upgrades for v6

[Warhorse Racing]

Yes, the V8 and Cobra of this year have the same Master Cylinder where the V6 has a different one. Makes no sense to me with the Calipers, rotors, pads being the same on both.

If you are going to upgrade to the Cobra Parts, you MUST change the Master Cylinder also

The V8 and Cobra cars have Hydroboost, which means they do have a different master cylinder than a V6. But, as you can see in this video, you do NOT need to change the master cylinder to run 94-04 Cobra brakes on a New Edge V6 Mustang.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5srUYKXj1s&t

 

[mjcarguy]

Thanks @WarHorse and @kiddiccarus

How much bigger are the cobra over the stock v6? are the duralast gold good enough, or is there a better brand? Definitely dont need to spend Brembo money

 

[kiddiccarus]

WELL aint that something......

OK @WarHorse not to hijack this......

I have a 1995 V6 (With a 2002 V6 Engine) would I need to swap the Master Cylinder on mine if I went to the 95 Cobra Brake System? I assume YES because I cant get lucky. I am not planning to do the Upgrade, I am just looking for the answer really.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

Thanks @WarHorse and @kiddiccarus

How much bigger are the cobra over the stock v6? are the duralast gold good enough, or is there a better brand? Definitely dont need to spend Brembo money

Stock 94-04 V6/GT rotors are 11 inches in front and 10.5 in the rear. Cobra rotors are 13 inches up front and 11.65 in the rear. They are a huge improvement over stock. But, in all honesty, overkill in a lighter Mustang that is mainly street driven. And, if you don't change to Cobra rear brakes, the balance can be a bit off.

I'm not a fan of auto parts store brake pads. I use Hawk HPS pads on my daily driver and they are a big step up from auto parts store pads, without being "race" pads. The car I use to test Novice School autocross courses has Hawk HPS pads and they hold up well under those tough conditions.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

WELL aint that something......

OK @WarHorse not to hijack this......

I have a 1995 V6 (With a 2002 V6 Engine) would I need to swap the Master Cylinder on mine if I went to the 95 Cobra Brake System? I assume YES because I cant get lucky

Sorry for the delay, I had to do some checking...

Looks like the 94-95 V6/GT master cylinder has a different bore size (1 1/16) than the 94-95 Cobra (15/16). That will impact pedal feel, travel and effort. If I'm correct, that means MORE pedal effort and LESS pedal travel.

And, changing to the Cobra calipers will add more clamping power (more/larger pistons). I would recommend double-checking this with someone who has actually done the swap on a 1995 V6, but I think it will work, you just might have to deal with some pedal feel issues.

My setup is used for autocross (and to drive to and from events), so it's not a 1-to-1 comparison to a "normal" setup. But, the brakes on my 2004 V6 are (intentionally) very, very touchy. The pedal is extremely firm and there's very little travel. The braided lines and the pads play a big part in that feel.

 

[mjcarguy]

Stock 94-04 V6/GT rotors are 11 inches in front and 10.5 in the rear. Cobra rotors are 13 inches up front and 11.65 in the rear. They are a huge improvement over stock. But, in all honesty, overkill in a lighter Mustang that is mainly street driven. And, if you don't change to Cobra rear brakes, the balance can be a bit off.

I'm not a fan of auto parts store brake pads. I use Hawk HPS pads on my daily driver and they are a big step up from auto parts store pads, without being "race" pads. The car I use to test Novice School autocross courses has Hawk HPS pads and they hold up well under those tough conditions.

Ok, So my v6 has the traction control on it, If i upgrade to the cobra brakes, would I need to do that custom work you did, or would I be ok?

Where is a good place to look for parts?

I did find this for Pads/rotors HAWK HPS PADS & CENTRIC 120 SERIES ROTORS

 

[Warhorse Racing]

Ok, So my v6 has the traction control on it, If i upgrade to the cobra brakes, would I need to do that custom work you did, or would I be ok?

Where is a good place to look for parts?

I did find this for Pads/rotors HAWK HPS PADS & CENTRIC 120 SERIES ROTORS

I had those issues because the IRS cars only came with traction control, and the IRS rear brake hoses are unique to the IRS cars.

Your SRA car should NOT have an issue with the hard line that goes across the rear of the car. If I'm correct, your TC/ABS car will have a different hard line setup going to the rear brakes.

But, before you order parts, check to make sure you only have 1 port on both rear brake-to-caliper hoses (where they meet the hard line).

If you do, you should be okay with rear brake hoses that work for the 99-04 GT/V6/Bullitt/Mach 1.

I'm not a fan of Centric parts. I've had bad experiences with their calipers and it kind of tainted the brand for me. But, in all fairness, I haven't used Centric rotors, so they might be okay.

