Easy replacement for stock cylinder heads

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by GrandmasterK, Aug 10, 2011.


  1. Vinnietbird

    Vinnietbird Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    19
    I see what you're saying, BUT, I know that they are doing great on my car, and the plug wires have given me no problems, and I did cut them to length and install the boots. I'm using wire looms that run down the side of the valve cover and drop the wires right above the plugs. For a little over a year, as I stated, the engine has been more than reliable. For $1,000, one could install the P heads and roller rockers, new springs, and have cash left over for something else. I built my car on a budget, and it has proven to be a strong runner and a solid car. Patience and parts hunting can really pay off big.
     
    #21
  2. Green 94 5.0

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    With me, it was aluminum or nothing. I just didnt see the point of swapping heads if it was going to be dropping another stock set of heavy irons on, granted they do flow better than the stockers. GT40X heads can be found at a price that would only put him a couple hundred dollars over his goal with room to grow. Just my .02
     
    #22
  3. FastDriver

    Mod Dude

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,024
    Showcase:
    42
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    84
    I don't understand why he can't put a set of premium heads on and slap his stock stuff back over the top of it. Ideal, no... Who cares? He's going to get 20-30rwhp more in the long run with a set of TFS or AFR heads. However, if he continues to run the stock cam, what's the difference?

    I've seen X-heads make 300 at the wheels with a super well put together combination, once. I believe that the combo above will not do it. This combo should be in the 270 rwhp range. That said, I welcome any documentation you have showing the combo producing 325 rwhp.

    Chris
     
    #23
  4. Green 94 5.0

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    My feelings exactly. I made 304whp with GT40X heads that had work done, a Performer RPM with work done, TFS 1 Cam, 70mm T/B, Pro-M 77, 1 5/8 Longtubes, MSD 6AL, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on for quite a while. In fact, I was shocked that I cracked the 300 mark because 99% of GT40X combos I see are in the 290-300 range. At any rate, I dont see 325 being possible either.
     
    #24
  5. FastDriver

    Mod Dude

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,024
    Showcase:
    42
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    84
    Do you post on Corral? Different screen name? Your combo sounds very similar to what I remember.
     
    #25
  6. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    NJ
    I've seen 316rwhp and 11.80's with gt40x's with an e cam and real gt40 intake.

    I say if you have the money for a good aluminum head but not the rest, slap the aluminum on there and worry about the rest later.
    Just add up how much all the bolts ons cost and realize that you only get about 30rwhp from all of them combined, with the heads you'll do better than that and you will of only have bought one thing.
     
    #26
  7. Vinnietbird

    Vinnietbird Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    19
    I do agree with this. If you're patient on parts, grab the aluminum heads first. Good power, much lighter, and you can always upgrade the throttlebody, intake and whatever another time and the hardest most expensive part will already be covered.
     
    #27
  8. ReefBlueHatch

    ReefBlueHatch Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    688
    Showcase:
    2
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Central KY
    IMO, the cast iron vs. aluminum really comes to budget. At least it is for me.

    The past two years I said I was going to do a TFS top end kit. BUT the kit plus supporting mods and a tune is easily over $4,000 - that's what I paid for my whole car! I knew I would never drop that much into a motor in a car I drive 1,000 miles a year.

    So I recently decided to go the GT40P route. I bought some P heads and Explorer intake. The heads are getting a valve job and Comp springs at the machine shop right now. Coming soon is a TFS stage 1 cam, FRPP headers, head bolts and gaskets for $1,000. It's a proven package that's reliable and at 1/4 of the cost, but is a heavier and less powerful package.
     
    #28
  9. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
    Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,501
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Holy Crap.....where are you buying your parts!?! Their top end kit complete through Summit and most other places I’ve seen it runs about $2,600. I mean….I suppose you could sink several hundred more into injectors, pump, MAF meter, exhaust mods, etc....but that's purely optional. Besides...most buyers usually address the minor bolt on supporting parts first as they progress with their car, before they dive into the higher dollar, more complex parts, wouldn’t you agree? Beyond that, you’re only little more than a dyno tune away from some serious street thumping performance.

    I could see sinking $3,000 into the mix before all said and done...but not $4,000. :eek:

    In any case, your build up sounds neat, but the only thing I would consider comparable between the two, is the fact that both swaps involve changing out the stock heads and cam. Your horsepower gains with the GT40P's, cam and headers can't total much more than about 30-45hp combined? The Trick Flow top end is good for well over 100hp+ beyond stock levels...and that's without tuning or supporting mods. Expect to see gains of 130-140hp+ with the addition of a few bolt on parts and a tune.

    So really, although you are paying more for the Trick Flow goods, you really are in every sense of the phrase, getting what you pay for. :shrug:
     
    #29
  10. Green 94 5.0

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    If you are talking to me, it is a rarity for me to post there. Definitely not enough for anyone to recognize my old car.
     
    #30
  11. Green 94 5.0

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Assuming the car was nearly stock, once you factor in the rest of the supporting mods and a dyno tune, I can easily see the price jumping another $1400 hitting the $4000 mark.
     
