Idle Hanging At 1500rpms

[goindownhole]

Alright, I've got my car running from my previous thread - ended up the fuel lines got pinched next to the sway bar.

Now, I have a 1500rpm hanging idle. I've been over the surging idle checklist.
I have all vacuum lines checked an/or plugged to see if line quality was bad.
I've done the brake clean / ether test around all connections and no idle change.
Brand new TPS set at .97v closed, 4.7 WOT
Brand new IAC valve
Brand new EGR valve

I've backed off the throttle stop screw completely (passed the point of closure even) and the idle will not move off 1500rpms. It did come down to 1200 at a point but the computer seems to be commanding it at 1500. Once it throttles down you can hear it come right back up and hold - just like when you do the self test with a scan tool and do your balance test - but this is all the time.

Modifications are just a cold air intake/K&N filter, full Mac exhaust. Thats it.
No engine codes at all.
Balance test comes back even.

Ideas or suggestions?

Car is an 87 GT with manual trans.

Thank you in advance.

 

[jrichker]

Been there and experienced that...

You have a vacuum leak somewhere. Mine was due to the carbon canister plumbing under the upper intake manifold. One of the rubber hoses for the carbon canister was deteriorated to the point that it was leaking and sucking in air.


Disconnect the IAC and see if the idle speed changes. If it doesn't, then you definitely have a vacuum leak.


Finding vacuum leaks

Revised 04-Aug-2011 to add pintle cap, PCV grommet & power brake check valve grommet to checklist.

There is no easy way to find vacuum leaks. It is a time consuming job that requires close inspection of each and every hose and connection.

Small vacuum leaks may not show much change using a vacuum gauge. The range of "good readings" varies so much from engine to engine that it may be difficult to detect small leaks. The engine in my first Mustang pulled about 16.5" of vacuum at 650-725 RPM, which I consider rather low. It was a mass market remanufactured rebuild, so no telling what kind of camshaft it had. Average readings seem to run 16"-18" inches at idle and 18"-21" at 1000 RPM. The only sure comparison is a reading taken when your car was performing at its best through all the RPM ranges and what it is doing now. Use one of the spare ports on the vacuum tree that is mounted on the firewall near the windshield wiper motor.

Use a squirt can of motor oil to squirt around the mating surfaces of the manifold & TB. The oil will be sucked into the leaking area and the engine will change speed. Avoid using flammable substitutes for the oil such as starting fluid, propane or throttle body cleaner. Fire is an excellent hair removal agent, and no eyebrows is not cool...

The vacuum line plumbing is old and brittle on many of these cars, so replacing the lines with new hose is a good plan. The common 1/8” and ¼” vacuum hose works well and isn’t expensive.

The PCV grommet and the power brake booster check valve grommet are two places that often get overlooked when checking for vacuum leaks. The rubber grommets get hard and lose their ability to seal properly. The PVC grommet is difficult to see if it is correctly seated and fitting snugly.

Fuel injector O rings can get old and hard. When they do, they are prone to leaking once the engine warms up. This can be difficult to troubleshoot, since it is almost impossible to get to the injectors to squirt oil into the fuel injector mounting bosses. If the plastic caps on the fuel injectors (pintle caps) are missing, the O rings will slide off the injectors and fall into the intake manifold.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( BWD - Home ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:
Parts Plus – Premium Auto Parts & Accessories or Auto Value or Pep Boys | Tires | Auto Repair & Service | Car Parts | Car Accessories or Federated Auto Parts

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.



Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.

Determining if you have a leak due to a slipped intake gasket as shown above. This test is only good if you can get the engine to run somewhere in the 1000-1700 RPM range
If your valve cover oil filler & PVC systems are still in the original configuration, try this:
Cap or plug the hose from the intake manifold to the PVC valve with a bolt.
Cap or plug the PVC valve with a piece of hose with a plug or bolt in it.
At that point the only vent for the crankcase is the tube from the oil filler neck to the throttle body.

Disconnect the tube that runs from the oil filler neck to the throttle body. Make sure the oil filler cap is on securely. Start the engine and put your thumb over the end of the tube that comes from the oil filler cap. If you feel suction, there is a leak. Another thing to do is to extend the tubing from the filler neck so that there is enough to stick the end in a jar or cup filled with motor oil. If it sucks up the oil, you definitely have a leak at the underside of intake manifold.

This isn't necessarily the definitive test, but it is the best thing I could come up with on short notice. If there is a lot of blowby, this obviously won't be of much help.

See the picture below to see the breather tube where in connects to the throttle body. It is close to the TPS and runs over the top of the IAC.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

 

[Adamo141]

I have had similar issues, after checking and finding no vacuum leaks, replacing EGR and IAC and testing them I still had an issue with my idle. This is what I did, First set Timing to 12-14 degrees depending on the gas you use

1. Bring car to running temp
2. Kill engine and unplug IAC
3. Start the car, If it runs use the idle adjust screw to set idle at 700-800 RPM. If it wont start adjust screw until it starts
4. Turn car off and plug in IAC
5. Set TPS to less than 1
6. Let car idle 1-2 mins then turn AC on full and let idle run 1-2 mins
7. drive car 10 miles with lots of stop and go

This should help reset your idle in the computer

Also check your throttle cable, is it possible that it is getting stuck?

 

[jrichker]

I have had similar issues, after checking and finding no vacuum leaks, replacing EGR and IAC and testing them I still had an issue with my idle. This is what I did, First set Timing to 12-14 degrees depending on the gas you use

1. Bring car to running temp
2. Kill engine and unplug IAC
3. Start the car, If it runs use the idle adjust screw to set idle at 700-800 RPM. If it wont start adjust screw until it starts
4. Turn car off and plug in IAC
5. Set TPS to less than 1
6. Let car idle 1-2 mins then turn AC on full and let idle run 1-2 mins
7. drive car 10 miles with lots of stop and go

This should help reset your idle in the computer

Also check your throttle cable, is it possible that it is getting stuck?

Nice try, but wrong answer. Normal idle speed setting procedure:
The idle screw sets the lower mechanical limit for idle. The computer uses the IAC to control idle speed . When you use the idle set screw to set the idle, you have defeated computer control of the idle.

From the Surging Idle Checklist.
Setting the base idle speed:
First of all, the idle needs to be adjusted to where the speed is at or below 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected. If you have a wild cam, you may have to raise this figure 100-150 RPM or so. Then the electrical signal through the IAC can vary the airflow through it under computer control. Remember that the IAC can only add air to increase the base idle speed set by the mechanical adjustment. The 600 RPM base idle speed is what you have after the mechanical adjustment. The IAC increases that speed by supplying more air under computer control to raise the RPM’s to 650-725 RPM’s. This figure will increase if you have a wild cam, and may end up between 800-950 RPM

Remember that changing the mechanical idle speed adjustment changes the TPS setting too.

This isn't the method Ford uses, but it does work. Do not attempt to set the idle speed until you have fixed all the codes and are sure that there are no vacuum leaks.

Disconnect the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. Leave the battery negative terminal disconnected for 5 minutes or so. Then turn the headlights off and reconnect the battery. This erases the computer settings that may affect idle performance.

Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. A wild cam may make it necessary to increase the 600 RPM figure to 700 RPM or possibly a little more to get a stable idle speed.