Engine 95 Gt 5.0ho Build-up

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by psychorugby, Oct 19, 2011.


  1. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    This is the first time posting here. I’ve been researching using the forums for a long time, so I hope I don’t ask something that has been asked a million times before.

    I own a 95 Rio Red GT (HO) convertible with about 135k miles on it. The car was my dad’s before he sold it to me 5-6 years ago. After almost 17 years (car has a build date of Nov 94), the paint is faded to about 5 different shades of red/pink, some interior pieces have broken, the top was just replaced due to leaking, etc… but the motor still runs like it’s brand new.

    I am in the planning stages for a restoration/modification, so I come to you for advice and suggestions. I think I’ve got the most of it figured out. The idea is to have a daily driver that will low, loud, and reasonably fast (I’d like to be at 300+hp to the wheels). I understand some of my choices might not be the best, but I am somewhat budget minded since it’s hard to convince my wife that I need a lot of this.

    Links provided for items that I have researched a little bit, those that don’t have links are wide open for suggestions. I am also trying to group these upgrades together in some logical order. The suspension and exterior will probably be done first, and then the motor… but what motor parts can be upgraded together? I am also looking for advice on how to clean up the engine bay (wires, etc.) if someone could point me in the right direction for some more reading.

    Motor

    Driveline

    Exhaust

    Suspension (I’d put her on air, but it’s WAY too expensive)

    Braking
    • Front – Bullitt 13” rotor brake kit with stainless steel hoses or SVE 13” Cobra style brake kit
    • Rear – Bullitt brakes, calipers, & bracket kit
  2. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I know some people claim they get over 300rwhp with Gt 40p heads, but honestly, it's just not going to happen. 1 out 1000 gt40p head cars makes over 300rwhp. Save up a little extra cash for a set of aluminum heads or throw an ebay blower on the car and call it a day.

    Kurt
  3. JonezySN95

    JonezySN95 Member

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    I have GT40P's now with a 97 Explorer intake (close if not the same as GT40 intake) and I really cant tell too much of a differance (not an 85hp differance). Grant it none of its ported or polished. If you cant get them next to nothing then why not, but if you are going for 300HP then listen to Kurt.
  4. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    I can get a set of GT40(p) heads for $50 then port and polish to flow just as well as a set of aluminum heads. I'd rather stick to this route since it is an incredible savings. If I don't get 300hp, then I won't be too upset; if I get 300hp or more, then I will be ecstatic. It's just a goal. Putting a blower on the car is something I will possibly do down the road... most likely when I stroke the motor. These upgrades are meant to tide me over until then.
  5. VibrantRedGT

    VibrantRedGT "STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER" Super Mod

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    My car was short of 300 rear wheel HP with Aluminum heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 70MM TB, 77 Mass Air Meter, full 2.5" exhaust, etc.. The combo has everything to do with it. If you can port the hell out of the heads and intake, with a custom cam and aggressive induction you may get close. Putting the stock GT40p stuff on without porting probably 265-280ish. Stay away from that X cam, it's really not made for 94-95 cars. If you can find that Steeda #19 go with that. If not get a custom grind from Ed Curtis, Crane, etc. with split duration. You won't need to spend the coin on the MSD ignition box, put that money into your porting or cam which is more important.
  6. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    That's the second time I've heard that on the X303... stupid Summit and their recommendations haha. I've taken it and the MSD off the list, so that should free up some money for the H/C/I combo. The GT40 combo is just an interim step. I've never done motor work on a car, so this will be a cheap upgrade that I can learn something by doing and, hopefully, can involve my wife since she says she wants to help.
  7. JonezySN95

    JonezySN95 Member

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    Well it looks like you are on a good path with planning ect. Good luck and keep us posted. Im curious on which combo you go with and the numbers you put down. Just remember... numbers look good on paper and is easy to say a car can have X amount of power, but until the dyno sheet is printed it's just a guestimate.
  8. 95snoozer

    95snoozer New Member

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    gt40P combo in Sig

    I would say, just follow my combo.


    I did the equivalent to a stage 1 (mostly bowl work and ground down exhaust bumps in my kitchen) GET PROPER SPRINGS for your head.
    I would not spend all that money on the bassani headers, nor woudl I run magnapacks on a 5.0. My idea setup would be all mac LT and headers with a bassani catback, go figure. Mine put down 295/ 320 on its initial dyno. It really needed a Performer intake instead of the rpm/typhoon. That is all I would change


    Why are you spending all of that money on suspension? Its an old convertible mustang... see my notes below.


