What setup do you recommend for more power

[90lxcoupe]

I guess my mind isnt as simple as the average mustang guy. Trick flows rating is also what the kit they sell will make on a 302. The parts in that kit that limit power are not the cylinder heads

There is no reason ever to spin a motor to 8500 that peaks at 7500. Id shift that at 8000 rpm, which isnt that high in the drag racing world and 8000 rpm can even be done with a factory HR lifter. Also, tell me what exotic parts are in that motor... The only thing i could see is the intake manifold and the exhaust. Definitley not a 20k motor. Maybe 10-12k

 

[2000xp8]

That's about a $6000 shortblock, then throw in another $2500 for the reworked heads.
You are already at $8500 and you still need high port headers and the rest of the parts.
Not sure what rockers are on that car, but i assure you the proper ones are from jesel, and those cost more than the heads alone.

There really is nothing ordinary about those parts, probably wouldn't last a week in the hands of most of the stangnet members on the street.
I know those heads can make big numbers, they have long been a favorite of my buddies, but high ports and standard wedges are light years apart.

I think you are pretty knowledgeable, but i also think you need to differentiate between what is for a car meant to run the quarter mile and one that gets driven on the street a little better.
Not every setup is meant to live life a quarter mile at a time.

Ever notice the guys that want to/claim they run high rpm around here always disappear? It's because for street duty it's too high maintenance and unreliable, i'm guessing they either can't pull it off or they blow it up and never come back. High rpm tears stock blocks apart, that includes the mexican and the B block.

Parts best suited for street cars are the ones that are simple, effective and reliable.
I'll take a larger headed combo over a small head high rpm combo anyday.

BTW, proof to me is not an engine dyno, it's driving it like you stole it for 3000+ miles without having to take it apart.

 

[84Ttop]

Not to be a smart a$$ but can someone remind me why we aren't using a power adder again? There is no reason why this car can't go in the 10's on a reasonable hit and how much of that NA horse power is really usable on the street? Maybe I'm just cheap, i don't know but if you are on a budget and you already have the nitrous setup then simply rock it, imo.

Ok, now i guess one of you can beat me up for speaking my mind. lol

 

[84Ttop]

BTW, proof to me is not an engine dyno, it's driving it like you stole it for 3000+ miles without having to take it apart.

Making that effort, I'll let you know once we can log some street miles and hit a few true street races.

 

[2000xp8]

Not to be a smart a$$ but can someone remind me why we aren't using a power adder again? There is no reason why this car can't go in the 10's on a reasonable hit and how much of that NA horse power is really usable on the street? Maybe I'm just cheap, i don't know but if you are on a budget and you already have the nitrous setup then simply rock it, imo.

Ok, now i guess one of you can beat me up for speaking my mind. lol

Once you have a stock blocked 347 there is little use for a supercharger, it's just not cost effective on an engine that can't put up with much more power.
A good 347 should be anywhere from 400-450rwhp, spending 3 to 4 grand to get another 50rwhp just doesn't make sense.

(not beating you up, your question was a fair one).

 

[84Ttop]

Honestly I don't see the need for even a stroker kit in a stock block. The increased rod angle on the wrist pins puts a lot of stress on the cylinder walls especially when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke. I've personally built two different foxes with stock bottom ends one with a novi 2000 that went10.35 with ported performer rpms and another that went 10.90 with out of the box trick flows. What I haven't seen is a na 347 run those kind of times in a stock block or with the same heads. I will respectfully disagree and say the stroker kit is not cost effective.

 

[2000xp8]

I will respectfully disagree and say the stroker kit is not cost effective.

The debate here really isn't the stroker kit, he already has a 347, kinda late for that.
I've seen it both ways, 302 with a supercharger, 347 with better heads. I think that is personal preference. Almost for sure the aspirated setup will make more power, just as the 347 will be more reliable and less likely to blow up the engine (due to easily exceeding stock block limits with an SC) or blow out gaskets.

 

[clement]

Honestly I don't see the need for even a stroker kit in a stock block. The increased rod angle on the wrist pins puts a lot of stress on the cylinder walls especially when the piston is at the bottom of the stroke. I've personally built two different foxes with stock bottom ends one with a novi 2000 that went10.35 with ported performer rpms and another that went 10.90 with out of the box trick flows. What I haven't seen is a na 347 run those kind of times in a stock block or with the same heads. I will respectfully disagree and say the stroker kit is not cost effective.

are you really going to compare a blower car that gets airflow no matter what to a NA combo where everything has to be right? is piston scuffing an issue since the bore is harder than the aluminum pistons, it can be if you have too much piston rock at BDC. if someone that doesnt pay attention to details assembles one it probably wont live long. ive seen shortblocks that i wouldnt put in my beater run great with boost. the problem you end up having with those is after a season you pull the crank out, all the bearings look great except the #1 main because to go 10s on a serpentine setup you have to run a decent amount of belt tension that pulls on the crank snout. and with a cast crank thats a a problem. they all have their pros and cons.

if you havent seen a fast NA car, i dont know what to tell you. my buddy and i put his stock block, scat 9000 crank 347 shortblock under my rhs 215s. at 2900lbs it was a 10.0@128 mph car in good air. at this point its had over 500 passes on it with a cast crank and has won around $5000 in NMRA prize money.

