What do i need to beat a 2008 Zo6?

[95Vert383AOD]

I have to agree with bentley.... Toss a 500+hp motor into a mustang with a tranny...HAHAAA do you really want to be the guy who breaks down to/ from or at the track??? I personally beat the piss out of my mustang. Cut you have to build the car up....it adds up!!! A fuel system the right way will cost you $2000...Aeromotive pump $300, Pre pump and after pump filter $120 each. The sump fuel tank....$20 for EACH elbow...braided line runs about $6-7 per foot. I have a 255lph pump sitting in front of me....because i thought that would be enough with stock lines. Stock lines were enough to make my car get 265 hp @ 4000rpm and 497.3 RWTQ @ 2000 rpm. My 383 with stock fuel lines would make the pressure drop 15-20psi when i revved the engine. My engine was drinking fuel out the rails faster than my 255lph pump could get it there. BTW i run only 36lb injectors, No power adder. Take a look at a fuel line on a 500hp Vette bet they're alot bigger than a stock Mustang. Hell my friend is restoring a 1966 Pontiac Catalina. The fuel lines on it are nearly twice the size of a mustangs and it was a 400ci motor making nowhere near 500hp. But i digress....i built a fuel system all Aeromotive and i even made my own Sump tank (to save money) and it still came to around $2000+. Fittings alone were a few hundred. Im not a fan of piggybacking fuel pumps thats a bandaid for a better pump and bigger lines.

You do a budget 500+ hp car and chances are youll be getting towed home and the Vette will be driving home. Pinging at redline isn't a good thing.
Do it right or don't do it at all noone likes to buy engines or aftermarket race parts twice.

 

[FastDriver]

Yeah, but the point that millhouse is making is that the combo bentley laid out is way overkill. With what Bentley laid out, he basically just built my car, which made a very conservative 762 rwhp on pump gas. Millhouse is trying to lay out what would be necessary to beat a Z06.

As far as a cammed Z06 goes, I'm thinking a fox would need more than 550 rwhp. Z06s make 430ish at the tires stock? I don't know what a cammed one is good for, but I'd guess that they respond as well or better than LS1s do with a cam. I've personally seen an LS1 go from 311 rwhp stock to 410 rwhp with just a cam and headers. So let's give the Z06 the benefit of doubt and say that a cammed Z06 makes 530 rwhp. If you want to walk away pretty solid from this relatively light very aerodynamic car from a roll, I would want 600 ish at the wheels, or a significantly lightened fox. I'd also go by the rule of thumb that for every 10 rwhp you don't have, you'd have to be 100 lbs lighter than the Z06, which is already somewhere between 3100 and 3200 lbs. So 550 rwhp in a 2600-2700 lbs stang would still get the job done.

I'd be cool with pushing a stock block to 500 rwhp with a conservative tune. I would not be cool with pushing the block to 600 rwhp, though. It can be done, but it would be a ticking time bomb.

Chris

 

[KamiKaziDK]

Yeah, bently is kinda in lines with what I was saying at 30k for a bulletproof solid combo that is overkill. Nobody needs a 1,000 dollar fuel system and 5,000 dollar short block to hit 500hp in our cars, lol. The only fox that weighs 3400 lbs is a vert GT with a heavy driver...even the car shouldn't cost 5,000....I see clean stock 5.0s all the time for 2k to 3k. The real fact is, that even when we make our cars these overkilled bulletproof run on rails racing machines....they still only cost 30k dollars when we put the most expensive top of the line crap we can think of in them :SNSign:

 

[7upstang91]

Cobra Motor Whippled! End of Story!

 

[fiveohwblow]

I would say I have a total of 15k into my car and I paid just over 6k for it when I bought it five years ago. I have a stock block and have app 420 rwhp on a Mustang Dyno which is roughly 500 crank HP give or take a few and it is VERY sustainable. I have been supercharged on this STOCK block for 4 years and have had to replace NOTHING. That being said, if I wanted to get a block it would be around the $2k mark and I could push another 100 rwhp with the combo I have. I would say 4 Years is reliable. I have 42 lb injectors $300, a Walbro 255 lph $100, and Accufab FPR $150 and my fuel system is more than adequate with 500 crank HP. 30,000 miles says so. My 15k price also includes some suspension, aluminum driveshaft, carpet because I wanted black, wheels, gauges etc. These quotes are for a magazine and not for the real world in my opinion. Both my tuners and local shop owners agree my combo is good for high 11's on my street tires, not slicks. Im damn close to a z06, and it wouldnt take much more to be there. Any locals will also tell you my car is done right and very clean. I am not trying to brag, but to settle this debate because I have done this and proven its reliability. It wont take much, but in retrospect 15k doesnt just fall off trees. The hobby is expensive no matter which route but bottom line; I would rather build it than buy it.

 

[blackened88lx]

X2

So instead of 500rwhp, it will take 550+rwhp to keep up with the average "cammed" c6 z06....which according to the link above runs a 10.901 @ 129.95 mph. Respectable? Hell yes...but FAR from unbeatable.

