rs-turbo
Founding Member
Hi all,
Been a while since I made a post here, but got sucked up reading this one. Many good points, so thought I'd add my 5 cents. I have been an Amsoil Dealer for several years now, and was using Amsoil off and on for about 15 years before that. I'll try to avoid the debate on why you should change less or more, this is always being discussed. I will say Amsoil has promoted extended drains for over 30 years now, and were the first to promote this. Mobil 1 used to, but as they decided to stay competing more in the same price arena as the newer synthetics, they have changed their additive package and are less robost. Don't get me wrong, they are still a good oil, and if Amsoil were not out there, and knowing what I have learned in the past few years, I would be using Mobil. Here are some points, to address some of the concerns mentioned:
Warranties: First off, Amsoil does warrant their oil for whatever the rating of the oil is you end up using. The XL-7500 line, of which the 5W-20 is a part of, is a 7500 mile oil or six months. Most of their line is 25K or one year (Amsoil filter change after 12.5K or 6 months, or per filter recommendation if you use a different one). The Series 2000, which the 0W-30 mentioned here is a part of, is actually a 35K mile or one year oil. Of course, these intervals change with turbo applications, racing, etc. If there should be a failure due to the oil breaking down during that time period, Amsoil will cover it. Some Dealerships will comment that you need to change more often or void the Ford warranty. This is not true. If there is a part that fails, they MUST cover that part unless the oil was the cause of the failure. If they try to get you to use their oil and filters, then they, by law, are required to supply them free of charge. We used to run into this problem with the Harley Davidson market for years. BTW, Hastings makes the Amsoil filters per Amsoil's recommendations. This is why we are now able to purchase many Hastings products for our customers as well.
Types of oils: There are two synthetics out there now. Most ALL synthetics these days are a Group III oil. This is an oil made with a petroleum basestock. The poster that mentioned Castrol and Mobil was correct. A few years ago Castrol changed Syntech to this formula and Mobil sued them because it was not a PAO basestock, the common base at the time. Most "genuine synthetics" are man made in a lab using PAO as the base and using additives such as esters to boost the formula. This now not so new basestock is made with the same base your dino oil is made from, but is refined much better and uses additives to boost it. The question is, how long does it last? Some manufacturers are finding that these Group III fluids do well, but once the additives wear out, they are prone to the same break down as the Group II dino oils. In fact, some manufacturers who recommend synthetic gear lubes, etc, are finding they may need to specify which synthetic now to run. Almost all the synthetics out there have switched to this less expensive and more profitable Group III oil. Amsoil's XL-7500 line is a Group III. Since they only are rated for 7500 miles, this base works just fine. All their other lines are still a genuine PAO Group IV oil. Mobil 1 is still a Group IV oil, although there have been some debates on a few of their additives "watering down" the synthetic aspect of it.
Extended Drains: As mentioned, Amsoil has been doing this for 30+ years. And earlier this year in Lubes and Greases magazine, one of the industry trade mags, extended drains were discussed and how the oil industry pulls the wool over the consumer's eyes. In some cases these same oils only rated for normal drains here in the U.S. are going at least twice as long in other countries. According to the author, the U.S. does waste a lot of oil. The gentleman who wrote the article used to work for the API, so he is familiar with the inner workings. I have this article, and some others listed on my Web Site (www.technilube.com) or you can also find it on the Amsoil Corporate Web Site, if it is still posted. They just posted a follow up article he did this month. But while many of the oils out there, especialy synthetic, are able to run longer intervals, their warranty does not. So should you have an engine failure, and it indeed is because you ran the oil longer than the oil manufacture's recommended drain, you are out of luck. The article specifically mentions the Amsoil warranty, and for many, this is just extra security.
Do you need Synthetic? For most of us the answer is yes. Sure you can do normal drains with dino oil, but the synthetic is designed to flow better in cold weather, and protect in hotter temps. If you blow a radiator hose and loose all your coolant, and have no where to go but keep driving, would you trust your oil to keep protecting under these conditions. A dino oil will be falling apart once your engine hits around 260 degrees, which you probably aren't far from at normal operation (oil temps will be hotter than coolant temps). I like to know my oil will still be doing the job way over 400 degrees. This happened to me with an old E-150 van with the 5.0 that lost the water pump and I still drove about 20 miles home with no fluid. Just before home I finally had to stop, but after cooling was able to drive home, fixed the pump and ran the same oil longer. After 10K I changed my oil and did analysis, and the oil was still perfectly good. This was the Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30.