I've had great results with Power Stop rotors. I think they make a Zinc coated set of plain rotors for our cars. I have heard that Rock Auto is now selling the Cobra front calipers for a very good price. I get my Power Stop rotors from American Muscle, and LMR has good prices on J&M braided lines. The Hawk HPS pads are available at many different retailers and prices can vary a lot, so check around.

 

[mjcarguy]

I've had great results with Power Stop rotors. I think they make a Zinc coated set of plain rotors for our cars. I have heard that Rock Auto is now selling the Cobra front calipers for a very good price. I get my Power Stop rotors from American Muscle, and LMR has good prices on J&M braided lines. The Hawk HPS pads are available at many different retailers and prices can vary a lot, so check around.

Thanks,

I went to Rock Auto, looks like they sell a nice kit from Power Stop (Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Upgrade Kit) My guess is this would be a nice upgrade from the stock. I think the switch to the Cobra setup is probably overkill since I am not trying to race this car, and I doubt I will ever reach Cobra HP/torque outputs from upgrades to the v6 engine. There is a Z26 package that has upgraded carbon-fiber ceramic pads, only ~$20 difference in price.

Thoughts?

 

[Warhorse Racing]

Thanks,

I went to Rock Auto, looks like they sell a nice kit from Power Stop (Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Upgrade Kit) My guess is this would be a nice upgrade from the stock. I think the switch to the Cobra setup is probably overkill since I am not trying to race this car, and I doubt I will ever reach Cobra HP/torque outputs from upgrades to the v6 engine. There is a Z26 package that has upgraded carbon-fiber ceramic pads, only ~$20 difference in price.

Thoughts?

Are your calipers failing? Or are they leaking? If not, there's no need to replace the calipers. The Power Stop calipers are the same as the stock ones on your car (just red). It's a good idea to check the rubber piston seals on your calipers to see if they are torn/leaking before ordering anything. If they need to be rebuilt, and you don't intend on rebuilding them yourself, new calipers can be a cost-effective alternative.

There's no real benefit to cross-drilled and slotted rotors on the street. And, they can develop cracks over time. Because my pads are so aggressive, my rotors only last a couple of seasons (about 6k miles). My CD/S rotors haven't cracked, but my cars aren't daily driven, driven in cold weather, or driven in the rain very often. So, I can't give you an accurate review of how they hold up under normal driving.

I have not personally used either of the Power Stop pads, but looking at the descriptions it seems like the pads in the Z26 kit would be equivalent to the Hawk HPS. These would be a "performance street" pad. That implies that the Z23 pads are closer to a top-tier auto parts store pad.

The price for the complete kit is very reasonable, even with the Z26 upgrade. But, it doesn't include braided brake lines, which will significantly improve pedal feel.

If you're not looking for "race" brakes, but want a noticeable upgrade for street driving, I would stick with plain rotors, and get the better pads and braided lines. This will make the brakes feel much more positive and present (and, if your rubber hoses are stock, they are 20 years old). If your calipers need to be rebuilt, a kit will probably offer the best bang for the buck.

 

[mjcarguy]

Are your calipers failing? Or are they leaking? If not, there's no need to replace the calipers. The Power Stop calipers are the same as the stock ones on your car (just red). It's a good idea to check the rubber piston seals on your calipers to see if they are torn/leaking before ordering anything. If they need to be rebuilt, and you don't intend on rebuilding them yourself, new calipers can be a cost-effective alternative.

If you're not looking for "race" brakes, but want a noticeable upgrade for street driving, I would stick with plain rotors, and get the better pads and braided lines. This will make the brakes feel much more positive and present (and, if your rubber hoses are stock, they are 20 years old). If your calipers need to be rebuilt, a kit will probably offer the best bang for the buck.

@kiddiccarus @Warhorse Racing

I had the car in the shop this week, and they mentioned that the front brakes might be seizing up, and that it could be a caliper going bad, they didn't mention seeing any leaks. They are a good shop, so I trust that they aren't trying to pull one on me.

If I do have to replace the calipers, and stick with the Base/GT setup, I have seen several from Cardone, Duralast, ACDelco, NuGeon and Power Stop. I tried looking for Motorcraft, but cant seem to find anywhere. I know ACDelco is an OEM...

I found the brake lines - Russell SS brakeline kit
I found these Hawk HPS pads, guessing these are not quite as good as the plus that you are using, but I am not autocrossing.
Are these the Power Stop rotors you were mentioning? Evolution Geomet Coated
I also saw these Duralast Gold rotor, are they worth the extra few dollars over the standard duralast?


I need to look to see what shape the rear brakes are in, if I decide to replace those rotors, is it better to go with solid or vented?

 

[Warhorse Racing]

@kiddiccarus @Warhorse Racing

I had the car in the shop this week, and they mentioned that the front brakes might be seizing up, and that it could be a caliper going bad, they didn't mention seeing any leaks. They are a good shop, so I trust that they aren't trying to pull one on me.

