TwEECer, PMS, AEM, ETC... I'm so confused!

[Daggar]

Ok... those have seen me around for a while know I'm a die hard SD fan (inhearant limitations and all). I've been looking at add on chips, replacment EMSs and the like and everyone has likes and dislikes for this system or that, but few have actually run any of them. So what's you all's takes on the various engine management systems out there? Good or bad, post your likes and dislikes as well as what to look out for keeping in mind that the system I will eventually run will be tuned by SD and not MAF.

Thanks!

 

[nmcgrawj]

Words from Troy Chapman from Stangtuning.com....

The PMS and TwEECer do have their advantages over one
another, and they work in different ways. The PMS is
simple to use, it modifies the signals going to and
from the EEC with an inline 60pin harness. Your just
modifying what the EEC sees and what it is sending
out. The TwEECer you actually change the tables in
the EEC. The TwEECer you can upload many calibrations
at once. The PMS you just modify the tables in the
PMS. The PMS has Idle tables, 8 part throttle areas
(from low load to high load), WOT tables. This, to
me, is much more simple than changing different
functions, scalers, and tables in the TwEECer...plus
you need to know what those tables and functions do.
With the PMS you just add/subtract fuel or
timing...very simple and effective.
Things the PMS can do that the TwEECer can't...the PMS
has boost tables and nitrous tables. Using a MAP
sensor or wiring the nitrous solenoid wire to the PMS,
and when it sense boost (or nitrous) it will revert to
your nitrous/boost tables. With the TwEECer you have
to design a program for boost or nitrous, and then
swap to it. The PMS can also turn things
on/off...like water injection or nitrous. I'll be
using the PMS to act as a window switch for my nitrous
kit. I'll have the nitrous turn on at 4,000rpms and
turnoff at 6700rpms...you input a TPS percentage and
RPM as on/off points. The PMS also has a built in
Two-Step rev limiter...really nice for 5spd cars. The
best feature is Standalone. When standalone is used
the PMS bypasses the EEC, locks the timing at 25
degrees total and shoots for 12:1 a/f. You then add
in your timing/fuel into the WOT tables. The EEC is
not really consistent on timing as compared to the
PMS.
Things the TwEECer can do that the PMS can't are turn
off sensors like EGR and smog pump, to help with Check
Engine Light...you can tell it where your O2 are
located. The PMS does not access all the scalars in
the EEC like the TwEECer can do.
The TwEECer is lower priced but requires a laptop.
The PMS does not require a laptop, but if you want the
optional software to have more tuning options and
datalogging then you need a laptop. You will see more
racers with a PMS and more street cars with a TwEECer.
Also on telling the EEC where the O2s are...I don't
have my O2s plugged in. I leave them unplugged, let
the EEC havee a default voltage, and then the EEC
can't learn around changes and I just use my wideband
to tune all areas.
Bottom line is they both work, and work well. Both
have good support. For me the PMS was more simple and
easy to use and does everything I need it to do. If
you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Well I've had the PMS vs. TwEECer debate many
times...since I've used both. The O2 sensor deal is
something new that me and a few other PMS users are
trying out. It is more involved, b/c you have to do a
lot of part throttle tuning. But it does keep the EEC
from relearning. At first I wouldn't recommend it
till your more familiar with the PMS etc. The EEC
receives signals from the O2s while in closed loop and
saves those numbers in the KAM tables to revert back
to always provide good part throttle control. When
you unplug the O2s, the EEC will have a default
voltage and therefore it has nothing to go on to make
changes. Essentially staying in open loop the whole
time. I think you will be happy with the PMS, my site
has wonderful support and a lot of information and AFM
offers great support as well...also Doug @ EFI Systems
(designer of the PMS) is willing to help with any
software issues. I doubt you will see any updates for
a good 3 years. The last update was 1998 before this
new version in 2004. AFM really played a huge role in
designing the '04 version and really tested it big
time to make sure everything was good. The new
InterACQ is also new, and my buddy did the testing and
worked out all the bugs with Paul @ Plus1. Hope this
helps.

 

[N8Miller]

well, seeing that i have none of the options, im not gonna be much of a help.

BUT, i am going with PMS becasue i hear its more user friendly. From what i have read on stangtuning.com, it seems to be very easy to work with. I would recomend calling each company and telling them and your staying SD, and not MAF.

 

[TT91]

Ill be going with Accell in a few months down the road..

 

[Daggar]

So far it looks like PMS is easier to use but Tweeker has more adjustability and requires a laptop. Laptop I got covered.

 

[mooktank]

doesnt the tweecer require you to run massair?

 

[Daggar]

doesnt the tweecer require you to run massair?

I don't think so but from what I've read the PMS does. I'm not 100% sure on that about the PMS though. I've spoken with some folks at Eurotech out here where I live and they have a few cars out here that run the TwEEcer on SD. They also have a dyno and at least "say" they know how to program the thing. I've already got a laptop that I'm ready to dedicate to this project and so far I think I'm leaning in the twEEcer direction. I'll lear all I can about programming the thing as we go along on the Dyno.