Like I said, bone stock ones have gone 10.9x @ 129 mph with stock run flat tires when driven properly. I'm sure it could be a solid 10.8x car with drag radials or slicks and a GOOD driver. I would hope a cam would pick up more than a half a tenth and a half a mph.

As far as a cammed Z06 goes, I'm thinking a fox would need more than 550 rwhp. Z06s make 430ish at the tires stock? I don't know what a cammed one is good for, but I'd guess that they respond as well or better than LS1s do with a cam. I've personally seen an LS1 go from 311 rwhp stock to 410 rwhp with just a cam and headers. So let's give the Z06 the benefit of doubt and say that a cammed Z06 makes 530 rwhp. If you want to walk away pretty solid from this relatively light very aerodynamic car from a roll, I would want 600 ish at the wheels, or a significantly lightened fox. I'd also go by the rule of thumb that for every 10 rwhp you don't have, you'd have to be 100 lbs lighter than the Z06, which is already somewhere between 3100 and 3200 lbs. So 550 rwhp in a 2600-2700 lbs stang would still get the job done.
Chris

I posted about what they can make with a cam and exhaust. 427cui, 11:1, heads that flow 352cfm, and throw in a .700" lift cam? I'm gonna give it a liiiittle bit more than 530 with the right selection of parts and a good tune. I've seen stock short block 346 ls1s make over 500rwhp at very reasonable rpm levels with a good h/c/i setup n/a, and the heads on the ls7 flow more than what I'm talking about.

Cobra Motor Whippled! End of Story!

Yea that would be cheap, you win.

I would say I have a total of 15k into my car and I paid just over 6k for it when I bought it five years ago. I have a stock block and have app 420 rwhp on a Mustang Dyno which is roughly 500 crank HP give or take a few and it is VERY sustainable. I have been supercharged on this STOCK block for 4 years and have had to replace NOTHING. That being said, if I wanted to get a block it would be around the $2k mark and I could push another 100 rwhp with the combo I have. I would say 4 Years is reliable. I have 42 lb injectors $300, a Walbro 255 lph $100, and Accufab FPR $150 and my fuel system is more than adequate with 500 crank HP. 30,000 miles says so. My 15k price also includes some suspension, aluminum driveshaft, carpet because I wanted black, wheels, gauges etc. These quotes are for a magazine and not for the real world in my opinion. Both my tuners and local shop owners agree my combo is good for high 11's on my street tires, not slicks. Im damn close to a z06, and it wouldnt take much more to be there. Any locals will also tell you my car is done right and very clean. I am not trying to brag, but to settle this debate because I have done this and proven its reliability. It wont take much, but in retrospect 15k doesnt just fall off trees. The hobby is expensive no matter which route but bottom line; I would rather build it than buy it.

Sooo... What's it run? Oh yea, that's why it's still together and that's why you assume it's as fast as a stock z06. Of course it's going to survive going to the grocery store on street tires.


The mod that I believe would make or break either car is the biggest one of all. It seems like everyone is assuming the Z06 will have the worst driver on earth and run 12 flat and the Mustang will have a pro driver and go 1.4s and deep 10s. Everyone has seen 400-500rwhp Mustangs go 12s and 13s with the average driver.

 

[fiveohwblow]

Like I said, bone stock ones have gone 10.9x @ 129 mph with stock run flat tires when driven properly. I'm sure it could be a solid 10.8x car with drag radials or slicks and a GOOD driver. I would hope a cam would pick up more than a half a tenth and a half a mph.

I posted about what they can make with a cam and exhaust. 427cui, 11:1, heads that flow 352cfm, and throw in a .700" lift cam? I'm gonna give it a liiiittle bit more than 530 with the right selection of parts and a good tune. I've seen stock short block 346 ls1s make over 500rwhp at very reasonable rpm levels with a good h/c/i setup n/a, and the heads on the ls7 flow more than what I'm talking about.

Yea that would be cheap, you win.

Sooo... What's it run? Oh yea, that's why it's still together and that's why you assume it's as fast as a stock z06. Of course it's going to survive going to the grocery store on street tires.


The mod that I believe would make or break either car is the biggest one of all. It seems like everyone is assuming the Z06 will have the worst driver on earth and run 12 flat and the Mustang will have a pro driver and go 1.4s and deep 10s. Everyone has seen 400-500rwhp Mustangs go 12s and 13s with the average driver.

Ive not succombed to your childish insults and I am not about to. I ran a 12.4 my FIRST time with 80 less rwhp on street tires. I already beat a stock 02 or 03 z06 in that trim and I have yet to take it to the track as is... oh yes the first week of March in the PNW. Any other q's?

Assume...

BTW, .700 lift isnt likely to be that streetable.

 

[KamiKaziDK]

BTW, .700 lift isnt likely to be that streetable.

even with a 215 duration?????