    Strange Engineering complete coilover package – fronts I would not run these on a daily driver, been there done that.
    Strange Engineering 10-way adjustable shocks – rear this is good, but you might consider Bilsteins if you do not want to Drag race it.
    UPR 4 bolt caster/camber plates. - I would go with MM.
    Maximum Motorsports bump steer kit- decide if you need this later
    Steeda X2 ball joints - you only need this if you lower the car too much, I.e. the springs you are looking at below.
    Energy sway bar end links – can’t seem to find prices for these online- I bought mine at autozone for 20 bucks.
    Eibach Pro Kit or H&R Super Sport springs for rear I would run the SS springs all around with Bilsteins if I had it to do all over again. one of the best DD setups. Coilovers up front SUUUCK on the street. and do NOT run coilovers with those UPR CC plates
    Eibach sway bars, -Why?
    SVE Weight Jacker lower control arms- MM adjustable all the way.
    Steeda adjustable upper control arms- cool
    BBK strut tower brace- not really needed unless you are going to run coil;overs and then you limit intake choices.
    Subframe connectors- Go full length welded in ONLY. I would also have them tied to a 4 point roll bar instead of half the stuff that you have listed. It will do WAY more for the car. Also, box those torque arms with the age of the car and the power that you desire.
  9. 95snoozer

    95snoozer New Member

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    looks like my sig is incomplete

    "stage 1" gt40Ps
    proper valve springs
    xe270hr cam
    1.7s
    pullies
    Stock fox TB swap (go with whatever you want 65-75)
    Prom 77 mm maf
    24s
    Fox MAC LTs
    Prochamber
    spintech mufflers
    Professional products Typhoon (I would run a port matched cobra or a performer)
    adj fpr
    14* timing
    stock ecu
    3.73s. (I really needed 4.10s for drag...if that is your goal.)


    I would go ahead and mill heads for compression slightly.
  10. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    Good advice, thanks Snoozer. I've included some of my own comments below in red

  11. JonezySN95

    JonezySN95 Member

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    Adj fpr= Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
  12. redsn95gt

    redsn95gt Member

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    OP- You sound exactly like me a few years go before I started my 95 project. That was some 2 years and $10,000+ ago. Let me spare you the hassle.

    My suggestions are-

    1) If i could start all over...
    Do basic cheap GT40 intake + heads for a little more air flow. Stock HO cam. 24# injectors. (Stock maf works with these! Cobra had em) Then toss on Vortech blower package. You now basically have a boosted 95 cobra. I've seen one of these setups and it is more than enough to make you happy.

    2) Drop in a built to order stroker crate motor from DSS, Coast High Performance etc etc, get a chip tune, call it a day.

    Looking at your list- The route you are heading in now is not going to be as cheap, quick or easy as you think. As soon as you touch the cam and go bigger than 24# on the injectors, you now have a whole slew of prerequisite parts you need to be running and you can't go cheap on them (namely the valve train. Oh wow now my valve covers dont fit. Oh wow now my intake doesnt fit. Oh wow now my hood doesn't close. Oh wow now my car runs like crap it needs tuning)

    GO WITH OPTION 1 ABOVE! :D
  13. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    The paint, wheels, and suspension are my first priorities. I want to get her looking good so I can drive it around without embarrasment. Option 1 is my favorite so far, but I didn't want to spend $3,500 on a blower (that purchase will be hard to sneak past the wife). The motor is last on my list and I want just enough power to snap a head or two back and make me smile. I would probably on upgrade the rocker arms and fix whatever needs to be fixed due to wear and tear of 135k miles. I'll build a 347 or 427 stroker later on down the road.
  14. BlackVert

    BlackVert Mustang Master

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    One minor note about redsn95s valve cover fitment post ...

    just FYI, comp pro magnum rockers fit under stock height valve covers.

    As far as plans, you should decide very early on between a 302 or 351 based solution, because if you decide to go 351, then you would probably be better served leaving the 302 alone for the time being. Otherwise, you will end up buying stuff twice.
  15. redsn95gt

    redsn95gt Member

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    This is exactly the kind of stuff im talkin about that starts that crazy downward spiral out of control with the money spending that I fell into.

    BlackVert is right, if you want to have fun for now, fix whats worn and save the upgrades for later. Run your bolt on GT40 intake and heads and slap in some 3.73s or 4.10s. That will be enough to have a lot of fun driving around the street and its all low buck stuff like you've seen. And knowing you're gonna drop a stroker or 351 in later, you can bang on that 302 hard as you want. :D ie (Oh honey the engine blew in our car, can you believe that? i guess we need to get another one)
  16. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    Good information for when it comes time to do the motor work. Can I run the GT40 heads without upgrading the rockers and springs? I thought that this was prerequisite since the stock springs are rather weak. The more bang for buck that I can put in the motor the better... and the more that I will have to spend on the stroker motor in the future (or other cars). I want this one to look good more than anything and be fun to drive (more than it already is since it feels slow compared to my BMW).
  17. 95snoozer

    95snoozer New Member

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    even stock springs will have valve float...

    Strange Engineering complete coilover package – fronts I would not run these on a daily driver, been there done that. Is it really any worse than 2 inch lowering springs and sport shocks? I have H&R race springs with Koni adjustables on my BMW right now, and it's pretty rough. It doesn't much bother me though.

    Its the NOISE/binding and feel. Its not the roughness at all. I really liked the way mine handled. They were also very tight with my 275 tires up front and rubbed( I put H&Rs on within days. I went 180 degrees from no swaybars, Coilovers with prostars 8" and 3.5" to 9s and 10.5s with H&R SS and Upgraded sways and so on.