What I use. Naturally I'm fully synthetic everywhere I can to help promote my business. I run the Series 2000 0W-30 in my 99 GT. My first drain had about 20K on it, analysis said the oil was still good. Now I have a bypass filter installed, and have 27K on my second oil change. Analysis was done around 23-24K (have to check) and the oil was still good. I will be honest, my viscocity did change a bit this time around and it is now up to a 40 weight, but still fully capable, and showed no wear at all taking place in the engine. The viscocity change is believed to be due to some of the mods I have done and a PCV valve I found then found bad.
About 5W-20 oils. This was done by Honda and Ford to get a little better MPG for the records. The engines never changed from those previously using 5W-30 oil. I'm using the 5W-30 in my wife's 2002 Honda. But studies now are showing many of the 5W-20 oils are not holding up. When they get hot, the lesser robost oils are dropping down to around a 10 weight and actually allowing wear to take place. Sure you are getting better MPG at first, but around 100K on the engine, they are finding more wear than when using the 5W-30. I believe it was Noria who first mentioned this. Oddly, some of the same cars now recommended to use the 5W-20 are still recommended to use the 5W-30 outside the U.S.
Other synthetic fluids: I'm using Amsoil's ATF (Mercon V) in my 5 speed tranny, and the Series 2000 75W-90 in the rear. Switching to synthetics in these areas you will probably see the temp drop, if you have a way of monitoring, and possibly even an increase in MPG. One of the Dealers I know works a lot with the Powerstroke community and they were finding Ford's fill for life synthetic fluid in the rear wasn't holding up and after a few thousand miles of use had lost it's viscocity and gears discolored from heat. I believe the fluid Ford uses is a Group III synthetic. When I changed the auto tranny fluid in my 96 Grand Voyager, my MPG went up approx 1-2 miles.
I don't want to flame anyone here. If you like changing more and fell better doing so, more power to you, and maybe it's even a good thing depending on the brand of oil you are using, especially if it is a Group III oil. While, myself and the other Dealers I work with promote the extended drains, like the big oil manufacturers, we sure don't mind if someone wants to buy after every 3K.
Been a while since I made a post here, but got sucked up reading this one. Many good points, so thought I'd add my 5 cents. I have been an Amsoil Dealer for several years now, and was using Amsoil off and on for about 15 years before that. I'll try to avoid the debate on why you should change less or more, this is always being discussed. I will say Amsoil has promoted extended drains for over 30 years now, and were the first to promote this. Mobil 1 used to, but as they decided to stay competing more in the same price arena as the newer synthetics, they have changed their additive package and are less robost. Don't get me wrong, they are still a good oil, and if Amsoil were not out there, and knowing what I have learned in the past few years, I would be using Mobil. Here are some points, to address some of the concerns mentioned:
Warranties: First off, Amsoil does warrant their oil for whatever the rating of the oil is you end up using. The XL-7500 line, of which the 5W-20 is a part of, is a 7500 mile oil or six months. Most of their line is 25K or one year (Amsoil filter change after 12.5K or 6 months, or per filter recommendation if you use a different one). The Series 2000, which the 0W-30 mentioned here is a part of, is actually a 35K mile or one year oil. Of course, these intervals change with turbo applications, racing, etc. If there should be a failure due to the oil breaking down during that time period, Amsoil will cover it. Some Dealerships will comment that you need to change more often or void the Ford warranty. This is not true. If there is a part that fails, they MUST cover that part unless the oil was the cause of the failure. If they try to get you to use their oil and filters, then they, by law, are required to supply them free of charge. We used to run into this problem with the Harley Davidson market for years. BTW, Hastings makes the Amsoil filters per Amsoil's recommendations. This is why we are now able to purchase many Hastings products for our customers as well.
