"Free" HP?

[rj95svt]

This is an interesting thread, going back to stock.

I can tell you about retarding the cam, it's a bad idea. Don't know if you were reading my threads 10 years ago in this forum but I did that with my Crower cam. I would have to rev the hell out of the car just to get it moving. The power didn't start until about 4500rpm, yes 4 degrees is that far up in the bandwith. It pulled to 7000 rpm and banged off the MSD limiter I had in it. I can tell you from experience it wasn't a fun time. I then changed it to straight up and never looked back, it ran great even with a blower. With stock parts it should be worse.

Hey guys been awhile since I posted over here. I disagree with this. It's a apples to oranges comparison. A aftermarket cam that has a longer duration than stock already moves the power band up and if the cam is not right for the combo and say a little to large for the combo retarding the cam will have the affect you mentioned. In a situation where the cam is on the small side it could help. We are talking about moving a roughly 4400 rpm peak hp to around 4800 in this case so I think it would not hurt it. That said I would be surprised if more than 5hp is gained but it's free.

On a driveability note it's hard to say what it might do as the stock computer is gonna be firing the injectors at the same time it would be for the stock cam valve events in the straight up position. However I don't think it would be much difference if any at all. Like the OP said the worse that could happen is having to take the front cover off and change it back to stock.

Porting the heads will help only if the bowl areas are worked taking the bumps out of the exhaust ports will have little to no affect on power. I must admit though it sure looks like it would help. After looking at the intake you know where the major restriction is. A GT40 intake doesn't look good but the stock GT intake looks alot worse. The end runners have some very bad bends.

 

[VibrantRedGT]

The stock cam runs out of steam at 4800rpm, moving that band up with the stock HP Level will have a hell of time getting out of its own way at that point. It won't start pulling until after that and its also where the stock intake, heads, etc. run out anyway.

 

[Killercanary]

FWIW I retarded the stock cam in my cobra by 2* when I put the AFR heads on it. Did it make a difference? I can't say but I ran it to the limiter on more than one occasion and it didn't feel as though it had really signed off. I did not have any tune or drivability issues either. I bumped e fuel pressure by 3lbs and called it a day. I never had it dyno'd or tuned and it was run with the stock ecu.

If it was my car I would put a set of used under drive pulleys on it, clean the MAF, bump the timing, and call it a day. Retarding the cam with stock heads and intake won't help as e heads will likely see valve float before e mods made any difference.

I will be sending you a pm about your tune and such though. You still have the aem right?

 

[1slow95]

The stock cam runs out of steam at 4800rpm, moving that band up with the stock HP Level will have a hell of time getting out of its own way at that point. It won't start pulling until after that and its also where the stock intake, heads, etc. run out anyway.

The stock cam is good for 260-280rwhp with the right setup. I think every 2* moves the power band by about 250-300 rpm, hardly enough to cause any serious power loss down low.

Degreeing aftermarket vs. stock cam is way different. Non-stock cams you generally want to stick to whatever is on the spec sheet.

EECTuning.org • View topic - How Much Power Can Stock Ford HO Parts Make?

Paul, still have the AEM in my car. My two main problems I haven't been able to figure out is bucking under light load, which isn't too bad most of the time, and throttle response sucks I think because of a lean spike when I first open the throttle.

I was worried about the stock heads/intake falling off at higher rpms even with the cam retarded. Aftermarket stuff I would go 4* without worrying, but I'm debating between 2* or 4*... Probably stick with 2* for now. I will be checking where it's at now before changing anything though.

 

[BlackVert]

Extrude hone.

Kurt

that's an expensive proposition, isn't it? but i hear the results are good.

 

[revhead347]

that's an expensive proposition, isn't it? but i hear the results are good.

It was a joke to be ironic to the title of the thread. Extrude Honing costs a fortune these days. It would be the way to get the gunk out of the intake, but it costs more than a mid level aftermarket intake.

Kurt

 

[1slow95]

Port 1 looking ok? I should probably take some more off, but I'm afraid of taking too much.

Also, I played with Engine Analyzer and found that retarding the stock cam with stock heads is only good for 4-5hp at 5000 rpm. With ported intake and retarded cam it's showing a 16hp gain at 5000 rpm. Here's a dyno graph comparing 100% stock vs. ported intake and 4* retarded cam. analyzer.JPG

 

[KamiKaziDK]

Lookin good man. I would still spend a little time on the exhaust of your heads though, our heads are probably worse than our intakes as far as flow.

 

[Bullitt95]

I got a stock 5.0 engine for my car and I'm looking for cheap/free mods that I can do before I drop it in. The main thing is I don't want to hurt driveability and I don't want to have the tuned.

Here's what I have in mind: Port the stock lower intake, retard stock cam 4*, bump timing 2-4*, shorty headers/full o/r exhaust. This should put me in the range of 215-230rwhp, but I'm not certain how the stock ecu will respond. It should be fine, but I want you guys' opinion before I do it.

Remove air silencer and MAF mesh screen from stock airbox
Port stock MAF housing
Remove smog pump assembly
ASP underdrive crank pulley + short belt AC/smog pump bypass
Bump timing 2-4 degrees
Port stock lower intake
Port stock E7 heads as per diyPorting.com and mill 0.010" from surfaces
Long tube headers (easy to install at the same time as heads)
O/R exhaust

...and leave the cam well alone.
You'll end up with what I have minus the C&L 76mm CAI/MAF kit, 75mm TB, Performer intake, 1.7 RRs, and 245-250rwhp behind a manual tranny.

 

[1slow95]

Put the new timing chain on at 2* retard and degree'd the stock cam. Came up with these numbers
Lift = 0.278/0.278
Duration @ .050 = 211/211
ICL = 116
ECL =116

IO = 11 ATDC
IC = 42 ABDC
EO = 41 BBDC
EC = 10 BTDC
(All @ .050 lift)

I think the stock ICL/ECL are supposed to be 118/113, which would put my cam 4* advanced from the factory. I'm debating if I want to leave it as is or retard it another 2* to get it closer to factory spec...