So i took 5.0, changed out all the pistons rings, cam bearings, crankshaft bearings, installed a double roller timing chain, installed an anderson n41 cam, ford racing roller rockers, and trick flow valve springs, with gt40p heads and a gt40 intake..... what the hell did i do wrong? I Reused the stock pushrods, could these be to short? Is that where I messed up at? The pistons rings are in the correct pattern, and the head bolts were torqued down in the pattern from the book...im stumped here
Engine 89- rebuilt motor and its a slug
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I’m no expert,but I’ll take a couple guesses.
But Yes,you should always measure push rod length when changing heads/ Cam.
How did you line the cam up?.
Verified timing,fuel pressure and spark? Any codes?
I’m still blaming push rods lol.
I’m sure you already know,but here’s some good infor on measuring for push rods-
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/I...ng Pushrod Length And Rocker Arm Geometry.pdf
But Yes,you should always measure push rod length when changing heads/ Cam.
How did you line the cam up?.
Verified timing,fuel pressure and spark? Any codes?
I’m still blaming push rods lol.
I’m sure you already know,but here’s some good infor on measuring for push rods-
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/I...ng Pushrod Length And Rocker Arm Geometry.pdf
I didnt degree the cam, i installed the cam at tdc and lined the timing chain dot to dot, it is my first motor I built so im kind of full blown dumb when it comes to this, is there a way i can degree the cam without pulling the motor, or should i just pull it back out again? I know i can re do the pushrods with the motor in the car
Check fuel pressure:
The local auto parts store may rent or loan a fuel pressure test gauge if you don't have one.
Disconnect the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator. Check it for evidence of fuel present in the line by removing it and blowing air through it. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator has failed. Reinstall the line; leave the fuel pressure regulator end of the vacuum line disconnected. Then cap or plug the open end of the vacuum line and stow it out of the way.
Connect the fuel pressure test gauge to the Schrader port located just behind the alternator.
Turn the ignition switch on & start the engine. Observe the pressure: you should see 38-41 PSI at idle.
Turn the ignition off; reconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. Then disconnect the fuel pressure test gauge. Watch out for squirting gas when you do this.
Fuel pump pressure test
Disconnect the larger of the two fuel lines up by the Schrader valve. It is the return line and does not have the Schrader valve on it. Find a piece of rubber fuel hose and clamp it on the return line coming from the regulator. Stick a bolt in the other end of the hose and make sure that all your connections are tight and leak proof as possible. When this powers up, you don't want fuel squirting everywhere. Hook up the fuel pressure test gauge. Turn the ignition switch on and watch for leaks. You may want to use a helper inside the car to cut the switch off quickly if you have a leak. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments\68357\ [/img]
Caution!!! You have blocked the return line for the fuel pump! Pressure will rise very quickly past safe levels with a good pump[/B]
If the pressure goes up past 55 PSI, the pump is good and the fuel pressure regulator is bad. If the fuel pressure does not hit 55 PSI or more in a few seconds, the pump is bad or you have electrical problems.
Cylinder balance test: use this to find dead or weak cylinders:
Revised 09-Sep-2017 Added reminder to write down the stored codes and engine running codes.
The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinders with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, have the clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you dump the codes and then you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader 3145.
It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Order it at Walmart for a better price and free shipping
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information on problems that are stored in the computer's memory
Cylinder balance test
If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1300-1500 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. With the test jumper in test position, start the engine and let it stabilize. It should flash a 10 and then a 4 and maybe an 11. If no 11, then there are other codes that will be dumped.
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information that the computer found when it is running. These are often different from the stored codes.
One of the first tests it does is to open the EGR all the way, this will cause the engine to stumble and almost die. If the engine dies here then you have EGR problems.
To start the cylinder balance test, briefly floor the accelerator past 2500 RPM and let off the accelerator. The engine will stabilize at about 1300-1450 RPM and the cut off the fuel injectors one at a time. The engine speed will drop briefly and the computer will turn the fuel injector for the cylinder under test back on. Then it starts the process for the next cylinder. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
See
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDXrkKS4jTE
for a visual tour through the process. There is no voice narration so you have to listen carefully for the engine sounds. I posted the link for the benefit of Stangnet members who had questions about how to do a cylinder balance test. I do not own that video and I am not the creator.