 

[bentley429]

Yeah, but the point that millhouse is making is that the combo bentley laid out is way overkill. With what Bentley laid out, he basically just built my car, which made a very conservative 762 rwhp on pump gas. Millhouse is trying to lay out what would be necessary to beat a Z06.

As far as a cammed Z06 goes, I'm thinking a fox would need more than 550 rwhp. Z06s make 430ish at the tires stock? I don't know what a cammed one is good for, but I'd guess that they respond as well or better than LS1s do with a cam. I've personally seen an LS1 go from 311 rwhp stock to 410 rwhp with just a cam and headers. So let's give the Z06 the benefit of doubt and say that a cammed Z06 makes 530 rwhp. If you want to walk away pretty solid from this relatively light very aerodynamic car from a roll, I would want 600 ish at the wheels, or a significantly lightened fox. I'd also go by the rule of thumb that for every 10 rwhp you don't have, you'd have to be 100 lbs lighter than the Z06, which is already somewhere between 3100 and 3200 lbs. So 550 rwhp in a 2600-2700 lbs stang would still get the job done.

I'd be cool with pushing a stock block to 500 rwhp with a conservative tune. I would not be cool with pushing the block to 600 rwhp, though. It can be done, but it would be a ticking time bomb.

Chris

Right what I said is overkill but there is a huge difference between the stock block and aftermarket. If there was something that easily handled 600-700 I would of suggested that. Actually there is, no idea why I completely forgot about a 351w. That can handle 700+ rwhp, might be a good option to look into. I wanna say a bone stock c6 z06 made about 475 rwhp around here and almost 500 with a midpipe catback and tune but that was awhile ago. So its safe to say one cammed with blow past 550 rwhp. I do kinda agree with what millhouse said but its not dependable, yes it would be fun while it lasted but its not really the choice way.

 

[5.SL0W]

Z06 ftw, i love my foxes to death, but ill never say that the z06 isnt one of the most beautiful and badass cars on the street

 

[bentley429]

YouTube - FRIED CHICKEN

Ms. Peaches should lighten the mood some in this thread.

 

[Taz92gt]

The car in my sig went 13 fat 12.9 all day long 75k miles ago 220k @ present and im an average driver so im sure with an additional 250hp and some seat time even I could do better that 12's.

 

[bentley429]

The car in my sig went 13 fat 12.9 all day long 75k miles ago 220k @ present and im an average driver so im sure with an additional 250hp and some seat time even I could do better that 12's.

 

[Taz92gt]

Im still new @ posting and couldnt figure out how to quote someone but I was refering to blackend88's coment about the driver mod with a 400-500hp car going 13s/12s

 

[bentley429]

Im still new @ posting and couldnt figure out how to quote someone but I was refering to blackend88's coment about the driver mod.

Oh got ya, on the bottom right of a persons comment click on the "quote" button it will bring you right the the reply typing box and quotes what the person said.

 

[Taz92gt]

The mod that I believe would make or break either car is the biggest one of all. It seems like everyone is assuming the Z06 will have the worst driver on earth and run 12 flat and the Mustang will have a pro driver and go 1.4s and deep 10s. Everyone has seen 400-500rwhp Mustangs go 12s and 13s with the average driver.

I got it now lol, all I was getting @ was this comment I think a average driver could do better than 12's/13's with 4 0r 5 hundred hp on tap.

 

[Taz92gt]

Thanks for the info bro

 

[bentley429]

Np problem.

 

[millhouse]

Yeah, but the point that millhouse is making is that the combo bentley laid out is way overkill. With what Bentley laid out, he basically just built my car, which made a very conservative 762 rwhp on pump gas. Millhouse is trying to lay out what would be necessary to beat a Z06.


Chris

Bingo! Nothing more, nothing less.

The question didn't pertain to making a fox as reliable, handle as well or have all of the creature comforts of a Z06....but simply what it would take to walk one. Reality has it, it can be done for less than $5000 and has the capability (with some luck of the Irish) to last several years in that form.

Like I said, bone stock ones have gone 10.9x @ 129 mph with stock run flat tires when driven properly. I'm sure it could be a solid 10.8x car with drag radials or slicks and a GOOD driver. I would hope a cam would pick up more than a half a tenth and a half a mph.

Yes, but that is not what the "AVERAGE" z06 is running! Factory freaks work both ways....as there are stock longblock 5.0 mustangs with power adders running 10's! The best I could find, the "AVERAGE" stock z06 runs a 11.469 secs. @ 124.114 mph and the "AVERAGE" cammed z06 runs a 10.901 secs. @ 129.95 mph. I'd say dropping a good .5sec and picking up nearly 6mph from a cam swap is pretty damn good!

If an ~500rwhp fox mustang is good for ~ 128-130mph traps and secure a win against your average stock z06, I'd say ~550rwhp would be enough to secure a win against your average cammed z06.

 

[FastDriver]

I'm with you all the way on pretty much everything you've said, millhouse. The reason I would shoot for higher than 550rwhp is just my own subjective assessment of what "walking" it would mean.