    Strange Engineering 10-way adjustable shocks – rear this is good, but you might consider Bilsteins if you do not want to Drag race it. I haven't looked at Bilsteins, but I will now. The price of the Stranges lured me in, as well as several recommendations.

    I think you will be extremely happy with the stance of H&R super sports (not sport or race) and bilsteins, remove spring isolaters if you want the lowest drop.


    UPR 4 bolt caster/camber plates. - I would go with MM. How are MMs better? MM if you decide to go coilovers. They have a spherical bushing system in the center that will keep the coilovers from binding and will cut down A LOT of the noise if you do go that route.

    Maximum Motorsports bump steer kit- decide if you need this later That's the plan
    Steeda X2 ball joints - you only need this if you lower the car too much, I.e. the springs you are looking at below. It's going to be lowered about 2 inches, so I figured I would need them.

    Energy sway bar end links – can’t seem to find prices for these online- I bought mine at autozone for 20 bucks. Do I even need them?

    YES as soon as the drop goes on you can measure height after install and just go buy them.


    Eibach Pro Kit or H&R Super Sport springs for rear I would run the SS springs all around with Bilsteins if I had it to do all over again. one of the best DD setups. Coilovers up front SUUUCK on the street. and do NOT run coilovers with those UPR CC plates Why? The roads here in FL aren't too terrible, so I wasn't concerned.

    Just trust me and the others who have done it. They are noisy, clanky and just arent supposed to be there in the first place.



    Eibach sway bars, -Why? It's more or less a to do later if needed item
    SVE Weight Jacker lower control arms- MM adjustable all the way. Will look into them.

    A stock cobra sway is solid and stiffer. I bought mine straight from the stealership for a bit over 100. These can be put on while laying down in a parking lot (how I did mine once the factory one snapped...which they do)




    Steeda adjustable upper control arms- cool
    BBK strut tower brace- not really needed unless you are going to run coil;overs and then you limit intake choices. I read in several places that I would need it to clear the GT40 intake. Is this correct?
    Subframe connectors- Go full length welded in ONLY. I would also have them tied to a 4 point roll bar instead of half the stuff that you have listed. It will do WAY more for the car. Also, box those torque arms with the age of the car and the power that you desire. I want to do this as well. My wife wants a stupid style/light bar on the car. I would rather have a leather wrapped roll cage.

    Tell her it will save her life and look way cooler. Hell show her Killer Canary's chrome bar.


    "stage 1" gt40Ps
    proper valve springs What are you using?
    xe270hr cam Second time I have seen this mentioned; will look into it
    1.7s

    I had the stock cobra 1.7s and never had any Valve cover clearance problems.


    pullies Didn't want to deal with the charging or cooling problems. After


    Stock fox TB swap (go with whatever you want 65-75) Interesting. I bet I could get one of these from one of my yards too for cheap. What year had what size TB?

    stock fox TB is like 58mm or 60. Since you are going gt40 intake which does not have a neck, Save yourself the money on the neck, delete EGR and run a 65 or 70. you will need a foxbody speedo cable, AIC, a delete plate from UPR and a few other things you can cut off of a fox. Look at the Tech thread on the subject here on the forum.


    I am going to run the GT40 intake ported/polished/port matched to TB initially.

    stock ecu What tune should I be running, if any?

    with a Cam of any type, I would get a custom tune after everything is on. Adjusting FP, raising idle will be enough to get you by for a while. Your wife will hate the surging idle and all the revs to keep her going at stoplights on the days she decides she (the computer) doesn't like you. You could possibly find a cobra computer which does help.

    3.73s should be okay for stoplight to stoplight racing right?
    Yes
  18. redsn95gt

    redsn95gt Member

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    Are you using your E7 springs on the GT40 heads? Not sure about that, likely ok but need someone who knows to chime in. But if you run the stock HO cam with the GT40 springs, those should be fine since the cam profile in the cobra is almost identical to the gt. Its only when you change the cam to something more wild that you get a bigger lift where you need to upgrade springs, pushrods, rockers etc and thats where the money comes in. Good cam $300, pushrods $100, rockers $200, springs $100. Then you have to set valve lash and tweak, not to mention your stock tune will be off now and thats another mess to deal with. Stick with bolt on stuff, go big on your stroker later on.

    EDIT - PM me if you are interested, I have a new in box set of CraneCams 1.7 rockers that are the actual Cobra rockers run with the GT40s in the production car (actually have ford stamped on them). If you are doing a GT40 setup and want the whole package, you could run these 1.7s, get new a set of ford racing factory length hardened push rods, use the stock GT40 springs and you basically have a cobra top end. I also have a 94 cobra cam too, but the profile is actually slightly milder than the HO for emissions reasons. Let me know, ill give you a deal on these.
  19. psychorugby

    psychorugby Active Member

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    My comments/questions are below in red

  20. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I don't get the foxbody throttle body swap. It's much easier and cheaper to just buy the adapter elbow and an SN throttle body. The SN throttle body is a far superior design to the foxbody throttle body. Removing the EGR hurts performance, it's better to keep it.

    Also heard lots of complaints about Strange struts. If you aren't willing to take them out about once a year to rebuild them, I would save up for something a little higher quality.

    Kurt

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