svtcobra0304
New Member
kennym01 said:
I agree. Building any higher boost will put a little stress on the rods and rings. I believe the pistons would be ok though.
For sound and performance, Kenne Bell is the way to go.
supercharger question
- Thread starter my orange-gt
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I agree. Building any higher boost will put a little stress on the rods and rings. I believe the pistons would be ok though.
For sound and performance, Kenne Bell is the way to go.
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Actually, it's the pistons that bite the dust, not the rings. The mod motor pistons don't have enough meat around the ring landings which is where they let go when the pressure is on. I've seen the results of an engine that broke a ring landing with as little as 3psi of boost.svtcobra0304 said:
Rods and Pistons should be a manditory upgrade for anyone running over 9psi of boost.....as a matter of fact, if your tune isn't bang on, even 9psi gets very dangerous.
cobra killer
Founding Member
Good Gawd people..........
Here,I have the proof.
663rwhp 509TQ Vortech T-rim went 10.74 @ 130mph.
Same exact car,same track went 10.56 @ 128.6 with only 615rwhp and 577TQ..KB 2.2
He broke the trans and drive shaft on the next run.He was fairly confident it had a 10.30 in it based on the 60'........
I probably install more KB's then anyone.We have converted alot of Cen blower cars to KB's..The KB cars are quicker.
We had a GT with a intercooled Vortech making 415 rwhp and 398TQ..We swapped to a 1.7 and the car went almost .4 faster in the 1/4 mile with 400rwhp and 420TQ.
KB is winning hands down @ the track over the cen cars we have built.
G.I Joe went a full second faster in the 1/8 mile with his 2.2 over his 640rwhp Paxton blown setup.
We have the real comparisons..3 cars as a matter of fact..More to come......
You'll see a 9 second pass from a 2.2 KB GT as soon as the new tranny is in..This I promise.Based on the 1/8 mile time before we lost 3rd gear,its going 9's........It wil do it with about 50rwhp less then we had on the cen setup.
Tim
Here,I have the proof.
663rwhp 509TQ Vortech T-rim went 10.74 @ 130mph.
Same exact car,same track went 10.56 @ 128.6 with only 615rwhp and 577TQ..KB 2.2
He broke the trans and drive shaft on the next run.He was fairly confident it had a 10.30 in it based on the 60'........
I probably install more KB's then anyone.We have converted alot of Cen blower cars to KB's..The KB cars are quicker.
We had a GT with a intercooled Vortech making 415 rwhp and 398TQ..We swapped to a 1.7 and the car went almost .4 faster in the 1/4 mile with 400rwhp and 420TQ.
KB is winning hands down @ the track over the cen cars we have built.
G.I Joe went a full second faster in the 1/8 mile with his 2.2 over his 640rwhp Paxton blown setup.
We have the real comparisons..3 cars as a matter of fact..More to come......
You'll see a 9 second pass from a 2.2 KB GT as soon as the new tranny is in..This I promise.Based on the 1/8 mile time before we lost 3rd gear,its going 9's........It wil do it with about 50rwhp less then we had on the cen setup.
Tim
Laser-01-gt
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- Jun 7, 2003
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noxious_mustang
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- Oct 6, 2004
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lol, and this is why i dont argue...proof proof proof....i just say when i kick your a$$ at the strip with my centri. dont come back with an excuse like my belt was slipping....no flames just an opinion....i have yet to be PROVED anything.... 
Was post number 103 not proof enough? Modular Ford Powerhouse sells, installs and tests both Centrifugal and (positive displacement) KB's and you just heard it from the horses mouth that the KB's are faster…and while making less horsepower at that! Seems like low end torque is of importance after all?......Or do they have to beat "your" centrifugal blown car for it to count? And even then, would that be enough proof? I know a lot of guys that share the same attitude and opinion as yours. Nothing can beat their set up and if it does, it was a fluke....of course, most of them drive Civics with neon lights and a big goofy wing on the back!noxious_mustang said:lol, and this is why i dont argue...proof proof proof....i just say when i kick your a$$ at the strip with my centri. dont come back with an excuse like my belt was slipping....no flames just an opinion....i have yet to be PROVED anything....
00s281sc368
New Member
cobra killer said:
Tim, thank you for these truthfull comparaison data
Now I think I will come and see you for a 2.2 upgrade
cobra killer
Founding Member
KB's dont just make low end tq..They make torque all the way up the powerband..The torque starts low and carries across..Alot better over all curve then a cen blower.The hp peaks just like a cen does..All in all,they just flat out make better power..
I love both blowers,but you just cant argue the fact about a KB..Well you can,but I have done alot of swaps and driven alot of both cars...If I ever build another street 2v for myself it will have a KB on it.