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent/loan. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open with a plastic screwdriver handle between the throttle butterfly and the throttle housing. Crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 PSI. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
I generally use a big screwdriver handle stuck in the TB between the butterfly and the TB to prop the throttle open. The plastic is soft enough that it won't damage anything and won't get sucked down the intake either.
A battery charger (not the trickle type) is a good thing to have if you haven't driven the car lately or if you have any doubts about the battery's health. Connect it up while you are cranking the engine and it will help keep the starter cranking at a consistent speed from the first cylinder tested to the last cylinder.
The local auto parts store may rent or loan a fuel pressure test gauge if you don't have one.
Disconnect the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator. Check it for evidence of fuel present in the line by removing it and blowing air through it. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator has failed. Reinstall the line; leave the fuel pressure regulator end of the vacuum line disconnected. Then cap or plug the open end of the vacuum line and stow it out of the way.
Connect the fuel pressure test gauge to the Schrader port located just behind the alternator.
Turn the ignition switch on & start the engine. Observe the pressure: you should see 38-41 PSI at idle.
Turn the ignition off; reconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. Then disconnect the fuel pressure test gauge. Watch out for squirting gas when you do this.
Fuel pump pressure test
Disconnect the larger of the two fuel lines up by the Schrader valve. It is the return line and does not have the Schrader valve on it. Find a piece of rubber fuel hose and clamp it on the return line coming from the regulator. Stick a bolt in the other end of the hose and make sure that all your connections are tight and leak proof as possible. When this powers up, you don't want fuel squirting everywhere. Hook up the fuel pressure test gauge. Turn the ignition switch on and watch for leaks. You may want to use a helper inside the car to cut the switch off quickly if you have a leak. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments\68357\ [/img]
Caution!!! You have blocked the return line for the fuel pump! Pressure will rise very quickly past safe levels with a good pump[/B]
If the pressure goes up past 55 PSI, the pump is good and the fuel pressure regulator is bad. If the fuel pressure does not hit 55 PSI or more in a few seconds, the pump is bad or you have electrical problems.
Cylinder balance test: use this to find dead or weak cylinders:
Revised 09-Sep-2017 Added reminder to write down the stored codes and engine running codes.
The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinders with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, have the clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you dump the codes and then you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader 3145.
It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Order it at Walmart for a better price and free shipping
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information on problems that are stored in the computer's memory
Cylinder balance test
If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1300-1500 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. With the test jumper in test position, start the engine and let it stabilize. It should flash a 10 and then a 4 and maybe an 11. If no 11, then there are other codes that will be dumped.
Write down the codes that the computer outputs since they will give you information that the computer found when it is running. These are often different from the stored codes.
One of the first tests it does is to open the EGR all the way, this will cause the engine to stumble and almost die. If the engine dies here then you have EGR problems.
To start the cylinder balance test, briefly floor the accelerator past 2500 RPM and let off the accelerator. The engine will stabilize at about 1300-1450 RPM and the cut off the fuel injectors one at a time. The engine speed will drop briefly and the computer will turn the fuel injector for the cylinder under test back on. Then it starts the process for the next cylinder. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
See
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDXrkKS4jTE
for a visual tour through the process. There is no voice narration so you have to listen carefully for the engine sounds. I posted the link for the benefit of Stangnet members who had questions about how to do a cylinder balance test. I do not own that video and I am not the creator.
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent/loan. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open with a plastic screwdriver handle between the throttle butterfly and the throttle housing. Crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 PSI. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
I generally use a big screwdriver handle stuck in the TB between the butterfly and the TB to prop the throttle open. The plastic is soft enough that it won't damage anything and won't get sucked down the intake either.
A battery charger (not the trickle type) is a good thing to have if you haven't driven the car lately or if you have any doubts about the battery's health. Connect it up while you are cranking the engine and it will help keep the starter cranking at a consistent speed from the first cylinder tested to the last cylinder.
