Engine High Idle, Rough Start

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after rereading the tps stuff i realized i did not disconnect the negative battery for 10 minutes as suggested. i retested the tps voltage which read very low and moved the tps till it said 0.92, removed both battery cables for ten minutes and reran the codes. these are baseline, did not try to start or even crank engine.

new codes koeo- 81, 81, 11, 11, 1 - (1? what is that?)

it's getting better! will test fuel pressure in the daytime.
 
new egr, used the noid light and it flashes. fuel pressure tester is rented out- hope it is back tonight but we'll see. tried to start it and same thing, starts-runs and dies. new koeo codes after that: 81, 88 ,79, 61, 6. codes 81, 88, and 79 were repeated twice.
 
looked at the set screw for the throttle and it was screwed way in, adjusted it and the tps. pulled the battery for ten minutes and............................. it starts! idles at about 1100 rpm pulled koer codes. they are: 94, 44, 13- all repeated twice in that order. shut it down and turned the key and it fired right back up. ran it for ten minutes and shut it down. idle speed is around 700 rpm factory correct? i will wean it down to there and pull koer codes again, also will do a cylinder balance test while i am at it.
 
Factory recommended idle speed is 650-725 . See the "Surging Idle Checklist” for help with all your idle/stall problems. The base idle speed setting procedure is in there.

You can guess at the problem and throw parts at it, or you can use the checklist to help you find the problem quickly and inexpensively. The checklist is right here in the Stangnet 5.0 Tech forum and you don’t have navigate to some other unknown web site. It‘s free and doesn’t cost anything: at last count there were more than 103,000 visits and still climbing

The quick and easy way to dump the codes is in there too, and all you need to do it is a paper clip! The first two posts contain all the fixes & updates. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.
 
Factory recommended idle speed is 650-725 . See the "Surging Idle Checklist” for help with all your idle/stall problems. The base idle speed setting procedure is in there.

You can guess at the problem and throw parts at it, or you can use the checklist to help you find the problem quickly and inexpensively. The checklist is right here in the Stangnet 5.0 Tech forum and you don’t have navigate to some other unknown web site. It‘s free and doesn’t cost anything: at last count there were more than 103,000 visits and still climbing

The quick and easy way to dump the codes is in there too, and all you need to do it is a paper clip! The first two posts contain all the fixes & updates. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.

on it after i get these kids fed! any concern with the newer koeo or koer codes?
 
The 44/94 are only a concern if you still have a cat H pipe. If no cats, you can ignore them.

Code 13 - Key on Engine off - ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) – ISC

Key on Engine running - Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high)

If your idle is above 725 RPM, the computer will set this code. Normal idle speed is 650-725 RPM. Higher than that means that someone has mechanically set the idle speed by use of the idle speed screw, and has effectively disabled to computer’s ability to control idle speed.



Codes 44 & 94 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks.

Revised 30 Jun 2012 to add engine running and engine not running warnings..

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them

Code 44 RH side air not functioning.
Code 94 LH side air not functioning.

The computer uses the change in the O2 sensor readings to detect operation of the Thermactor control valves. When the dump valve opens, it reduces the O2 readings in the exhaust system. Then it closes the dump valve and the O2 readings increase. By toggling the dump valve (TAB), the computer tests for the 44/94 codes.

Failure mode is usually due to a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon. The air crossover tube mounts on the back of the cylinder heads and supplies air to each of the Thermactor air passages cast into the cylinder heads. When the heads do not get the proper air delivery, they set codes 44 & 94, depending on which passage is clogged. It is possible to get both 44 & 94, which would suggest that the air pump or control valves are not working correctly, or the crossover tube is full of carbon or missing.

Testing the system:
Note that the engine must be running to do the tests unless stated otherwise. For safety’s sake, do test preparation like loosening clamps, disconnecting hoses and connecting things to a vacuum source with the engine off.


Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve.

The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The following computer tests are done with the engine not running.
The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Turning the ignition to Run with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

The following computer tests are done with the engine running.
If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation with the engine running. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

Typical resistance of the solenoid valves is in the range of 20-70 Ohms.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50636&d=1180923382 for a very nice drawing of the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) plumbing

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them
See http://forums.stangnet.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50636&d=1180923382 for a very nice drawing of the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) plumbing .
 
re-ran the tests.
before starting koeo is 81, 11.
running or koer is 94, 44.
cylinder balance is 9.
koeo after cylinder test is 81, 19. i believe 19 is from me stalling it out tweaking the throttle screw, i turned it a little too fast.
 
re-ran the tests.
before starting koeo is 81, 11.
running or koer is 94, 44.
cylinder balance is 9.
koeo after cylinder test is 81, 19. i believe 19 is from me stalling it out tweaking the throttle screw, i turned it a little too fast.

