1966 C4 tranny not moving? Reverse ok.

[FLStang]

Hi, new member to this board.

I have a problem with my 66 289 mustang that has been sitting for several years;

No matter what I do, I can't get the car to drive forward.
Reverse engages and works GREAT.


What I've done so far:

-flush the tranny with fresh oil a few times
-used TransX additive that's supposed to free up stuck parts etc.
-flushed again a couple of times.
-overfilled the tranny in an attempt to force oil everywhere it needs to go
-removed excess oil and tried with correct amount of oil
-adjusted the Intermediate band as per the instructions in my Haynes manual:
10lbs ft, then backed the screw out 1 3/4 turns.
-tightened the screw again gradually (virtually no effect)


I have NOT tried to adjust the low/reverse band, mainly because the reverse works ok. Should I?

Big question here is, which band is being used when you start driving from standing still? I notice no difference between the two Drive positions and the Low shifter position. In Low it may creep forward even slower than in Drive, but that would be more or less standing still then.

I do not have a kickdown cable installed. It should not effect the transmission like this but I will get one asap.

I can get the car to slowly creep forward if there's absolutely no incline, and sometimes if I rev the engine REALLY high, it suddenly engages, burns rubber, and the car accelerates ok until I let off the gas. Then it disengages again, and usually won't get going again at all.


Any help welcome.

Jan Andersson
Altamonte Springs, FL

 

[spirockp]

Sounds like it's time to take it to a pro.

 

[FLStang]

I have a hard time trusting anyone else's work, *especially* a pro.... I've seen too much

I do all my maintenance and repairs myself, have been for the past 20 years. I was a race car mechanic until last year when I moved here from Europe, I had to leave behind 2 nice garages and all of my tools.

If I knew what the problem is, I'm sure I could fix it. I just don't want to dive in and "try something" and then put it back together, only to learn that I fixed something that wasn't broken.


I am trying to learn more by surfing the net, and narrowing down the possible causes. I'm down to these:

- badly worn/damaged intermediate band (Can it be replaced without dropping
the tranny?)
-piston that controls the band (No idea if there's going to be springs and stuff flying out if I pop the cover)
-oil flow/pressure to the said piston assembly

I should have good oil pressure from the pump, since the reverse engages fine and holds tight.

As I mentioned before, I've replaced the ATF a few times, and tried to drive the car in thge meantime on a large parking lot, having to rev it up to high heavens to get any response from the transmission. The new ATF I put in, now looks noticeably darker. Burnt band?

I don't fully understand the function of the vacuum thingy near the oil pan, I think it helps shifting from 1st to 2nd and so on, but it should not prevent driving in 1st gear even if it was shot. Right?


I have a couple of months to get this thing roadworthy, but not too much time in a day to work on it. Limited budget, wife says her newly acquired Nova has higher priority



(Edit: I have ordered a Haynes transmission overhaul manual for this beast, and I am about to order a high performance intermediate band, since the consensus on the net seems to be that the C4 eats stock bands often)

Jan

 

[10secgoal]

Sounds like a problem in the foward drum. It engages and locks up the whole time the car is a forward gear. Hence the name . It doesn't lock up, you have now forward gears. If you have always done it yourself, don't let this be any different. Buy a book, or video. I went for the video. I've redone mine twice now. Once when it went out the first time, and then 3.5 years later after beating it up the whole time. If you keep it stock, you could do it under 100 bucks. You need a pair of snap ring pliers, and the other part I paid a tranny shop to put a spring in.

 

[CraigMBA]

That's the only thing I can't do - an automatic transmision;

 

[brianj5600]

That's the only thing I can't do - an automatic transmision;

No, it is the only thing you have not done. If all it needs is linings, it is a breeze. Not much has to be dis-assembled to replace clutches or bands.

 

[FLStang]

Hmm... how about the clutch pack... that could be toast on mine too, right?
Would they get so bad as to not let the car move forward at all? Yet retaining normal Reverse?

Tranny book arrived today, woohoo

Jan

 

[CraigMBA]

No, it is the only thing you have not done. If all it needs is linings, it is a breeze. Not much has to be dis-assembled to replace clutches or bands.

I have no doubt I CAN do one. I just never have. And probablly won't.

