street tune or dyno tune

[Don 95Vert]

I agree with Kevin on this. This is true ESPECIALLY with a turbo car - you'll never see the boost you will on any dyno as you will on the street and you will never load the engine like you will do on the street. We used a Mustang dyno which is an Eddy current dyno and it does NOT load the car like the street does. We ALWAYS do turbo cars on the street, than if the owners wants, we check it on the dyno.

We tuned a turbo Gen 2 Lightning a month or so ago that made 800/800 - we dialed the tune in on the street - got the AFR to 11.4 or so on the street. Then we took it to the dyno to se if we could dial it in better. It was right on and the significant thing about this is using two widebands, including the one we used on the street, the AFR went from 11.4 - to about 10.9. We did NOT adjust it though because we knew it would be perfect on the street. Had we tuned it exclusively on the dyno, it'd have been too lean on the street.

 

[jstreet0204]

One thing I would add though, is be careful with street tunes. I do agree that a street tune done right will always be safer, and more accurate, but a street tune takes time to do right, and I can't see many tuners wanting to spend the amount of time it can take to dial in someone elses car on the street. If the tuner gives you your car back after a half hour, it probably isn't a perfect street tune. A good street tune takes into account much more than just WOT and drivability will be much better with a street tune.

 

[Stang01GT]

All i can say is kevin at wickedmotorsports did an awesome job street tuning my 2001 mustang gt with a vortech v2-sq, not only does it drive better then stock when crusing around but it pulls great when it you get on it. He got the air fuel right around 11.5. I know he didnt rush on my car either he had it for a couple days and it was well worth it. Only bad part is im already used to the power so i gotta start saving for more parts, probably a whole new engine next summer and then upping the boost.

 

[jstreet0204]

2. Tuning should be done in your 1.1 gear so just how fast will the car be going on the STREET in your 1.1 ratio (i.e. 4th gear or drive) at redline? I'm going to take a stab and say well into the go to jail do not pass go speed range. Plus I might trust my tuner but turning him lose in my car that I'm responsible for if he wipes out at over 100mph and kills someone nope not that much trust.

Not true. You should "dyno tune" your car in 4th, but you can and should street tune in all gears. If you need to make WOT runs over 100, that is what test and tune nights are for at the track. You can dyno tune in 3rd if you want to but the numbers will show lower much like 4.10's will give you lower readings than the stock gears.

 

[wicked92]

All i can say is kevin at wickedmotorsports did an awesome job street tuning my 2001 mustang gt with a vortech v2-sq, not only does it drive better then stock when crusing around but it pulls great when it you get on it. He got the air fuel right around 11.5. I know he didnt rush on my car either he had it for a couple days and it was well worth it. Only bad part is im already used to the power so i gotta start saving for more parts, probably a whole new engine next summer and then upping the boost.

Thanks Randy, complements like that make it all worth it. I knew you would get used to the speed, told ya a novi2000 would have been better, lol.
My street tunes take no less than 4 hours to complete. Its a time consumer, but i just can't let a car go not where i want it.
Thanks Don for chiming in. Im not trying to pick fights with people or anything but i keep seeing false info sway people in wrong directions.
Yeah some cars i do pull in 3rd gear. And to verify, i have backed up the same pulls in 4th and load and a/f were spot on. 3rd on the street with wind resistance is like 4th on a dyno.

 

[hotmustang331]

a safe tune on the dyno, isnt always a safe tune on the street. A safe tune on the street, WILL ALWAYS be a safe tune. The whole thing about "picking up more power on a dyno" from an already proven street tune is just BS. If the same guy is doing the tuning, and tuned it off the street or even the track, it will not have anymore left in it, especially if its safe, compared to having it strapped down to a dyno. You guys really gotta be kidding me with some of the stuff you say on here. Most of its all hearsay from other shops or tuners just trying to get your job. Please try to keep some of the misleading info from swaying people to shops or individuals, based on non-credible info.
Engine fundamentals are simple, a motor will only produce so much power with a given amount of timing and set a/f ratio.....period. I dont care if its on a dyno, the street, the track etc. The only thing you get from a dyno is a nice sheet to have your numbers on. Dont get me wrong it does aid in tuning, but its not the only way to tune.

On a side note, even with a "loaded" dyno, you still arent seeing wind resistance, true air density, correct coolant temps, IAT temps, because you are standing still with no "significant" airflow compared to a moving car cutting thru the air. Most of your NMRA, FFW racers all tune their cars at the track, or shall i say "on the street".

Well actually your wrong. When you put a "street tuned" car on a dynojet, there will be some power left on the table...and the 1 reason ill include is DEFINITE but really only works on dynojets (mustang dynos load to about the same as the street)

When you street tune to have say a 13-1 A/F, whats going to happen when you put it on a dynojet? Its GOING to be richer because there is less load on te engine..so they can pull a bit more fuel and make a few more ponies to get it to 13-1. Then when you get on the street its a little leaner and makes even more power.

Street tuning is a VERY safe tune, but a dynojet tuned car WILL walk a street tuned car with slightly less safety given the same tuner tuning to the same INDICATED parameters (13-1 A/F, X amount of timing, ect).