    #31
  12. 90mustangGT

    90mustangGT I felt sorry for girls because
    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    6,620
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    89
    Location:
    Dallas, GA
    With heads, you get what you pay for. Usually, when you take a cheap head, and upgrade it, you could have bought "nice" heads that were already done. But you usually don't quite get the nice head performance. For instance, AFR 165s are pricey, but they are really well done. People put down some IMPRESSIVE numbers with out of the box AFR's. Not just the dyno, but even more on the track.

    I had ported E7's, with better valve springs, ran me about $700 when all was said and done. Yeah half the cost of AFR's, but less than half the performance. GT40p's then you have to do the valvesprings and headers, and still possibly have issues with the spark plug wires. Not so "cheap" afterall. The good thing is you usually can get your money back when you do upgrade. They never last when put up for sale for very long.

    I know of a guy with some GT40p's, ported and pollished, rebuilt valvetrain and valve job, decked, really maxxed out GT40P's, he wants $600. He knows his stuff, and was going to run them, but got a set of Patriot heads instead. My friend got this car now. He said it ran 12.7, so I don't know what to say about the Patriots.
     
    #32
  13. ReefBlueHatch

    ReefBlueHatch Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    688
    Showcase:
    2
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Central KY
    Well this is what I needed (well wanted anyway)

    TFS top end kit $2500
    FRPP lifters $100
    FRPP injectors w/ adapters $205
    BBK coated long tubes $450
    BBK x-pipe $190
    BBK 75mm throttle body w/ spacer $279
    BBK fuel pump $125
    Aeromotive regulator $135

    Plus whatever else and maybe $250-400 for a good tune.
     
    #33
  14. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
    Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,501
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    See, that's though tough part about reselling a set of GT40/GT40P's. No matter what you've got done, or sunk into them, they're only worth as much as the next guy is able to pick up a used set of aluminum heads for. Even your most average, out of the box aluminum head will outflow and outperform the best ported GT40/GT40P.

    Paying $600 for used GT40/GT40P's is 10-year old pricing. I wouldn't pay more than $350-$400 for a set of GT40/GT40P heads at this point no matter what was done to them....and even less than that now for a set of ported E7TE's. Not when you consider that for a couple hundred more you could pick yourself up a set of used, out of the box Edelbrock Performers (or one of the many other higher end aluminum castings that's flooded the market in the last several years) that not only handily outperform the iron heads, but knock 40lbs off of the nose at the same time.

    It's a tough market.
     
    #34
  15. stykthyn

    stykthyn Commander of the snuggie cultists

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    8,134
    Likes Received:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Location:
    gainesville
    I wouldnt run gt40 heads unless you are on a JY budget. I am running a set because at the time I had a total of 600 to rebuild my engine. I scored the heads/intake and injectors from an explorer at a PNP for roughly 150(gotta love half off day). Sold the intake for 125.00 and put 300 right back into the heads to have a shop clean them up and upgrade the springs. So I was roughly into the heads for 325. Not bad, but there is a lot of performance left on the table that if I would have waited and saved another 4-500 I could have gotten a decent set of used aluminum heads as said earlier. In the grand scheme of things If I were to build a motor tomorrow. I would save for the TFS kit as it is a complete kit. Fasteners, gaskets, heads/rockers, intake, and cam are all there. There is no guess work or waiting for seperate items to be drop shipped. IMHO that is worth a few hundred in itself. My build was held up more than once by summit or LRS because of a part that was "no longer in stock" or was shipped on a different truck.
     
    #35
  16. GrandmasterK

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    No, just here.
     
    #36
  17. GrandmasterK

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Thanks for all the opinions. I want something good but I'm also trying not to go too crazy spending money. So far I'm liking what I've seen about the GT40X heads.

    Can someone suggest a good set of roller rocker arms and an adjustable push rod to pair with these (based on a previous response these sound like things I'd want to have too)?
     
    #37
  18. VibrantRedGT

    VibrantRedGT "STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"
    Super Mod

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    15,569
    Likes Received:
    221
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    Boca Raton, Florida
    Here is whats on the 92:

    GT40X Aluminum Heads upgraded to Ferrara Valves and Springs, $1000 new (can find these used for less).
    Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers Pedestal, $219 new.
    FRPP Pushrods, Under $100 new (can't remember).
    FRPP Lifters, $119 new.

    Rest of the combo:
    TFS Stage 1 Cam
    FRPP Double Roller Timing Chain
    FRPP 30lb Injectors
    Lightning 90MM MAF
    Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator
    Walboro 340LPH Fuel Pump
    RPM Intake
    BBK 70MM TB
    Vortech

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #38
  19. GrandmasterK

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    For a cheap replacement, I was looking at the GT40X heads (new) with the GT40 intake (used).

    Do I want something with EGR or without? I'm not clear on the advantage of one over the other or how well this will work with my current setup.
     
    #39
  20. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
    Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,501
    Likes Received:
    957
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Unless you're running it strictly as a track piece, you'll want to keep your EGR. It won't cost you any power and it'll help you retain fuel mileage and a cleaner emmisions.

    Somewhere along the line, the word went out that deleting the EGR was some advantage over running one, but in reality, there's really none. Keep it active.
     
    #40

Share This Page