That looks very good. At this point the car should be drivable with no problems due to codes. There may still be some idle issues, but you probably won't spot them until you have driven the car for a while.
 
That looks very good. At this point the car should be drivable with no problems due to codes. There may still be some idle issues, but you probably won't spot them until you have driven the car for a while.
still will stall every once in a while on cold start up, but has exhaust leaks. so i will fix those before i worry too much about it. i will look at those 94, and 44 codes in a few days. i want no codes and everything working but have to work till tuesday so no time to really get into it. the metal tube that connects the smog equipment to the cat attachment is not currently hooked up either, it sits on the shelf in my garage till i can get under it to snake it up there.
 
I am getting sick of looking at this engine bay, so all of you can share my misery.
Madison-20120811-00127.jpg

In the mean time I have checked out all the vacuum lines and blew them out with air. Checked the smog "valves" and they hold vacuum. Checked the secondary diverter to ground and nada, needs to be replaced. The air crossover tube is clear, but was loose on the check valve. Tightened that up and will retest tomorrow night, it is too late to start it and wake the neighbors and wife! Any other vehicles have the secondary diverter valve that I might find in the junk yards? By the way, the valve covers and upper intake are all my paint work. Looks good huh?
 
Some more diagrams and text to study...

Thermactor Air System
Some review of how it works...

Revised 17-Sept-2011 to add testing procedure.

The Thermactor air pump (smog pump) supplies air to the heads or catalytic converters. This air helps break down the excess HC (hydrocarbons) and CO (carbon monoxide). The air supplied to the catalytic converters helps create the catalytic reaction that changes the HC & CO into CO2 and water vapor. Catalytic converters on 5.0 Mustangs are designed to use the extra air provided by the smog pump. Without the extra air, the catalytic converters will clog and fail.

The Thermactor air pump draws air from an inlet filter in the front of the pump. The smog pump puts air into the heads when the engine is cold and then into the catalytic converters when it is warm. The Thermactor control valves serve to direct the flow. The first valve, TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass) or AM1 valve) either dumps air to the atmosphere or passes it on to the second valve. The second valve, TAD (Thermactor Air Diverter valve or AM2 valve) directs it to the heads or the catalytic converters. Check valves located after the TAB & TAD solenoids prevent hot exhaust gases from damaging the control valves or pump in case of a backfire. The air serves to help consume any unburned hydrocarbons by supplying extra oxygen to the catalytic process. The computer tells the Thermactor Air System to open the Bypass valve at WOT (wide open throttle) minimizing engine drag. This dumps the pump's output to the atmosphere, and reduces the parasitic drag caused by the smog pump to about 2-4 HP at WOT. The Bypass valve also opens during deceleration to reduce or prevent backfires.

Code 44 RH side air not functioning.
Code 94 LH side air not functioning.

The computer uses the change in the O2 sensor readings to detect operation of the Thermactor control valves. When the dump valve opens, it reduces the O2 readings in the exhaust system. Then it closes the dump valve and the O2 readings increase. By toggling the dump valve (TAB), the computer tests for the 44/94 codes.

Failure mode is usually due to a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon. The air crossover tube mounts on the back of the cylinder heads and supplies air to each of the Thermactor air passages cast into the cylinder heads. When the heads do not get the proper air delivery, they set codes 44 & 94, depending on which passage is clogged. It is possible to get both 44 & 94, which would suggest that the air pump or control valves are not working correctly, or the crossover tube is full of carbon or missing.


thermactor-air-system-65-gif.50636



Computer operation & control for the Thermactor Air System
Automobile computers use current sink technology. They do not source power to any relay, solenoid or actuator like the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors. Instead the computer provides a ground path for the positive battery voltage to get back to the battery negative terminal. That flow of power from positive to negative is what provides the energy to make the IAC, fuel pump relay, or fuel injectors work. No ground provided by the computer, then the actuators and relays don't operate.