Now,look at it this way as well..I cannot drop ship KB's..I can however drop ship vortech/paxton.We do,and we sell alot of Vortech/paxton kits..If I was strictly in it for the money and not trying to be honest with you guys I 'd say buy a cen...I make money when an internet guy buys a cen blower.I cant make any money off someone who wants a KB from the internet..
So, actually Im an idiot..LOL BUY a CEN blower..They are alot better then the KB's.
I love both blowers,but you just cant argue the fact about a KB..Well you can,but I have done alot of swaps and driven alot of both cars...If I ever build another street 2v for myself it will have a KB on it.
Now,look at it this way as well..I cannot drop ship KB's..I can however drop ship vortech/paxton.We do,and we sell alot of Vortech/paxton kits..If I was strictly in it for the money and not trying to be honest with you guys I 'd say buy a cen...I make money when an internet guy buys a cen blower.I cant make any money off someone who wants a KB from the internet..
So, actually Im an idiot..LOL BUY a CEN blower..They are alot better then the KB's.
cobra killer
Founding Member
noxious_mustang said:lol, and this is why i dont argue...proof proof proof....i just say when i kick your a$$ at the strip with my centri. dont come back with an excuse like my belt was slipping....no flames just an opinion....i have yet to be PROVED anything....
I can tell you right now,mod for mod,all being equal the KB will win..Sorry man,its the truth...
Like I said,I have driven just about any combo of both setups for street cars..The KB flat out power the cens...
Actual comparison: Lets take the guessing game out of this discussion.
OK Lets take the guessing game out of this..
Here we have a direct comparison same car same boost.
Essentially the same Boost/hp. Same engine components.
2002 GT Vortech 14# Dyno
2002 GT KB 14#
RPM/RWH Vortech/KB
3500/210/315
4000/260/415
5000/325/415
6000/440/441
RPM/TQ Vortech/KB
3500/310/465
4000/350/465
5000/385/440
6000/380/385
Add ported heads and cam.
500 rwh/491 TQ
No drop in hp from 5500 up..
Pulls great at top end...
KB 11.9ET/119MHP
Vortech 12.3ET/115MPH (This was when I had 383rwh on vortech)
Comparisons:
Vortech
Pro:
Vortech easy at track. High rpm launch. Hang on.
Can run many times .. One after the other with out concern .
Great sound at idle.
More RPM more HP period......
Con:
Had to rev to get max boost.
Sound dissapears at WOT.
KB
Pro:
Instant Boost/Torque.
Great sound at WOT. (747 sound).
Fantastic around town. (Had to get 295/18 DR's BTW great tires for street)
Kick you in the pants torque(No need for chiropractor)
Con:
No sound at idle.
Allways concerned about heat.
Must wait for cool down period after track run.
Since I only go to the track a few times. The winner for me is the KB. Less likley to get a speeding ticket. Slam the gas . Fun over...
Interesting results with Ported heads and Cam. Dam the car pulls at high RPM just like the Vortech used to..
Would have been an intersting comparison with Vortech.
Ported Heads / Cams 11#
OK Lets take the guessing game out of this..
Here we have a direct comparison same car same boost.
Essentially the same Boost/hp. Same engine components.
2002 GT Vortech 14# Dyno
2002 GT KB 14#
RPM/RWH Vortech/KB
3500/210/315
4000/260/415
5000/325/415
6000/440/441
RPM/TQ Vortech/KB
3500/310/465
4000/350/465
5000/385/440
6000/380/385
Add ported heads and cam.
500 rwh/491 TQ
No drop in hp from 5500 up..
Pulls great at top end...
KB 11.9ET/119MHP
Vortech 12.3ET/115MPH (This was when I had 383rwh on vortech)
Comparisons:
Vortech
Pro:
Vortech easy at track. High rpm launch. Hang on.
Can run many times .. One after the other with out concern .
Great sound at idle.
More RPM more HP period......
Con:
Had to rev to get max boost.
Sound dissapears at WOT.
KB
Pro:
Instant Boost/Torque.
Great sound at WOT. (747 sound).
Fantastic around town. (Had to get 295/18 DR's BTW great tires for street)
Kick you in the pants torque(No need for chiropractor)
Con:
No sound at idle.
Allways concerned about heat.
Must wait for cool down period after track run.
Since I only go to the track a few times. The winner for me is the KB. Less likley to get a speeding ticket. Slam the gas . Fun over...
Interesting results with Ported heads and Cam. Dam the car pulls at high RPM just like the Vortech used to..
Would have been an intersting comparison with Vortech.
