


Trickflow wedge heads freshly resurfaced and gone through
New trickflow cam .490 lift
New trickflow roller rockers
New ford racing oil pump and pickup
Ford racing head gaskets
New dual timing chain/sprockets
New chromoly pushrods
New ford racing lifters
Arp headbolts
Gt40 lower intake ported by Tmoss
Msd distributor/wires
Bbk shorty headers
Newer water pump/hoses/thermostat
Ford racing 90 degree remote oil filter housing/new filter
 
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jrichker

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Did it run OK before took the heads off?
You had the heads off when you replaced the gaskets. Did you remove the distributor?
Which firing order are you using HO or Passenger car?
This doesn’t prove that the block is a HO block. Some trucks evidently use a HO firing order with a low lift cam (this will result in less than the desired HP output). However, it will definitely prove that a block can’t be HO because the firing order is wrong.

Remove the #1 & #3 spark plugs. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Slowly turn the engine until the TDC mark and the timing pointer line up. Mark TDC on the balancer with chalk or paint. Put your finger in #3 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. You should feel pressure trying to blow past your finger. If you do not feel pressure, repeat the process again. If you feel pressure, it is a HO engine.

No pressure the second time, remove spark plug #5. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Put your finger in #5 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. If you feel pressure now, the engine is not a HO model, no matter what it says on the engine.

Using a small carpenter or machinist square to mark the harmonic balancer off into 90 degree sections may be helpful here.

A 15/16 deep socket & breaker bar or ratchet may be used to turn the engine.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8


Do an end to the injector wring test to make sure that the injectors are properly sequenced for a HO engine and computer

Disconnect the main connector from the computer and pull it down so that you have good access to the computer side of the connector.
Place one voltmeter lead in pin 40 or 60 - they are both the main computer power ground. This lead does not change for any of the tests
Disconnect all the injector connectors from the injectors.
You will re-connect them one at a time to do the testing. Once you have checked an injector lead, disconnect it before testing the next injector. Fail to do this and you will get incorrect results

Turn the ignition switch to Run
Check pins 37 & 57; you should see 12 volts.

Computer wiring harness connector, wire side
71316.gif


Computer wiring harness connector, computer side
88243.gif


Here are the HO injector wires that are different; check to see that you have 12 volts on them one at a time.
Connect injector #3, look for 12 volts on pin 12 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #7, look for 12 volts on pin 42 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #5, look for 12 volts on pin 14 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #4. look for 12 volts on pin 13 on the computer. You are finished now and can reconnect all the injector connectors to the injectors.


Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.

Revised 28-Apr-2018 to add photo & description of the SPOUT connector and SPOUT jumper .

You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.

Note: If you don't have access to a timing light, most of the larger auto parts stores will rent or loan one if you have a credit card or leave a cash deposit.



Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. If the TFI prevents the distributor from being turned enough to get 14°, there is a simple fix. Pull the distributor out and turn the rotor 1 tooth counterclockwise Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.

Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.

10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.

Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.

Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.

ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.

The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.

To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.

The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see than the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.

Remove the SPOUT jumper
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?hash=b7aa25fb4ed28609c02557131061b91b.jpg


It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT. The SPOUT (Spark Out) enables the computer to control the spark advance. When the SPOUT is removed, the ignition timing reverts to the base ignition timing set by either the spark rod inside the distributor or the physical position of the distributor.

Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

 

Diesel1277

New Member
Sep 26, 2019
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1
22
Tolland ct
It ran decent before taking it apart using the non HO firing order so that is the firing order I used now, it wasn’t running great but it would idle and drive enough to go around the block to test if the clutch was slipping. I figured it wasn’t running 100% due to burning so much antifreeze from the head gasket being bad. I did remove the distributor but I was the one who had set the timing before and I set it the exact same way, I had it running 14 degrees advanced. I have brand new injectors I had replaced because I thought my old ones were bad but it was a ground issue but that is taken care of now. My obd1 “engine code tester” is not hooked up inside the car to the bmw engine light, is there anyway I can read flashes with a test light? I’m not sure exactly what it is called but the connector you jump to read engine codes. I’m lost I’ve checked everything as far as I can tell and it is exactly as it was before other than the few things when I was inside such as gaskets, rocker arm preload/valve lash settings, and the timing being slightly off due to me having to pull the distributor.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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Mustang5L5

This is a big reason why I pulled it out
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
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Smoke test for vac leaks and do compression test to see if any valves hanging open.

Since it’s freshly assembled and won’t run it may be mechanical
 

Diesel1277

New Member
Sep 26, 2019
14
0
1
22
Tolland ct
How do I do a smoke test? I have a hard time thinking it’s a vacuum leak because I replaced all vacuum lines when building the car originally, I even got a new pcv for it and cleaned the grommet it sits in in the lower intake. Is there a specific port on the GT40 upper intake it should go? I have it ran to one of the front ports. I will be able to test for codes which I’m sure I have at least a few and can test compression. Would you guys recommend me to test each cylinder by cranking the engine with the ignition wire off the coil? What should compression be around?
 