 

[Iamdiffrnt]

From what I've been told (and after doing 2 myself, find no reason to doubt) The ford C-4 transmission is the easiest automatic to re-build. The only thing I remember having a somewhat difficult time with was the above mentioned spring for a clutch pack. A cheap Hydraulic, or arbor press (or anything to compress the spring while you secure it with the snap ring) should be the only thing you may not have already. If that's the case do like 10secgoal, should only be a few bucks to have the spring secured. I did two when I was 16 (one was in exchange for a used 302). It really is not as complicated as you think.

 

[krash kendall]

Is the vacuum line attatched to the modulator? Mine came off once and I had some very strange shifting starting problems.

 

[FLStang]

The vacuum line rubber hose piece felt loose, so I fiddled with it until it felt tighter.


I am probably going to pull that sucker out and rebuild it, bands and clutches and all. Got a book, found a good website with pictures and step by step procedures.

It will take time though, other cars have higher priority. Need to replace rings, hone the cyls and replace rod bearings on wife's Nova first.
No time or money to do everything right now. But dangit, I may lose my shop in June... argh. Need to get this stuff done.

Jan

 

[Rusty67]

Tell her that fixing your trans will take significantly less time and money and that you will start on hers as soon as you rebuild that trans. Would she really mind waiting a few extra days ?

 

[FLStang]

I made the mistake of taking her to the Orlando Speed World race track last night, now she's got the fever kickin in even worse

I'm driving the Nova to work today, I guess I'll take them both in the shop at the same time and start tearing them apart... lol.

Jan

 

[FLStang]

Started removing the transmission today, wish me luck. I've got the engine mating bolts still holding it in place, then it's out.



Jan

 

[brianj5600]

Good luck! I got a core that the forwrd clutches were fried on and had a hard time getting it apart, but it looks like the PO of the trans was mad at it. The fibers were not even there and the steels were very thin as well.

 

[Tim65GT]

Got a book, found a good website with pictures and step by step procedures.

Website? ... Share?

 

[FLStang]

This was the website:
http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0508cct_1970_ford_bronco_c4_transmission_rebuild/


Give it lots of time to load.

Jan

 

[FLStang]

AHHA!


I tore the offending little poopster apart, and I found a totally wasted clutch pack.
Out of the 4 friction discs, only one had friction lining left on both sides. Two had none, just bare metal on both sides, and one disc had some friction material on one side, with chunks missing from it.

The metal discs seemed relatively fine, just need minor sanding to smooth out some scratches.

The bands looked ok, intermediate (Forward) bands showing more wear, which is normal I assume.

I'm getting a new clutch pack and bands.


Also, both piston bores had a couple of spoonfuls of some black goop in them, took me a while to scoop and spray it all out. Pitch black, and the consistency of uncured silicone sealant, or very tough toothpaste. The way it smeared and made a mess when touched tells me it was not sealant, just some sort of gummed up residue from outer space.

Piston bores are now clean and look ok. Seals seemed ok, I think I may get new ones anyway.


I can do this.

Jan

 

[10secgoal]

AHHA!


I tore the offending little poopster apart, and I found a totally wasted clutch pack.
Out of the 4 friction discs, only one had friction lining left on both sides. Two had none, just bare metal on both sides, and one disc had some friction material on one side, with chunks missing from it. I can do this.

Jan

:SNSign:
Make sure to get all the passages clean. That clutch material is everywere, and kinda hard to get out as you can see.

 

[FLStang]

:SNSign:
Make sure to get all the passages clean. That clutch material is everywere, and kinda hard to get out as you can see.

Yea, will do. Carb cleaner and air.

I can work on it now, but parts are on hold until wife gets her Nova on the road again. Am I whipped? Well, she's preggers, I don't think I have a choice.
(Hormones man.. argh). So I don't expect to make any progress with the mustang in the next week or two.

I have the 66 stang and the 70 nova parked side by side in my workshop at work,
looking good....

I did pull the head off the Nova, looks like we need 2 new pistons... might as well get all of them (6).

(Maaaaan parts are cheap this side of the pond, yay!)

I feel like I've gotten my life back after moving here from europe. Back to doing what I love most (That doesn't include nudity). I'm excited.

Jan