Ported Heads / Cams 11#
noxious_mustang
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- Oct 6, 2004
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well, what i define as "proof" and what others define it as are two different things..im not argueing...i like the kb, ive seen them run, and they are a really good street blower which is what they were designed for....if i were to build a motor for street and i had to do it over again, i would go with the kb...my previous car ran a procharger d-1sc..with a 3core intercooler, pretty much a bolt on system...i just have yet to see a kb on a stock motor outrun a stock motor with the procharger at the track that is, but i do like the kb because boost is there throughout the rpm range....
my orange-gt said:
IMHO - Build the suspension. One of the fastest cars ever built only had 300 RWHP, but, it was able to transfer the power to the ground and keep it there.
There is no need to spend a ton of money for high numbers if you sit and spin the wheels.
cobra killer said:
Hmmm, this is getting confusing
I recall seeing dyno graphs of KB 4.6 GTs showing the power dropping off starting at 6000 - 6100 rpms. I've seen numerous dyno's of centri's where the HP continues to climb well beyond that ... even with my lil GT the hp continues to climb until 6500 rpm on a stock engine.
To site an example, there is a guy named Jim Fitzgerald who has a centrifugal 2v GT that ran 10.67 at 129 (automatic trans) with 544rwhp ... well below the 663 rwhp your T-Trim example made, or the 615 the KB example made.
It is my understanding that car's like Jim's do well because HP holds longer at high rpms, and can stay in a given gear longer (maintaining acceleration longer) vs. a car that peaks at a lower rpm. This is the advantage of the "top end charge".
It's odd to me that other guys have testimony that's so different than what you are saying. They're seeing in general that centris edge out the KB's in drag racing. .. and you're basically saying KB's are much better. There are so many variables that make our comparisons less alike than we might think.
Also, YellowJacketGT, a 14psi Vortech is not a direct comparison to a 14psi KB. The Vortech can run more boost (to get more power) with octane and intercooling being the same. And I would compare your KB 11.9 @119 mph car to the former 01BlownGT who had a stock long block 2v Vortech SQ running 11.6 at 121+ mph on pump gas.
cobra killer
Founding Member
Blown00GTAuto said:Hmmm, this is getting confusing
I recall seeing dyno graphs of KB 4.6 GTs showing the power dropping off starting at 6000 - 6100 rpms. I've seen numerous dyno's of centri's where the HP continues to climb well beyond that ... even with my lil GT the hp continues to climb until 6500 rpm on a stock engine.
To site an example, there is a guy named Jim Fitzgerald who has a centrifugal 2v GT that ran 10.67 at 129 (automatic trans) with 544rwhp ... well below the 663 rwhp your T-Trim example made, or the 615 the KB example made.
It is my understanding that car's like Jim's do well because HP holds longer at high rpms, and can stay in a given gear longer (maintaining acceleration longer) vs. a car that peaks at a lower rpm. This is the advantage of the "top end charge".
It's odd to me that other guys have testimony that's so different than what you are saying. They're seeing in general that centris edge out the KB's in drag racing. .. and you're basically saying KB's are much better. There are so many variables that make our comparisons less alike than we might think.
Also, YellowJacketGT, a 14psi Vortech is not a direct comparison to a 14psi KB. The Vortech can run more boost (to get more power) with octane and intercooling being the same. And I would compare your KB 11.9 @119 mph car to the former 01BlownGT who had a stock long block 2v Vortech SQ running 11.6 at 121+ mph on pump gas.
Jims Fitz car is sitting in my shop.He has an automatic....His car is also setup to drag race .A automatic KB car just went 10.40 @ 136 this weekend.Thru a 5 speed Jims car is well over 600rwhp.His automatic /convertor isn't telling the whole HP story on his car.
The KB doesn't just make peak power down low.It makes it all the way up..
Im telling you,every single car we convert goes faster.Jim Fitz is kicking around the idea of going KB.
I have built alot of 600-700rwhp cen cars...The KB flat beats them in every area....You dont have to believe me,thats your option..Anyone who does listen will be glad they did.
Check out this months 5.0..We have a 1.7 KB car we built that made 500rwhp and 605TQ.......It pulls all the way to 6500rpm..
The 2.2 pulls past 7000rpm..You'll see a 2.2 KB GT go 9's ver shortly with only 600rwhp and an automatic..Watch.....Its coming very soon.This car is a full bodied daily driver....Its already run a fast enough 1/8 mile to go 9's in the 1/4.We just have to fix the tranny issuse.
Look,I sell and build turbo cars,cen cars and KB cars..I have nothing to gain either way.Im telling you,the KB cars are the ****...You just have to experience one.
Tim
340.29m/s
New Member
cobra killer said:
well it seems the times are changing but how many years have Centri's had better results at the track? That was what I was basing my opinions on, not on "just wait and see" or "what we have done right now". I want to see a Real Street car running a KB for a comparison. I think that would be a fair comparison since street cars can have a multitude of variables.
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