One side of the any relay/actuator/solenoid in the engine compartment will be connected to a red wire that has 12-14 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side will have 12-14 volts when the relay/actuator/solenoid isn't turned on. Once the computer turns on the clamp side, the voltage on the computer side of the wire will drop down to 1 volt or less.

In order to test the TAD/TAB solenoids, you need to ground the white/red wire on the TAB solenoid or the light green/black wire on the TAD solenoid.

For 94-95 cars: the colors are different. The White/Red wire (TAB control) is White/Orange (Pin 31 on the PCM). The Green/Black wire (TAD control) should be Brown (pin 34 at the PCM). Thanks to HISSIN50 for this tip.

Testing the system:

To test the computer, you can use a test light across the TAB or TAD wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker.

Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve.

The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Starting the engine with the computer jumpered to self test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

Typical resistance of the solenoid valves is in the range of 20-70 Ohms.

Theory of operation:
Catalytic converters consist of two different types of catalysts: Reduction and Oxidation.
The Reduction catalyst is the first converter in a 5.0 Mustang, and the Oxidation converter is the second converter. The Oxidation converter uses the extra air from the smog pump to burn the excess HC. Aftermarket converters that use the smog pump often combine both types of catalysts in one housing. Since all catalytic reactions depend on heat to happen, catalytic converters do not work as efficiently with long tube headers. The extra length of the long tubes reduces the heat available to operate the O2 sensors and the catalytic converters. That will cause emissions problems, and reduce the chances of passing an actual smog test.


Now for the Chemistry...
"The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2. For example:

2NO => N2 + O2 or 2NO2 => N2 + 2O2

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. For example:

2CO + O2 => 2CO2

There are two main types of structures used in catalytic converters -- honeycomb and ceramic beads. Most cars today use a honeycomb structure." Quote courtesy of How Stuff Works (HowStuffWorks "Catalysts")

What happens when there is no extra air from the smog pump...
As engines age, the quality of tune decreases and wear causes them to burn oil. We have all seem cars that go down the road puffing blue or black smoke from the tailpipe. Oil consumption and poor tune increase the amount of HC the oxidation catalyst has to deal with. The excess HC that the converters cannot oxidize due to lack of extra air becomes a crusty coating inside the honeycomb structure. This effectively reduces the size of the honeycomb passageways and builds up thicker over time and mileage. Continuous usage under such conditions will cause the converter to fail and clog. The extra air provided by the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) is essential for the oxidation process. It oxidizes the added HC from oil consumption and poor tune and keeps the HC levels within acceptable limits.

Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired.
 
thinking the smog air pump is on its last leg. not alot of air out of it. is there a way that people disable it and it could be reversed? when i got the car it was there but all the tubing was off of it.
 
There is a smog pump bypass kit available. Do a search on smog pump bypass and see what you get.

Some people have bought junky ones that didn't last, while others have gotten quality pieces.
 
There is a smog pump bypass kit available. Do a search on smog pump bypass and see what you get.

Some people have bought junky ones that didn't last, while others have gotten quality pieces.

was really wondering if had just been disabled somehow that i couldnt see. Apparently people break the vanes out and just leave the actual shell hooked up to the pully. that makes sense with the amount of airflow coming out. i will pull it tonight and have a look see.
 
went out to see if i had missed anything, vacuum lines or connections of any kind. looked for leaks. pulled koeo codes to quadruple check, they were still 81 and 11. started the engine and it fires right up, runs then runs rough, fights to stay alive and then dies. wanted to pull koer codes put it wouldnt stay running long enough to finish the test. it smells rich. it has exhaust leaks around that bbk h pipe that make it run louder and i plan to fix those this week. but is that enough to throw the engine off and shut it down? for the mean time i will review the surging idle check list.
 
reset the tps and throttle using your directions (600 rpm - ish, iac/spout disconnected). followed others directions before but they neglect to mention the spout and iac removal to attain base throttle. i didnt see your directions as i didnt scroll far enough down on the surging idle checklist. thought it stopped at the first entry... never checked past that till now. :bang:

runs very nice now. no problems. did pull 94/44 on koer as usual. will double check airflow out of smog pump tomorrow now that it runs. i understand where the air is forced out of the pump but where is the intake to it? perhaps it is clogged or blocked? smog pump looks unmolested and turns freely. while turning the internals they coincide with the pulley when hand turned. i see no way to get in it and damage the internals, although i did not get to pulling it off tonight.