Mustang5L5

This is a big reason why I pulled it out
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crc6CJ_ni2w


The smoke test is less about testing the vac lines, and more about a slipped lower intake gasket to the heads creating a large vacuum leak.

Also, the compression test will reveal if any of the valves are stuck open due to incorrect setting of the rockers.

For good measure, i'd do a code dump as well, and verify the firing order and the injector wiring order is correct.
 
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67coupe

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Apr 5, 2002
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It ran decent before taking it apart using the non HO firing order so that is the firing order I used now,
If you're sure about this, that raises a lot of questions in my mind.

For starters, that trick flow cam most likely uses the HO firing order.

I'd also question which harness and computer are being used (not HO) as the injector firing order should match the cam firing order.
 
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Diesel1277

New Member
Sep 26, 2019
14
0
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22
Tolland ct
Ive never felt more like a rookie, After doing a compression test I noticed the plugs Looking lean, I pulled the fuel line off the rail and wasn’t getting much fuel from there but I have a wolboro 525gph pump so I should have plenty. By coincidence the car was out of gas. I apologize for wasting time aswell I do not have a functioning gas gauge in the car yet and I had drove it into the garage and taken the entire top end apart so it wasn’t one of the first things I thought of. I really do appreciate everyone’s input even though it was my rookie move In the end.
 

Mustang5L5

This is a big reason why I pulled it out
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
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Usually the simple stuff.


Btw. The TFS cam uses the HO firing order. So that’s the firing order that should be used
 

Diesel1277

New Member
Sep 26, 2019
14
0
1
22
Tolland ct
I’m not 100% sure it’s the trickflow cam, I’m going to have to talk to who I got it from and see if they know, I know the cam is new because I saw it when it was put in but I have no receipt for it, just the heads valves and what not. It is running decent again I need to tune in the ignition timing a little better I have it set at 12degrees base timing right now, I’m going to pull codes and see what I have to deal with before emissions, does anyone know what will fail me and what can be tuned out? Is that something we can discuss here or is there another thread on it? Something that came to mind while typing this lol
 

jrichker

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Mar 10, 2000
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I’m not 100% sure it’s the trickflow cam, I’m going to have to talk to who I got it from and see if they know, I know the cam is new because I saw it when it was put in but I have no receipt for it, just the heads valves and what not. It is running decent again I need to tune in the ignition timing a little better I have it set at 12degrees base timing right now, I’m going to pull codes and see what I have to deal with before emissions, does anyone know what will fail me and what can be tuned out? Is that something we can discuss here or is there another thread on it? Something that came to mind while typing this lol
This doesn’t prove that the block is a HO block. Some trucks evidently use a HO firing order with a low lift cam (this will result in less than the desired HP output). However, it will definitely prove that a block can’t be HO because the firing order is wrong.

Remove the #1 & #3 spark plugs. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Slowly turn the engine until the TDC mark and the timing pointer line up. Mark TDC on the balancer with chalk or paint. Put your finger in #3 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. You should feel pressure trying to blow past your finger. If you do not feel pressure, repeat the process again. If you feel pressure, it is a HO engine.

No pressure the second time, remove spark plug #5. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Put your finger in #5 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. If you feel pressure now, the engine is not a HO model, no matter what it says on the engine.

Using a small carpenter or machinist square to mark the harmonic balancer off into 90 degree sections may be helpful here.

A 15/16 deep socket & breaker bar or ratchet may be used to turn the engine.

The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8


Do an end to the injector wring test to make sure that the injectors are properly sequenced for a HO engine and computer

Disconnect the main connector from the computer and pull it down so that you have good access to the computer side of the connector.
Place one voltmeter lead in pin 40 or 60 - they are both the main computer power ground. This lead does not change for any of the tests
Disconnect all the injector connectors from the injectors.
You will re-connect them one at a time to do the testing. Once you have checked an injector lead, disconnect it before testing the next injector. Fail to do this and you will get incorrect results

Turn the ignition switch to Run
Check pins 37 & 57; you should see 12 volts.

Computer wiring harness connector, wire side
71316.gif


Computer wiring harness connector, computer side
88243.gif


Here are the HO injector wires that are different; check to see that you have 12 volts on them one at a time.
Connect injector #3, look for 12 volts on pin 12 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #7, look for 12 volts on pin 42 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #5, look for 12 volts on pin 14 on the computer. Disconnect the injector connector from the injector before testing the next wire.
Connect injector #4. look for 12 volts on pin 13 on the computer. You are finished now and can reconnect all the injector connectors to the injectors.
 
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