Types of oils: There are two synthetics out there now. Most ALL synthetics these days are a Group III oil. This is an oil made with a petroleum basestock. The poster that mentioned Castrol and Mobil was correct. A few years ago Castrol changed Syntech to this formula and Mobil sued them because it was not a PAO basestock, the common base at the time. Most "genuine synthetics" are man made in a lab using PAO as the base and using additives such as esters to boost the formula. This now not so new basestock is made with the same base your dino oil is made from, but is refined much better and uses additives to boost it. The question is, how long does it last? Some manufacturers are finding that these Group III fluids do well, but once the additives wear out, they are prone to the same break down as the Group II dino oils. In fact, some manufacturers who recommend synthetic gear lubes, etc, are finding they may need to specify which synthetic now to run. Almost all the synthetics out there have switched to this less expensive and more profitable Group III oil. Amsoil's XL-7500 line is a Group III. Since they only are rated for 7500 miles, this base works just fine. All their other lines are still a genuine PAO Group IV oil. Mobil 1 is still a Group IV oil, although there have been some debates on a few of their additives "watering down" the synthetic aspect of it.
Extended Drains: As mentioned, Amsoil has been doing this for 30+ years. And earlier this year in Lubes and Greases magazine, one of the industry trade mags, extended drains were discussed and how the oil industry pulls the wool over the consumer's eyes. In some cases these same oils only rated for normal drains here in the U.S. are going at least twice as long in other countries. According to the author, the U.S. does waste a lot of oil. The gentleman who wrote the article used to work for the API, so he is familiar with the inner workings. I have this article, and some others listed on my Web Site (www.technilube.com) or you can also find it on the Amsoil Corporate Web Site, if it is still posted. They just posted a follow up article he did this month. But while many of the oils out there, especialy synthetic, are able to run longer intervals, their warranty does not. So should you have an engine failure, and it indeed is because you ran the oil longer than the oil manufacture's recommended drain, you are out of luck. The article specifically mentions the Amsoil warranty, and for many, this is just extra security.
Do you need Synthetic? For most of us the answer is yes. Sure you can do normal drains with dino oil, but the synthetic is designed to flow better in cold weather, and protect in hotter temps. If you blow a radiator hose and loose all your coolant, and have no where to go but keep driving, would you trust your oil to keep protecting under these conditions. A dino oil will be falling apart once your engine hits around 260 degrees, which you probably aren't far from at normal operation (oil temps will be hotter than coolant temps). I like to know my oil will still be doing the job way over 400 degrees. This happened to me with an old E-150 van with the 5.0 that lost the water pump and I still drove about 20 miles home with no fluid. Just before home I finally had to stop, but after cooling was able to drive home, fixed the pump and ran the same oil longer. After 10K I changed my oil and did analysis, and the oil was still perfectly good. This was the Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30.
What I use. Naturally I'm fully synthetic everywhere I can to help promote my business. I run the Series 2000 0W-30 in my 99 GT. My first drain had about 20K on it, analysis said the oil was still good. Now I have a bypass filter installed, and have 27K on my second oil change. Analysis was done around 23-24K (have to check) and the oil was still good. I will be honest, my viscocity did change a bit this time around and it is now up to a 40 weight, but still fully capable, and showed no wear at all taking place in the engine. The viscocity change is believed to be due to some of the mods I have done and a PCV valve I found then found bad.
About 5W-20 oils. This was done by Honda and Ford to get a little better MPG for the records. The engines never changed from those previously using 5W-30 oil. I'm using the 5W-30 in my wife's 2002 Honda. But studies now are showing many of the 5W-20 oils are not holding up. When they get hot, the lesser robost oils are dropping down to around a 10 weight and actually allowing wear to take place. Sure you are getting better MPG at first, but around 100K on the engine, they are finding more wear than when using the 5W-30. I believe it was Noria who first mentioned this. Oddly, some of the same cars now recommended to use the 5W-20 are still recommended to use the 5W-30 outside the U.S.
Other synthetic fluids: I'm using Amsoil's ATF (Mercon V) in my 5 speed tranny, and the Series 2000 75W-90 in the rear. Switching to synthetics in these areas you will probably see the temp drop, if you have a way of monitoring, and possibly even an increase in MPG. One of the Dealers I know works a lot with the Powerstroke community and they were finding Ford's fill for life synthetic fluid in the rear wasn't holding up and after a few thousand miles of use had lost it's viscocity and gears discolored from heat. I believe the fluid Ford uses is a Group III synthetic. When I changed the auto tranny fluid in my 96 Grand Voyager, my MPG went up approx 1-2 miles.
I don't want to flame anyone here. If you like changing more and fell better doing so, more power to you, and maybe it's even a good thing depending on the brand of oil you are using, especially if it is a Group III oil. While, myself and the other Dealers I work with promote the extended drains, like the big oil manufacturers, we sure don't mind if someone wants to buy after every 3K.