Come on man arent you supposed to be a tuner? You should know this.

 

[jstreet0204]

Well actually your wrong. When you put a "street tuned" car on a dynojet, there will be some power left on the table...and the 1 reason ill include is DEFINITE but really only works on dynojets (mustang dynos load to about the same as the street)

When you street tune to have say a 13-1 A/F, whats going to happen when you put it on a dynojet? Its GOING to be richer because there is less load on te engine..so they can pull a bit more fuel and make a few more ponies to get it to 13-1. Then when you get on the street its a little leaner and makes even more power.

Street tuning is a VERY safe tune, but a dynojet tuned car WILL walk a street tuned car with slightly less safety given the same tuner tuning to the same INDICATED parameters (13-1 A/F, X amount of timing, ect).

Come on man arent you supposed to be a tuner? You should know this.

Read Don's reply to Kevins post. If you are questioning his knowledge as a tuner, you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[hotmustang331]

I read that, but im not concerned with what some Don guy says. I quoted wicked, he said "The whole thing about "picking up more power on a dyno" from an already proven street tune is just BS." And thats what I was responding to.

I havnt ever heard of either of them actually, so why shouldnt I doubt their tuning ability? Especially when statements like this are made .

I backed up what he said about a street tune being safe...and IT IS. Just saying that you will pick up power on a dyno, but it wont be as safe as a result.

BTW Ill stick with Tim @ MPH using a dyno....he has an incredible safety record. Tuning stock GTs, to 1000+RWHP turbo modulars.

 

[04azuremach]

I went to Kauffman's after a considerable amount of street tuning and laid down 348 RWHP. After some tweaking from Kauffmans on a DYNO, I laid down 375 RWHP and gained 1.3 MPH in the 1/4 on a HOTTER day than when I was trapping lower. Dyno tuning FTW.

 

[DropTopPony]

I went to Kauffman's after a considerable amount of street tuning and laid down 348 RWHP. After some tweaking from Kauffmans on a DYNO, I laid down 375 RWHP and gained 1.3 MPH in the 1/4 on a HOTTER day than when I was trapping lower. Dyno tuning FTW.

Kauffman 4TW... they have a great rep in the NE...similar to Tim at MPH in the South.

 

[jstreet0204]

I read that, but im not concerned with what some Don guy says. I quoted wicked, he said "The whole thing about "picking up more power on a dyno" from an already proven street tune is just BS." And thats what I was responding to.

I havnt ever heard of either of them actually, so why shouldnt I doubt their tuning ability? Especially when statements like this are made .

I backed up what he said about a street tune being safe...and IT IS. Just saying that you will pick up power on a dyno, but it wont be as safe as a result.

BTW Ill stick with Tim @ MPH using a dyno....he has an incredible safety record. Tuning stock GTs, to 1000+RWHP turbo modulars.

Don verified what Kevin was saying. Don literally wrote the SCT tuning manual, and is in the process of publishing another book on the Xcal. So as far as I'm concerned, you aren't going to get anymore knowledgeable advice.

 

[DropTopPony]

I agree with Kevin on this. This is true ESPECIALLY with a turbo car - you'll never see the boost you will on any dyno as you will on the street and you will never load the engine like you will do on the street. We used a Mustang dyno which is an Eddy current dyno and it does NOT load the car like the street does. We ALWAYS do turbo cars on the street, than if the owners wants, we check it on the dyno.

We tuned a turbo Gen 2 Lightning a month or so ago that made 800/800 - we dialed the tune in on the street - got the AFR to 11.4 or so on the street. Then we took it to the dyno to se if we could dial it in better. It was right on and the significant thing about this is using two widebands, including the one we used on the street, the AFR went from 11.4 - to about 10.9. We did NOT adjust it though because we knew it would be perfect on the street. Had we tuned it exclusively on the dyno, it'd have been too lean on the street.

is this Don as in Don from SCT?

 

[hotmustang331]

Don verified what Kevin was saying. Don literally wrote the SCT tuning manual, and is in the process of publishing another book on the Xcal. So as far as I'm concerned, you aren't going to get anymore knowledgeable advice.

Dude, listen to what im saying....I DONT CARE WHAT DON SAYS!!!! I quoted Kevin.

But just for your sake, lets look at what don said...he just proved kevin wrong actually as he said they didnt attempt to lean the turbo vehicle out on the dyno (meaning that if they would have leaned it out to the 11.4 A/F they got on the street, IT WOULD HAVE MADE MORE POWER. BUT wouldnt have been as safe.) . EXACTLY what I was saying.
Kevin says you wont see anymore power by tuning it on the dyno as a X-X A/F is an X-X A/F if its on the street or on a dyno. And thats wrong, if thats infact what he was meaning and dint miss word his statement.

Jeeze dude, your too busy nut hugging that you dont even understand what people are saying . Honestly if your going to be like that, and this is your level of understanding I really dont want your advice. (with all due respect ofcourse) BTW Im done with this thread....

 

[jstreet0204]

Dude, listen to what im saying....I DONT CARE WHAT DON SAYS!!!! I quoted Kevin.