 

[90lxcoupe]

There really is nothing ordinary about those parts, probably wouldn't last a week in the hands of most of the stangnet members on the street.

I respectfully disagree. My street motor has more exotic parts in it that people said wouldnt last one season without needing rings. I have about 5000 street miles and around 100 passes without a rebuild, and the last time i had the heads off the motor, everything looked mint and was blessed by my engine builder. This is with a piston that has a compression height of less than 1'' Everyone told me the motor would make awesome power, but not be reliable.

I think you are pretty knowledgeable, but i also think you need to differentiate between what is for a car meant to run the quarter mile and one that gets driven on the street a little better.
Not every setup is meant to live life a quarter mile at a time.

Ever notice the guys that want to/claim they run high rpm around here always disappear? It's because for street duty it's too high maintenance and unreliable, i'm guessing they either can't pull it off or they blow it up and never come back. High rpm tears stock blocks apart, that includes the mexican and the B block.

I appreciate the compliment, I think you have a good knowledge base also, but again, ill disagree on the high rpm needing maintenence and being unreliable. If the valvetrain geometry is right, there is not any good reason it would be unreliable. I have personally spun OEM ford, 100% stock hydraulic roller lifter to 7500rpms on a few occasions, and have over 50 passes shifting the car over 7000rpm. Never had to touch the rockers, no maintenance required. I did check them once because the upper intake was off for my own piece of mind. My cam grinder Dan Rawls has personally spun factory HR lifters to 8800 in NMRA EFI renegade. Also, look up Jake Stetlers drag week chevelle, running like 5.13 gears, 28'' tire, NO OVERDRIVE, and the motor spins to 8400 rpms. He had 5000 street miles on his valvetrain, with no problems. Very impressive to me. "Racecar" parts can be used on the street if done right, and it can be reliable.

Parts best suited for street cars are the ones that are simple, effective and reliable.
I'll take a larger headed combo over a small head high rpm combo anyday.

I do agree with this, but in the OP's case, i wouldnt rush to change the heads when he has restrictions that, in my opinion, are really holding the combination back

BTW, proof to me is not an engine dyno, it's driving it like you stole it for 3000+ miles without having to take it apart.

I agree, chassis dynos arent going to tell you much either, to me, my accurate HP numbers come from raceweight and MPH

 

[84Ttop]

are you really going to compare a blower car that gets airflow no matter what to a NA combo where everything has to be right? is piston scuffing an issue since the bore is harder than the aluminum pistons, it can be if you have too much piston rock at BDC. if someone that doesnt pay attention to details assembles one it probably wont live long. ive seen shortblocks that i wouldnt put in my beater run great with boost. the problem you end up having with those is after a season you pull the crank out, all the bearings look great except the #1 main because to go 10s on a serpentine setup you have to run a decent amount of belt tension that pulls on the crank snout. and with a cast crank thats a a problem. they all have their pros and cons.

A stock junkyard shortblock with over 100,000 miles and 3 seasons in the 10's along with street miles disagrees.

And for the record I have seen fast na cars, no doubt. You just can't compare a 170cc trickflow to a 215cc rhs

 

[clement]

A stock junkyard shortblock with over 100,000 miles and 3 seasons in the 10's along with street miles disagrees.

And for the record I have seen fast na cars, no doubt. You just can't compare a 170cc trickflow to a 215cc rhs

so youve pulled the #1 main cap lately on your cast crank stock shortblock? as of 2 years ago before the price of aluminum went up you could put together a complete set of RHS 215s with decent valvetrain for the price of TWs set up the same. other than target cross section for the displacement, the quality is pretty similar.

had a buddy with a 93 cobra he bought new that i put an A trim on the first week he had it. by 96 we had moved from the A trim to a B then an S and some TW heads, and a wolverine cam. one day he took it to the line for another 10.80s@128 pass. about 300 feet out the snout of the crank broke off of this 30k mile stock shortblock. it kicked the rods out of the block, the balancer went through the radiator, it bent valves, the broken crank broke the tremec as well as destroyed the vortech as water and oil went under the slicks causing him to narrowly miss the wall. i know how reliable they are, they are great until the second they come apart.

 

[84Ttop]

i just happen to have that motor out on the stand now, i'll pull the #1 main cap and take a pic this afternoon when i head over to the shop. we pulled it only because the ring seal has gone away i'll be honing it and gapping a new set of rings for it in the next week or so and back to action for next season. I have seen quite a few of these motors come apart as you have said, hell we split the block on one and drove it w/ 8psi of oil pressure about a half hour home. i have seen pictures of the cranks break but i have only ever split blocks never broken a crank. we did have one that wore the trust out in only a few passes but that was due to a convertor problem not a crank problem.

 

[clement]

its always fun to check the main bearing clearence on #1 and #3, then compare the two.

 

[nflfreak43]

those trick flow heads you can have ported and bigger valves installed to flow well more than the 205 trick flows..

have a buddy that has a set on his 1400 hp 408 stroker twin turbo setup in his race truck..