If I do have to replace the calipers, and stick with the Base/GT setup, I have seen several from Cardone, Duralast, ACDelco, NuGeon and Power Stop. I tried looking for Motorcraft, but cant seem to find anywhere. I know ACDelco is an OEM...

I found the brake lines - Russell SS brakeline kit
I found these Hawk HPS pads, guessing these are not quite as good as the plus that you are using, but I am not autocrossing.
Are these the Power Stop rotors you were mentioning? Evolution Geomet Coated
I also saw these Duralast Gold rotor, are they worth the extra few dollars over the standard duralast?


I need to look to see what shape the rear brakes are in, if I decide to replace those rotors, is it better to go with solid or vented?

You always have the option of having your existing calipers rebuilt with a fairly inexpensive kit. But, a shop might charge as much as a new caliper would cost to do the rebuild.

I don't have personal experience with any of those calipers, but I imagine that online reviews would be pretty bad for calipers that don't work. Always make sure a remanufactured caliper has thread sealant on the bleeder. Many times the calipers come WITHOUT sealant and they leak, which causes you to tighten the bleeder until the threads break trying to stop the leak (this happened to me). I always install Russell speed bleeders; they have sealant and they only cost about $20. Cheap insurance against leaks/damaging threads (and they make bleeding the brakes much easier). There will most likely be some warning on the calipers that reads: "Warranty doesn't cover threads". So, it's always good to check the threads/sealant prior to installing them.

You would not want to use the HP-Plus pads. While they can be used on the street, they make a lot of noise, throw off a lot of dust and eat up rotors. The HPS would be the most aggressive pad I'd recommend for a daily driven street car.

The rotors appear to be the plain version of the "Evolution"; and they are coated. I think they'll work fine. Personally, I think the Power Stop rotors will be better than either of the Duralast Rotors.

I don't think you'll be able to upgrade to a vented rear rotor in the 10.5 inch size on your car. The Cobra vented rotors are 11.65 inches and would be larger than your 11 inch front rotors.

 

[kiddiccarus]

Yes Powerstop is better than Duralast. I only used the Autozone website for examples because the site is friendly to navigate. In my shop, I will NOT call Autozone for my first stop on ANY part they have. The tools are ok to use and have a great warranty, but the parts are JUNK. It is a great site for reference material, but avoid purchasing there like Covid-19 (Ha I was going to say the Plague)

My first choice for my customers will always be Wagner Products. Over the years, I have been impressed with their quality and the very low dust that will come from their ceramic pads. If this will end up being a daily driver, they really are all the quality you will need. I would NOT go any lower than them.

 

[mrshaund79]

I was dead set on a swap till I came across this. Now its got me wondering if I could just rebuild the 6 and build it up a bit? Won't be until a bit down the road but gives me something to think about it.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

I was dead set on a swap till I came across this. Now its got me wondering if I could just rebuild the 6 and build it up a bit? Won't be until a bit down the road but gives me something to think about it.

If you have any questions about getting your V6 to perform better, I'm happy to help. There's an entire series of videos on my YouTube channel about what I did to make my V6 capable of beating V8s on an autocross course.

 

[mrshaund79]

If you have any questions about getting your V6 to perform better, I'm happy to help. There's an entire series of videos on my YouTube channel about what I did to make my V6 capable of beating V8s on an autocross course.

I do have one question, if I do build the v6 would I need to swap the rear end and suspension, I have been reading more and keep seeing that the stock rear ends cannot hold up to many upgrades? Could I swap for a GT rear end?

 

[Warhorse Racing]

The upgrade depends on what you plan on doing with the car. For street use, the 7.5 rear end should be able to handle the bolt-ons I used. If you're going to be autocrossing or using the car for track events, you will want to make it stronger.

You can get a Limited Slip Differential and rear gears for the 7.5 rear end, but, because the 8.8 is more popular, upgrading the 7.5 rear end can be as expensive as finding a used 8.8 online. If you plan on using the car for performance driving, you will want the LSD.

The 8.8 is a stronger rear end, but if you stay under 250 hp, a built LSD 7.5 should be fine for performance applications.

An 8.8 from a New Edge GT will bolt in to a V6. You can find them used at MPS Auto Salvage on Ebay. MPS also sells completely rebuilt rear end assemblies. They are pricey, but I use one on my 1992 GT autocross car and it has held up really well.

The suspension parts that attach to a 99-04 GT rear end are the same as the parts on your V6. The only differences between the rear ends are the size of the differential housing, the differential and the ring and pinion.

Your V6 probably didn't come with a rear sway bar, but you can find an OEM GT rear sway bar online.

Most aftermarket parts (UCAs, LCAs, sway bars, quad shocks, shocks) will work on both the 8.8 and 7.5 rear ends.