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These guys have given some good advice, but I think you have the wrong cam for you setup. The N41 is rated from 2660-6200 RPMs, but your head and intake selection is really to small to take advantage it. I would replace that cam with one rated from idle to 5500 RPMs. It will make your setup much more fun to drive as it will not be such a dog below 3000 RPMs.
Ive seem to forgot one thing out of the equation sorry guys, i have a twin turbo installed on it too kind of why i chose that cam so i can rap up higher in the rpm ranges, thats the thing that is getting me screwed up,i dont believe the map sensor isnt reading right now, and my afr is going from 13.5 at idle to 17-18 under load, I have a brand new walboro fuel pump, and 49lb injectors, what would be causing the computer to not send more fuel under load? My fuel pressure falls from 42 at idle to 35 under load, it should be boosting fuel pressure shouldn’t it? What would be going wrong? Are my fuel lines too small?
Yeah..... That’s a pretty big detail to leave out..lol.. How is the car tuned? Wait.before you answer that-let me point you in the direction of where you need to be-https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/forums/digital-self-tuning-forum.357/
@a91what runs that section of the forum,and has a good amount of knowledge as far as tunes and boosted applications go
@a91what runs that section of the forum,and has a good amount of knowledge as far as tunes and boosted applications go
Get that thing to a competent tuner. If your AFR is 17-18 under heavy load, thats way way lean. Should be closer to 11.5. Running too lean under load...you're gonna blow it up! Do not push it if lean at WOT. If you do, you might as well put a stick of dynamite under it!
Stock ecu but what would cause it to do that? Keep in mind i am NOT pulling any boost right now; im just gathering data as is before i added any boost, from what i know it should be pumping more fuel correct? Do i have a sensor thats bad or do i need to change the map sensor to something else? Or scrap the computer and buy an aftermarket one?
I really enjoy piddling around on the project and want to get it close and learn some things and how they work, keep in mind i have every tool in the arsenal to do the job, i Just dont know why the darn thing would go backwards under acceleration it makes, i couldnt make all the boost disappear but i didnt pull more then 1lb during the testing so i had no vacuum under acceleration which is why im pinning it on a map sensor or something similar, pushrods for sure which i will handle that this weekend to make sure they are all in tact, the fuel filter, pump, injectors, and regulator are all brand new and checked out good even when i tested to see if they were faulty. I have seen your article on that before jrichker on another thread, could 1lb of boost and not vacuum affect any sensor I hooked back up on the build?
What heads and intake that wont break the bank to hard would you suggest? Im too restricted right now right? Would that help out with the poor low rpm range?
Mass airflow car? Is it calibrated to the injectors? I’m really not sure the stock computer in stock form is up to the task of TT setup
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
i'm shocked you haven't blown that motor up yet. Get it tuned asap.
What compression pistons?
Why did you go with a n/a cam instead of their cams for power adders?
What clearences are on the bearings, rings?
what size fuel pump?
What compression pistons?
Why did you go with a n/a cam instead of their cams for power adders?
What clearences are on the bearings, rings?
what size fuel pump?
190lph fuel pump, all the bearings and piston clearances were in spec of the haynes manual when i rebuilt it, rings were installed in the correct pattern also, i went with the n41 because i heard great things about it and the people from Anderson said it would work good with boost, compression is at 9.1 but i have a gas station right down the street that sells 100 octane
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
way too small a pump- you need at least a 255 if not 340
there are different tolerances for n/a vs. blown applications on ring gap however that would be a main reason for sluggishness
the cam moved your powerband up.
again- you need a tune- your A/F ratio is way lean probably due to fuel pump starvation
you also need to look at the swipe on the valve stems and see if you need to order different pushrods and/or shim the rockers
there are different tolerances for n/a vs. blown applications on ring gap however that would be a main reason for sluggishness
the cam moved your powerband up.
again- you need a tune- your A/F ratio is way lean probably due to fuel pump starvation
you also need to look at the swipe on the valve stems and see if you need to order different pushrods and/or shim the rockers