 

[BlackFox5.0]

doesnt the tweecer require you to run massair?

No. The TwEECer is compatible with many cars, from the SVT Contour, to the Lightning, Mach 1, Cobras, GT's, LX's, V6's, SVO's, Merkur XR4Ti's, and I think Thunderbirds too. It all depends on the computer you have. I know for sure that it works with the 86-88 Speed Density DA1 computer.

The only downside to TwEECer is that you have to learn what everything does on your own. Of course thier forums help a ton, and most everything you need can be found there. It's a great, very powerful tool, but requires a lot of studying. Once you master most of it, you should have no kind of problems with your motor running.

 

[Daggar]

No. The TwEECer is compatible with many cars, from the SVT Contour, to the Lightning, Mach 1, Cobras, GT's, LX's, V6's, SVO's, Merkur XR4Ti's, and I think Thunderbirds too. It all depends on the computer you have. I know for sure that it works with the 86-88 Speed Density DA1 computer.

The only downside to TwEECer is that you have to learn what everything does on your own. Of course thier forums help a ton, and most everything you need can be found there. It's a great, very powerful tool, but requires a lot of studying. Once you master most of it, you should have no kind of problems with your motor running.

And initially, I plan to have it dyno tuned by folks that already know the system and how it works. The OJT during the tune should be a good thing.

 

[bossmstng302]

AEM!!! . it certainly is one of the more expensive systems out there but you can run SD or MAF with regular or wideband O2 sensors. the AEM unit completely replaces the original factory EEC computer and retains all connections and wiring harness. this way you dont have to rewire everything. its a VERY simple install. remove kick panel and simply plop the new unit in place of the factory orig.... then fire it up . the computer comes loaded with a basic mapping so you can run the car immediately. now you are still gonna want to get a tune and the AEM unit does require a laptop or a dynojet setup w/ proper equipment. the software that comes with the kit is VERY simple to navigate/understand and comes with nice features like realtime data if you get their wideband o2' option. a feature i like to utilize with my laptop is the virtual guages that you can view to see how things are running (realtime ofcourse). of course the unit has data logging... some outragous amout (20 hours if i am correct ) there are tons of provisions for boost and single/multistage nitrous applications. it is a very effective system that can support anything i can think of. the price may be a big to some people when compared to some of the other systems available (piggy back styles come to mind), but ultimately it depends what you want to get out of your car. i run the AEM setup (MAF) with wideband 02's on my 91' hatch with a 347 and novi 2000 pushing roughly 14lbs on 91 octane. after a couple quick spins on the dyno and some adjustments. the thing runs perfect.... actually i think it runs smoother and more efficient than showroom stock ones do. i just thought i would share my experience not only for you but for some of the other guys who are planning on making some KING KONG power. any questions let me know. this system may be a little overkill and $$$ pricey for some... but i am the "do-it-once-do-it-right" kinda person. good luck. most of the systems out their (even the piggy back) should take care of you... mostly its all in the tune and if the unit can support the adjustments required to get your PARTICULAR APPLICATION running smoothly and safely.

 

[Daggar]

Yeah... I've read quite allot about the AEM and love everything about it except for the price tag. $1600 for that beast! Eventually, I'd like to have one but it's not in the cards at this point. At 4x the expense of the other solutions, it's hard to justify getting due only to it's ease of use. Don't get me wrong, if I weren't planning on spending money on other parts of the car including 5 Lug Disk, Coil overs, and suspension and completing my 331 to plug into my Kenne Bell, I'd be all over it. Thanks for the reply though.

 

[bossmstng302]

:worship:

Yeah... I've read quite allot about the AEM and love everything about it except for the price tag. $1600 for that beast! QUOTE]

yeah i know.... $1600+ is a mega amount for something especially if you have other stuff on you to do list. believe me... i waited and saved for quite a while to get just my engine/drivetrain the way i wanted it.... and that doesnt even include my bitchen suspension , fuel system , paint/body , oh and interior . everytime i told myself it was done it didnt happen. its been two long and expensive years, but everytime i drive or even see my car i soil myself :worship: ... . once you get addicted to perfection and going fast it gets expensive . good luck daggar... let me know if there are any particular questions regarding some of the other systems out there. i did a crapload of research and can more than likely tell you what works and what sucks. your PMS / Tweecer options are some of the better ones out there. take care bud

 

[matm347]

I went with the tweecer RT for my weekend car. I like the 5 different tunes that I can swap to on the fly...the price didnt hurt any either.

The software isn't hard to learn, theres tons of explanations on what the different things do, as well as a handy yahoo group just for tweecer.

Lots of people run the PMS, but I don't see any problems with the tweecer growing with my system.

By the way, you could get a taste of the tweecer by downloading the software from their site and go thru it.

