12.8s, reliability, cornering ability

[Gearbanger 101]

Assuming he learns to launch from the hole, and doesn't spin the tires like crazy. If he gets a roots style supercharger, and just punches the pedal, he's going to spin six ways from Sunday.

I've seen guys blow drag radials off the same way. You don't have to be the greatest driver to hit 12's, but you can't be an idiot either. It's going to be a lot easier to run 12's with a blower than a N/A set up....that's a given.

 

[FalconGuy016]

These are the EXACT qualities I want out of my Mustang sometime. Even down to the 12.8 . Although, I just say, around 12.8, but still... wow!

The only thing I'm doing different is I am going for the turbo route. Rear turbo that is, with STS, when the kit comes out (expected in a few monthes). The reason I chose this, probably less economical, route is because I believe it will be the easiest on the engine. Lowest psi per HP return, and of course it's "free" power - no belt on the engine.

Granted, the difference between that mild turbo setup and a mild S/C setup in terms of reliability are probably negligible with a good tune. But I also just really love turbos

 

[Gearbanger 101]

The only thing I'm doing different is I am going for the turbo route. Rear turbo that is, with STS, when the kit comes out (expected in a few monthes). The reason I chose this, probably less economical, route is because I believe it will be the easiest on the engine. Lowest psi per HP return, and of course it's "free" power - no belt on the engine.

Although I'm not a fan at all of the rear mounted turbo set up, the one nice thing that I will admit is that they would be perfect for anyone trying to keep weight distribution as close to 50/50 as possible. Any supercharger is going to add anywhere from 50-100lbs to the front end of the car, which will have a slightly negative effect on handling. How negative.....well, the power trade of makes it easy to live with for me, but if every ounce counts.....

That being said....No turbo set up is well suited for anything beyond street or drag strip duty. The power band is far too peaky to be controlled for any Auto-X event.

Catch 22

 

[hotmustang331]

Nice quote mang. So do you powershift? Or granny-shift really fast?

Side question: How long do NItto DR's last anyway?

I actually dont powershift...but I think it comes VERY close. I dont powershift any faster...I shift at the same speed either way, but my tranny seems to shift a little better if I let off the gas a bit...or maybe I need more practice and dont have the rhythm down as well. I dont like to PS anyways, I feel its bad on my tranny...atleast when I miss a gear lol.
I can however powershift 3rd without issue...actually there is only a VERY slight climb of RPM between the shift, so I really dont think it helps me much anyways.

 

[hotmustang331]

Although I'm not a fan at all of the rear mounted turbo set up, the one nice thing that I will admit is that they would be perfect for anyone trying to keep weight distribution as close to 50/50 as possible. Any supercharger is going to add anywhere from 50-100lbs to the front end of the car, which will have a slightly negative effect on handling. How negative.....well, the power trade of makes it easy to live with for me, but if every ounce counts.....

That being said....No turbo set up is well suited for anything beyond street or drag strip duty. The power band is far too peaky to be controlled for any Auto-X event.

Catch 22

^Agreed....when you let off or pedal the throttle, then your BOV dumps all your boost...so you get a lag. turbos are NOT good for auto X or corner carving IMO. But im sure if they are setup coorectly...SPECIFICALLY for a power rang of a race car, then they would work well.

Roots or TS is probably the best type blower for an all purpose street car. You have plenty of power whenever and where ever you want it.
Problems at the track with roots/TS are really driver related....people want to just nail it when they roll off the line in 1st gear and you really cant do that.

Turbos are even harder because power just surges on and when you pedal it, BOV opens and power just drops off lol. Its probably pretty tricky

 

[40th GT]

These are the EXACT qualities I want out of my Mustang sometime. Even down to the 12.8 . Although, I just say, around 12.8, but still... wow!

Let me guess, is it 12.8 because you also want to rape some F-bodies?

 

[hotmustang331]

^ Your going to need more than that

 

[FalconGuy016]

Although I'm not a fan at all of the rear mounted turbo set up, the one nice thing that I will admit is that they would be perfect for anyone trying to keep weight distribution as close to 50/50 as possible. Any supercharger is going to add anywhere from 50-100lbs to the front end of the car, which will have a slightly negative effect on handling. How negative.....well, the power trade of makes it easy to live with for me, but if every ounce counts.....

That being said....No turbo set up is well suited for anything beyond street or drag strip duty. The power band is far too peaky to be controlled for any Auto-X event.

Catch 22

I'm not so sure about that. In an AutoX situation, as long as you can downshift properly and agressively, a turbo will be perfectly fine. If you can keep it in the 3000+ rpm range, which is easy enough even on the street, spool isn't going to be an issue. I'm not trying to say it's any better than a supercharger in that regard, it definitely isn't, but in the end I don't think it would matter. The 50/50 argument though is most imporant in an AutoX situation however.

 

[40th GT]

^ Your going to need more than that

I've read that stock ls1 f-bodies run something like 12.9-13.0. I guess a 12.8 isn't enough to 'rape' them, but it'd be enough to beat'em..right? If not then oh well, there's always someone faster..

 

[DBMSTNG]

Assuming he learns to launch from the hole, and doesn't spin the tires like crazy. If he gets a roots style supercharger, and just punches the pedal, he's going to spin six ways from Sunday.

 

[hotmustang331]

Well on DRs, I think a stock M6 SS can run 12.8s. Usually they are low 13 second cars. Although it doesnt take much for them to be a VERY fast.

From a highway run, my car wouldnt pull very fast from a stock 02 SS, although I havnt ran any in my current trim.

 

[40th GT]

How about supporting mods? Do I need to upgrade the MAF with a 8psi Mongoose kit?

