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Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by larrym1961, Sep 20, 2013.
Ah, alright thanks for your time. Got to be safe.
Yup it always has to have a same size return path, use 2 for cheap fire insurance
My old stock distributor was acting goofy on me early last year. I couldn't find a factory new distributor so I went with a local parts store distributor. That was a disaster as the shaft locked up to the bushing after about 2 minutes of idle time showering my new engine with aluminum shavings. I didn't go MSD because of the bad rep they have gotten. I ended up going with a PA distributors "hot forged" distributor.
It's been a dream. Cleared up a rich condition I was having at idle, and pulls nice and clean up to redline. It's not cheap, but it is a well made piece.
I seen your post on that POS distributor. That really sucked!! Bad for me I trashed my old stocker distributor. So I hope I find a quality stock replacement.
my msd pro billet dizzy put me on a flatbed 2 times even tho i keep a spare tfi in the glovebox both times it wasnt tfi turned out being dam pip sensor
Damn, not what I wanted to hear. The Crank sensor works the timing, but the MSD can supposedly be modified to make a cam synch. Needs a good PIP, though.
We run a modified MSD Pro Billet distributor that is used with a FAST XFI system that uses the MSD crank trigger. This engine regularly see's 8,000 plus rpm with no spark issues. The dist. is basically the cam sync sensor now as the FAST controls all of the ignition timing. It is kind of wild to have the engine at idle speed and be able to turn the distributor all the way left and right and have the timing stay at 10* BTDC.
just got to be careful and make sure its phased correctly
I've got the BS3, and that's exactly what I was planning to do. I eventually want to experiment with tuning individual cylinders.
thats how we did the NOS car... but we didnt have any EGT's or any of that we had to go off the plugs. once we get a handle on the turbo car we will start tuning hole to hole. you can really clean up a tune up going hole to hole.
do you have the new BS3 SR2?
It is phased correctly, engine runs great. On initial set up the crank trigger was out of sync and the engine did not want to idle very well, exhaust ran hotter than hell at idle as well. When we got the crank trigger dialed in at 50* BTDC, then it all came together and ran like a beast! It turns out that the timing pointer for the crank was off and thus the crank trigger phasing was thrown off. Somehow during the time that the dist. was stabbed and phased in and the crank trigger set, the pointer got tweeked and threw off the crank trigger. It is all good now tho.
you running it bank fired?
ahhh ok i thought you set it to 50* for bank fire...
im starting to miss the carb and powergrid with all this new fuel injection stuff
No. Bought mine back in '09. Aside from googling, is there anywhere I should go to read about it? Can I upgrade my old box?
I wish I had an extra dyno in my garage so tuning would be easy. I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to tune the individual cylinder yet, but I'm excited about trying to, anyway.
Why should that matter? I mean, if you're timing is off, you still end up tuning to MBT, right? So you might think it's 24* timing when it's really only 19*, but it's still at MBT... Same thing, I'd assume, with injector phasing.
our box was sent back to have the upgrade done... think its 750 bucks or something...
as for how to tune it. you would honestly need 8 EGT's to do it right
So, my understanding about tuning using EGT is that you first have to find MBT on a dyno so you have an idea of what to look for from the EGTs. Do you know if the EGT will be the same for MBT at partial loads and WOT? Will it be the same from cyl to cyl?
I would consider ponying up the money if this was a straightforward way to tune, but the tuning forum guys don't seem to be onboard.
It does matter, the FAST needs to see the crank trigger signal 50* BTDC so that it has the time to calculate spark timing events. If the crank trigger signal shows up 10* early, the FAST makes all of the timing calculations wrong. You just cannot go into the ignition table and correct for a 10* error in crank trigger setting. The distributor (cam sensor) gets phased 10* BTDC and the crank sensor gets set @50* BTDC. those two inputs primarily are what the FAST uses to determine timing events. Having them (either one) off by 10* really jacks up the algorithm that is used to calculate ignition and injector timing. We did try to give the engine 10* more ignition timing to see if that would work and it does not. There were minor improvements in the way the engine ran but it was not happy. It was not until we checked the crank trigger setting that we found that it was off by about 10*
Are you telling me that it wouldn't run identically if you advanced your entire spark table by 2*, advanced the injections by 2*, and then retarded by rotating the distributor 2*?
Rotating the dist. has no affect, base timing stays the same. When you phase the dist. rotor to the cap at 10* btdc that is setting the cam sync in the ecu. after that moving the dist. left or right while the engine is running has zero effect on ignition timing. This setting is used in conjunction with the crank trigger. The crank trigger sensor has to line up dead on with one of the magnets in the trigger wheel at 50* btdc. #1 cyl. This tells the ecu where the crankshaft is in relation to #1 cylinder. Inside the MSD dist. the trigger wheel has only one pole that goes by the pip sensor instead of 8 of them. That one pole lines up with the pip sensor at the same time the rotor lines up with the #1 post on the dist. cap. (@10* btdc) The other 7 posts on that reluctor wheel or trigger wheel have been removed. Also removed is the TFI module. The 3 wires that went to the TFI module are now used directly by the ecu, one is ground, one is 5 volt reference and the other is 12 volt key on power. This is the modification that turns the dist. into a cam sync sensor. The spark is still distributed by the rotor to the cap, but the ecu dictates when that happens based upon the position of the crank in relation to the cam (crank trigger to cam sync/ crank trigger to dist rotor phasing). That phasing of the crank sensor and cam sensor (dist) is critical to the ecu being able to calculate ignition timing events and triggering the injectors sequentially. My explanation may be a bit convoluted, Brian Macy of Horsepower Connection does a much better job of accurately describing the whyfores and whatnots of how the system works.