 

[Daggar]

I went with the tweecer RT for my weekend car. I like the 5 different tunes that I can swap to on the fly...the price didnt hurt any either.

The software isn't hard to learn, theres tons of explanations on what the different things do, as well as a handy yahoo group just for tweecer.

Lots of people run the PMS, but I don't see any problems with the tweecer growing with my system.

By the way, you could get a taste of the tweecer by downloading the software from their site and go thru it.

From what I've read... The Tweecer can do all of the things the PMS can but does it in a different way (the post up top here pretty much confirms that). The big draw to the PMS is it's ease of use (set up more for "on the fly" changes at the race track). I'm not too concerned with the lack of specialized boost tables on the Tweeker since the blower in my car is always on and I've no intention of ever running N20. What are the major differences between the Tweecer and the RT?

 

[mooktank]

i think its just the datalogging feature. With the R/T it logs the data so you can go back and tune accordingly. Im not exactly sure though.

 

[Nutty 5.o]

If you were staying with mass air, the PMS has my vote. The twitcher is nice, but I like simple. Less tables I can screw up!

 

[Rick 91GT]

The new style PMS is hard to beat, and is among the top choices of many, many racers.

Unlock the Performance Potential of your EEC-IV with Engine Tuning Adjustability Not Available in any Performance "Chip"!
The P.M.S. goes far beyond the capabilities of a performance "chip", offering a broad selection of adjustments and tuning. Now you can take advantage of aftermarket performance components while still using the stock engine control computer! Step up to the P.M.S. and move into tomorrow's world of performance!


The PMS for 89-95 EEC-IV Mustang has some great new features for 2004 in addition to all the other great features it already has.

* Now comes with global fuel adjustments, which means you can offset the mass air for different sized injectors.

* Air charge temp and Water temp fuel and timing adjustments can now be made from -40 to +250 degrees

* TPS volts are now adjustable: What this means is if you want 1.05 to be idle you put that in. The same with W.O.T. - you tell the PMS what volts.

* NEW! Easier to use controller with adjustments down to 500 rpm increments starting at 2000 rpm

* NEW! for 2004 single data display screens let you monitor spark timing, injector function, oxygen sensor, water temp, air charge temp., mass air voltage and manifold pressure/vacuum

* Start fuel setting, which controls the injector when the starter is turning the motor over. This gets rid of the hard starting with 42 lb. injector or bigger.

* Air Fuel Mixture fully adjustable.

* Idle Mixture and Timing fully adjustable.


* Stand alone turn on is now adjustable: The stand alone is set up to turn on at 3500rpm, which can be adjusted from 2000 rpm to 5600 rpm. The factory EEC has no control in standalone mode. This gives us even better fuel and timing control and now the Rev limiter can be moved to as high as 9900 rpm with a faster processor.

* Total spark and rate-of-advance fully adjustable.

* Two step rev-limiter.

* Two programmable RPM/Throttle output accessory control switches.

* Tunable Nitrous Oxide Adjustment Table.

* Tunable Turbo or Supercharger timing and fuel adjustment up to 30lb of boost.

* Purple anodized, finned aluminum case resists corrosion, dirt and moisture!

* Easy installation in less than one hour.

* Plug in and Run” installations requires no programming—Just start it up and go!

* Increased RAM, EPROM, and EEPROM Internal Memory Capacity!

* Easy “User Friendly” operation—detailed owner’s manual explains all functions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INTER-ACQ 3.0 FOR WINDOWS NOW AVAILABLE FOR THE PMS

$269.00, EF -INTERW

Minimum System Requirements: 500 MHz Pentium III Processor, 128MB RAM

Supported Operating Systems: Windows 9x & 2000, Windows XP

I/O Requirements: RS232 Com Port or USB (requires external USB to Com Port Converter)

Comprehensive PMS Control, Data Acquisition, Stand Alone Design and Editing

Some New Features:
Automatic Connection/Monitor, and Triggering for Racing
User Customizable Monitor Screens (dash boards)
Log Book to keep track of data runs
Customizable Meters (i.e. Wide Band O2)




INTERLOG FOR WINDOWS NOW AVAILABLE FOR THE PMS

$175.00

Data Recording only for use with a laptop

 

[Daggar]

Has anyone ever had mention worthy problems with their TwEECer that made you regret ever getting the thing?

 

[BlackFox5.0]

Has anyone ever had mention worthy problems with their TwEECer that made you regret ever getting the thing?

It's not as easy as just pushing a button like the PMS. I like it because you can go through your tune with a fine tooth comb with TwEECer.

 

[Daggar]

It's not as easy as just pushing a button like the PMS. I like it because you can go through your tune with a fine tooth comb with TwEECer.

I like having that abilty and for the money, I can certainly afford to have the Tweeker setup professionally the first time. For that matter, having a pro tune it after each mod doesn't sound bad at all. At least until I get the hang of of all the inner workings.