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Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by MikeysOTP, Aug 4, 2008.
Sounds like I have my hp increase right here. Need more torque though to get to that 400 plateau.
OK, hopefully I don't miss anything here.
Yes my gas mileage has definitely improved, about 2.5 all around but I think when I get some highway miles I will see big mpg gains there. I haven't done enough highway driving with them yet to know for sure.
On the final dyno pull my car was still making power right up to 6200, so while I gained 47 peak, it is somewhat less in reality since the baseline pull stopped at 6000 rpms, although the stock curve looks pretty flat at that point. I bet if he pulled the dyno longer I would have even bigger gains judging by the graph.
I do have a dyno printout but my scanner is not working, I will post it when I can though.
I didn't lose much, if any torque, but I didn't start seeing any gains in torque or hp until around 3000 or higher.
FRPP claims that a tune is not needed and that I could have used the Brenspeed tune but they say you won't gain any power without a dyno tune. They were right that the car did run without tuning but it is necessary to be streetable regardless of what they, say in my opinion. The car stumbled down low and the drive by wire needs major adjustment because of the choppy idle.
I am guessing that I saw such big gains since I went from a canned tune to a dyno tune, so that is another reason to spring for tuning.
My final peak numbers are 325hp and 316tq on a Mustang dyno. From what I have been told my numbers would be anywhere from 5-10% higher on a dynojet but who knows. All I do know is that I got big gains from stock on the same dyno with the weather correction factored in by the dyno. From what I understand this compensates for any weather changes from the baseline to the final pull.
I paid $450 for the install labor. Plus a few dollars for 2 cam phaser bolts (required) and 2 valve cover gaskets (doesn't hurt to be safe). I paid another $450 for tuning, including the baseline.
With the specialty tools the front covers do not have to be removed. Brenspeed has gotten so good at doing nsr cams that charge $280 for labor. Unfortunately they don't do the FRPPs. If you are near them you might want to consider the new custom grind Comps though, they have a similar idle to mine.
Wait, wait! I was expecting some insanity here. You paid $1,700 and are only at the 302/313 mark?
I've got stock cams and am making 298/325 with intake, exhaust, and tune. You have basically the same mods plus cams and are only hitting your numbers? Am I missing something, or will I only pick up ~5rwhp from these cams?
I've personally talked to Tim @ MPH in Atlanta and he told me that other shops that he'd talked to personally told him they had been getting around 25 rwhp with the FRPP cams on stock motors. He hasn't installed any himself though.
How much you get will depend on other stuff like CMDP's and LT's.
BTW, I bought my cams at buyfordracing.com for $750 plus shipping. They have plenty of them.
But if you take a stock motor and just put a tune on it you will gain sustantial HP. How much is really from the cams alone? You can say 25rwhp from stock, but what if 15rwhp was from the tune alone?
With your mods those would be decent numbers even on a dynojet. Now you need some LT's to get the most out of your cams.
I am a computer idiot, let's see how this works.
Oh man, that looks sweet!
Wow, that's a nice gain all the way through the power band.
I believe Doug from bamachips has said that he has gotten a gain across the boards as well.
Look at the difference in torque after it peaks. Peak numbers don't tell the whole story.
Thanks for the graph, I've been waiting to see a before and after with these cams.
Man that's pretty. Why'd they stop at 6k? I usually go till at least 6500, usually 6800.
The second pull is actually to 6200, it just so happens that this is the part of the graph he printed, I guess you can't view the whole thing at once? As to why he didn't pull it any farther, I have no idea. Could have something to do with hm telling me that the rods in these motors don't like high RPM's.
The motor shouldn't be spun over 6,500rpms.
I helped with a Comp Cam NSR install several weeks ago. It was fairly easy considering I've never done any internal engine work before. Four hours total by people who've never done a cam swap before. I can see how it would be easier to do the valve spring swap with the motor out as getting to the back part of the motor is quite tight. The guy who had these installed was able to put down 331 RWHP from Doug's dynotune. His mods are NSR Comp Cams, UDPs, C&L intake, American Racing LTs, catted X and 93 octane tune.
How do your dealerships feel about the cams and warranty?
MyLocalDJ, my parents live about 10 min from Crossroads Ford...
We are finally getting some good cams for our cars. The ford hot rod cams were good for 30 hp on stock heads and up to 60 hp on ported heads, that was the release info. Comp cams also has a new series of cams for the 3 valve that can deliever as much as 80 hp on ported heads, but some of the comp cams will need springs. They have 3 stages from mild to wild for fi and n/a motors. The secert to getting power from these new cams is a phase limiter that allows the cams to work with the cvt instead of deleting it. This allows us to keep lowend and mid range while pulling like hell at the top. I know the comp cams are using the phase limiter and I'm sure the ford cams must be as well. This is a giant break through for us in cams as we inch ever so closer to that magic 400 hp on a n/a motor. 30 hp without springs is a really good bump on a stock motor, you throw in some long tubes, cai, tune and maybe a p&p and your starting to make some real power. There a couple of intakes in the works for us as well. With a new intake and some of these new cams comming out, we could be knocking on the 400 hp door before adding fi, or staying all motor like myself. JDM Engineering made 401 rwhp on a 298 emissions legal 3 valve stroker with the comp cams with phase limiter and basic bolt on's. I don't know how much that would be in flywheel hp, but iy would have to be getting close to 4 and ahalf I would say.
Cam phaser limiters don't help torque, they take it away. Their purpose is to limit the amount of variable cam timing in order to prevent piston to valve clearance issues. FRPP does not recommend the use of either limiters or lockouts with the hot rod cams.
So if the FRPP cams don't use phase limiters they should be easier to tune, and overall cheaper to install right? Afterall you're not buying the limiters.
So how are these FRPP HR Cams actually comparing to the Comp NSR cams? Someone said in an earlier post there are Comp cams which can give that nice lopey sound and from my understanding they give better #s when all is said and done. Am I understanding this correctly? Someone also asked about the warranty issue, any word on that? I definitely want cams, but I want the best sound/power value possible.
They are probably just about the same ...