No start question

Leezure

New Member
May 10, 2005
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After several months of down time I finally got the headers on and went to fire it up. As you may have guessed by the title of this thread it didn't.

The engine ran fine prior to taking off the headers.

This is a carbed 408 with an MSD 6AL. Firing order has been checked and rechecked. There is fuel in the bowls, pressure is good and fuel flows from the squirters.

When I turn the engine over I get a timing light flash when I attach the pickup to each ignition wire.

Does this mean I am getting spark to the plugs?

When I connect my volt meter to the low side of the ignition coil I get 0 volts with the key in the run position. I don't have a helper to turn the engine over so I don't know if the coil gets power on an intermittent basis.

All input is welcome.

Thanks
 
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Cranks Ok but no start for carb’d cars.
Updated 4-Sep-2006
Carb'd cars require an old time approach to troubleshooting.

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw with the red wire to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Coil
B.) Distributor PIP sensor or points & condenser
C.) Bad ignition Box or Duraspark unit
D.) No power to ignition system wiring or ignition box (if used)
E.) Bad ignition switch
F.) Bad fuse links.

AutoZone wiring diagrams

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model Mustangs

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
4.) Pull the air cleaner and sniff for fuel vapor - look for signs of flooding. If so, then press the accelerator to the floor and crank for a while – if the engine is flooded, this will clear it out. You may want to have a jumper battery & cables handy.
5.) Electric fuel pump if you have one, is it getting power? Use a volt meter or test light to probe the wires at the pump.

Don't see any evidence of flooding? Then pump the throttle - does the accelerator pump squirt fuel? If so then you should have enough fuel to start the engine. If not look for fuel delivery problems. Check the fuel pump, and fuel filter. Remember that most carbs have a fuel inlet filter that protects the float needle valve from trash.

Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air cleaner, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reinstall the air cleaner and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reinstalling the air cleaner. If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased. If the engine starts now, you have a fuel delivery problem.

A warning about backfires: Holley carbs may have damaged power valves as the result of a backfire. The engine may be hard to start. Other symptoms are that it may seem to load up on fuel and be slow to accelerate until it clears out a bit.

6.) Fuel & ignition OK:
Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Check to verify that it is indeed an HO firing order. Remove the #1 & #3 spark plugs. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Slowly turn the engine until the TDC mark and the timing pointer line up. Mark TDC on the balancer with chalk or paint. Put your finger in #3 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. You should feel pressure trying to blow past your finger. If you do not feel pressure, repeat the process again. If you feel pressure, it is a HO engine.

No pressure the second time, remove spark plug #5. Put your finger in #1 spark plug hole. Crank the engine over until you feel compression on #1 cylinder. Put your finger in #5 spark plug hole and crank the engine 90 degrees. If you feel pressure now, the engine is not a HO model, no matter what it says on the engine.

Using a small carpenter or machinist square to mark the harmonic balancer off into 90 degree sections may be helpful here.

A 15/16 deep socket & breaker bar or ratchet may be used to turn the engine.
 
Update: I spent a great deal of time with MSD tech support. We eliminated problems with the box and coil and verified that the magnetic pickup was working. There is spark at the plugs.

The timing light shows the spark occurs at TDC. All wiring checks out.

I have fuel pressure and the fuel bowls are at the proper level. The fuel squirters are working and fuel can be smelled while cranking. This engine ran fine prior to this.

What gives?????
 
If the distributor is out 180 degreees, the timing light will still flash at TDC. However, it will not be TDC for #1 sparkplug.

Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.

The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.

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Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing. If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that if it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.

At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light and start the engine. Set the timing where your car runs best. Don't forget to disconnect the SPOUT jumper connector when you set the timing, and plug it back in when you finish.
 
The distributor has not been removed since the last time it ran. I am working my way through your checklist and have resolved myself to a fuel problem. I purchased some starter fluid and will try that tomorrow along with some fresh fuel.
Everything I read says that it is either spark or fuel. I have eliminated spark so fuel it is.
 
Update:

After working through JRichker's checklist I was down to the last detail. Starter Fluid. One shot of this magical gas and all was well.

Problem may have been: Old gas in the fuel bowls (sat six months), cold temperature (65 degrees), Gremlins etc