Or can I have DD reliability without other upgrades?

 

[Jackie Chan]

full exhaust, cams, adj road race susp and thats easy 12's with a decent tire. ive gone 12's na on 16 and 17 inch tires with a stock susp and a lowered koni setup...

getting a power adder to only run in the 12's is GAY

 

[Dark Knight GT]

full exhaust, cams, adj road race susp and thats easy 12's with a decent tire. ive gone 12's na on 16 and 17 inch tires with a stock susp and a lowered koni setup...

getting a power adder to only run in the 12's is GAY

When he says adjustable, I would avoid QA1 adjustable parts. Though they're suppost to be able to adjusted for both road and drag settings they're still a drag race part, and they will not hold up to corner carving.

 

[Stang|ess]

hey john, I don't see any 12.8 or quicker timeslips in your sig with no power adder

 

[Jackie Chan]

well, the vert never ran on tire with better than 1200' DA's and the cobra was on a 27" tire when it went 12.9 in 1400' DA's.

if you notice my cobra was trapping almost 106 on street tires and went 13.0, on a dr i would have pulled 12.8s easily. this was with 250rwhp

 

[TweekedGT]

My car runs 12.5,with a full 3698#'s, granny shifting, no suspension mods, @ 3500ft altitude. Easy 11 second car and that's just a $2400 modular 5.0 stroker kit, crower stage 2 cams, and 1.7 KB running only 10psi. Beats pre 05 ZO6's by 4-5 tenths.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Regardless of Jackie’s ever so elegant statement that running 12’s with a power adder is gay, I wouldn’t consider 12.8’s in a power adder car with so-so driving and a right off the street, stock set up is all that shameful.

Running high-12's in a power adder car is often less the fault of the car (unless it a completely mismatched set up) and more the fault or inexperience of the driver. Jackie has run some great times with his past and current N/A set ups, but by his own admission, he’s had a lot of seat time at the track compared to most. Not to mention any additional deviations he’s made from the stock tire/suspension set up that a lot of blower guys don’t bother doing before showing up at the track. I’d think anyone with a blower car making 330-350rwhp+ (which seems to be the average for most entry level 4.6 kits) with some seat time and a similar tire/suspension set up would easily be able to best that.

There are many different levels of "Power Adder" cars. In some cases, the difference between 12's and 11's on a supercharged car may be little more that a pulley swap, where others require more effort. A lot think that by adding a power/nitrous/turbo kit alone, that low ET’s are guaranteed and are shocked when they see their time slips for the first time, immediately their sub par ET’s and on the car! In reality, horsepower is only half the equation…..putting all of that new found power to the pavement is what really counts. I’ve seen Dodge Vipers and Z06 Corvettes loose to cars that are know to be far inferior by comparison because of the way they were driven.

 

[TweekedGT]

Regardless of Jackie’s ever so elegant statement that running 12’s with a power adder is gay, I wouldn’t consider 12.8’s in a power adder car with so-so driving and a right off the street, stock set up is all that shameful.

Running high-12's in a power adder car is often less the fault of the car (unless it a completely mismatched set up) and more the fault or inexperience of the driver. Jackie has run some great times with his past and current N/A set ups, but by his own admission, he’s had a lot of seat time at the track compared to most. Not to mention any additional deviations he’s made from the stock tire/suspension set up that a lot of blower guys don’t bother doing before showing up at the track. I’d think anyone with a blower car making 330-350rwhp+ (which seems to be the average for most entry level 4.6 kits) with some seat time and a similar tire/suspension set up would easily be able to best that.


There are many different levels of "Power Adder" cars. In some cases, the difference between 12's and 11's on a supercharged car may be little more that a pulley swap, where others require more effort. A lot think that by adding a power/nitrous/turbo kit alone, that low ET’s are guaranteed and are shocked when they see their time slips for the first time, immediately their sub par ET’s and on the car! In reality, horsepower is only half the equation…..putting all of that new found power to the pavement is what really counts. I’ve seen Dodge Vipers and Z06 Corvettes loose to cars that are know to be far inferior by comparison because of the way they were driven.

Ya, what he said .

 

[Jackie Chan]

Regardless of Jackie’s ever so elegant statement that running 12’s with a power adder is gay, I wouldn’t consider 12.8’s in a power adder car with so-so driving and a right off the street, stock set up is all that shameful.

Running high-12's in a power adder car is often less the fault of the car (unless it a completely mismatched set up) and more the fault or inexperience of the driver. Jackie has run some great times with his past and current N/A set ups, but by his own admission, he’s had a lot of seat time at the track compared to most. Not to mention any additional deviations he’s made from the stock tire/suspension set up that a lot of blower guys don’t bother doing before showing up at the track. I’d think anyone with a blower car making 330-350rwhp+ (which seems to be the average for most entry level 4.6 kits) with some seat time and a similar tire/suspension set up would easily be able to best that.

There are many different levels of "Power Adder" cars. In some cases, the difference between 12's and 11's on a supercharged car may be little more that a pulley swap, where others require more effort. A lot think that by adding a power/nitrous/turbo kit alone, that low ET’s are guaranteed and are shocked when they see their time slips for the first time, immediately their sub par ET’s and on the car! In reality, horsepower is only half the equation…..putting all of that new found power to the pavement is what really counts. I’ve seen Dodge Vipers and Z06 Corvettes loose to cars that are know to be far inferior by comparison because of the way they were driven.

i didnt read this.

different strokes for.....

i have been both routes now. NA is a small headache at first to get everything smoothed out, but once its done its pretty damn bullet proof. with a power adder, you are constantly going to be f'ing with stuff. I say build it nice NA and then add F/I down the road and a nice bottom end