But just for your sake, lets look at what don said...he just proved kevin wrong actually as he said they didnt attempt to lean the turbo vehicle out on the dyno (meaning that if they would have leaned it out to the 11.4 A/F they got on the street, IT WOULD HAVE MADE MORE POWER. BUT wouldnt have been as safe.) . EXACTLY wat I was saying.
Kevin says you wont see anymore power by tuning it on the dyno as a X-X A/F is an X-X A/F if its on the street or on a dyno. And thats wrong.

Jeeze dude, your too busy nut hugging that you dont even understand what people are saying . Honestly if your going to be like that, and this is your level of understanding I really dont want your advice. (with all due respect ofcourse)

Kevins quote was

If the same guy is doing the tuning, and tuned it off the street or even the track, it will not have anymore left in it, especially if its safe, compared to having it strapped down to a dyno.

So neither of you proved him wrong. You are simply trying to use the term "less safe", but had considered the leaner a/f ratio to be safe to begin with, he would have tuned it to that on the street, and there wouldn't be power left on the table. If you want to use the term "less safe" that's fine. My problem is with somebody who has personally never tuned a car, and gets their knowledge second hand criticizing the guys tuning abilities.

 

[steveb24]

fwiw, i got a street tune done today becuase of my cams i put in over the weekend and my car runs good. The guy who tuned it is located in middletown, DE and he really knows what he's talking about. He was on the cover of MM&FF too, and he said that his street tunes are as good as any dyno tune, which he also does, but for 150 dollars, he said to just let him street tune it. The car really pulls hard now too.

 

[Marks5.0!]

street tune with a wideband is the best way to go. 1st of all, you don't hit full load on a dyno depending on the dyno used. i think mustang dyno's have some type of load in the drums, but even then, i don't think it will cause the car toi hit full load. 2nd, if the car is an automatic, you dyno the car with the torque convertor locked up. on the street, it's not always locked up at WOT. that can throw off your a/f ratio.

 

[COramprat]

a safe tune on the dyno, isnt always a safe tune on the street. A safe tune on the street, WILL ALWAYS be a safe tune.

If this was directed at my post by safe I meant not having to run WOT on the street. Not whether your tune on the dyno would be better or "safer" enginewise than a street tune. Some shops really don't have a 'safe' place to street tune so they install a dyno. I'd have to think a good tuner could compensate for any variances between the street or dyno tune anyway. Turbo cars notwithstanding.

 

[wicked92]

If you are going to refute Dons knowledge thats just absurd, as well as even questioning mine. Don Lasota was onboard from the beginning with SCT, and still continues to do training for them.
And if you really understood what Don was saying it goes like this.....

If you have a said car making a said number on the street with a given a/f and timing, on the dyno the car may be rich, yes on a dyno you may pick up a few HP compared to the same prior pulls before manipulating the tune further, but get that car back on the street with its "NEW" dyno improved numbers "dyno numbers" the car will be leaner than it was before, so all you are doing is making the car more agressive by tuning it only on the dyno. Try reading what he really was saying.

 

[wicked92]

Dude, listen to what im saying....I DONT CARE WHAT DON SAYS!!!! I quoted Kevin.

But just for your sake, lets look at what don said...he just proved kevin wrong actually as he said they didnt attempt to lean the turbo vehicle out on the dyno (meaning that if they would have leaned it out to the 11.4 A/F they got on the street, IT WOULD HAVE MADE MORE POWER. BUT wouldnt have been as safe.) . EXACTLY what I was saying.
Kevin says you wont see anymore power by tuning it on the dyno as a X-X A/F is an X-X A/F if its on the street or on a dyno. And thats wrong, if thats infact what he was meaning and dint miss word his statement.

Jeeze dude, your too busy nut hugging that you dont even understand what people are saying . Honestly if your going to be like that, and this is your level of understanding I really dont want your advice. (with all due respect ofcourse) BTW Im done with this thread....

Thank you then, the people that have no clue will leave this discussion, and the ones that offer some real credible help and knowledge will stay. Buhh Byeee.

 

[wicked92]

Well actually your wrong. When you put a "street tuned" car on a dynojet, there will be some power left on the table...and the 1 reason ill include is DEFINITE but really only works on dynojets (mustang dynos load to about the same as the street)

When you street tune to have say a 13-1 A/F, whats going to happen when you put it on a dynojet? Its GOING to be richer because there is less load on te engine..so they can pull a bit more fuel and make a few more ponies to get it to 13-1. Then when you get on the street its a little leaner and makes even more power.

Street tuning is a VERY safe tune, but a dynojet tuned car WILL walk a street tuned car with slightly less safety given the same tuner tuning to the same INDICATED parameters (13-1 A/F, X amount of timing, ect).

Come on man arent you supposed to be a tuner? You should know this.

you just indicated yourself, A street tune will be richer on the dyno, and you will make more power by leaning it out, but then when you are back on the street its leaner than intended, so how can you compare apples to apples my friend. 2 exact cars with the same mods with same timing and a/f should technically make the same power, the only way your DYNO TUNE will walk the street tune is because its LEANER, thus you cant compare the 2, now go away you ass.