Alright, here’s my dilemma. I’m wanting to build a motor for my 86 notch. I have a 351w block and a 460 block at my disposal so sourcing one isn’t the problem. This car is going to be a drift car, I already have a tubed front end, coil overs, and the Holley efi system for the ford pushrod engines (302, 351w, and 460) so making either one work is the question. This motor will be living off the rev limiter and I’m wanting to make somewhere between 600-800hp preferably naturally aspirated if possible. Any insight or help would be much appreciated.
351 or 460 high RPM
- Thread starter goast1993
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So I would think you do not want a lot of weight over the nose so my vote would be a stroked 8.2 deck motor but if you a set on using what you have on hand then the 351W with aluminum heads, intake(s), and a much other light weight parts you can put on it.
Typically I’d be around 6-8k rpm for about a minute depending on what the engine can handle obviously. And a minute would be on the long side of a lap.
Yeah, it’s one of those deals where I have both just lying around. Not really looking to buy an expensive aftermarket block either. Would love to, but I’m not a rich boy lol
I guess my question should be more of which platform can I get power out of more reliably? And this build isn’t going to be done over night, I know there are ways to save weight on 460’s with aluminum heads, intake, etc. It would still be heavier than a stock iron heads, intake 351 but in the ballpark. I’m sorry if this is confusing, but finding information on the internet outside of drag cars, mud trucks, or dirt track cars has been challenging. I was hoping to find some people with experience with one or both motors to help me decide.
What's the budget?
Your goals are admirable, but since you aren't rich, i highly doubt 600rwhp and 8000rpm NA are attainable. You can certainly forget about 800hp.
My guess is that 450rwhp@6500rpm is a 10k build these days all motor and with a 351 based block and you still could very well come up short.
While i'm not all about coytote swaps, i bet it in this case it saves you money and gives more reliability.
Your goals are admirable, but since you aren't rich, i highly doubt 600rwhp and 8000rpm NA are attainable. You can certainly forget about 800hp.
My guess is that 450rwhp@6500rpm is a 10k build these days all motor and with a 351 based block and you still could very well come up short.
While i'm not all about coytote swaps, i bet it in this case it saves you money and gives more reliability.
That’s what I was worried about, was hoping to use a stock block and I know the builds can get pricey. And you might be right about the coyote swap, I know it’s a lot more “up front” cost, especially considering I’d have to source one. And boy I know those aren’t cheap either. As far as budget I’m not so sure, was hoping at the absolute maximum around 15k but this will definitely be a stretched out project. Not like I need it done by the end of this year even. Another reason why I was considering the 460, I know I can save some of the weight with the parts I install, stroke it a little, and get pretty good power out of it. But I don’t have enough real world experience with either to say yay or nay. Chances are, it would still be too heavy all said and done. I’m not sure.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Everything is more expensive with the 460. You can build 393 that can put out some decent power. You'd actually save money by selling the 351 and the 460 to buy a Dart block. Machining is machining. A turbo charged zero balanced Dart block can produce the power and handle it. It would also allow you to use a cam that has a lower lift profile than a NA radical camshaft. Either way it's going to cost some money. In your case, the Dart block turbo might get you where you want with a little more left on the table.
Maybe I should wait and save for an aftermarket block, was hoping not to because they are expensive. Let’s say I did a 393 build, how would you do it and get what I’m looking for?
- Mar 2, 2015
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The real issue is RPM. Windsor engines don't tend to like it. Any engine you build would have to be zero balanced at a machine shop. It would be best to go with a Ed Curtis or other custom grind with the camshaft. They would determine what rockers, springs, and push rods you need. You'd need the heads and intake flow numbers to match the RPM you're going for. RPM is brutal on push rod engines. Without precise clearances and finishes it could end up really bad. The oil pathways will also need modification. For prolonged higher RPMs about 6k you'll need to get the oil back to the pan as fast as possible. For the goal you want you'll need an aftermarket block, aluminum heads, and a power adder. There's no cheap way to make a 6- 800hp Windsor engine. The 460 can make good power NA but it takes parts, modifications, and everything to support it. Either way you're looking at a realistic total of atleast 30k+ to get where you want to be. The engine alone would be about half of that. You'll need a transmission, rear end, suspension, and braking stuff.
I have over 30k in my car and it's just a 331 with aluminum heads, intake, h beam rods, and everything internally upgraded. My engine doesn't make 500hp NA. I've got about 5k in the transmission and driveline. A few more in suspension stuff. Not even bringing up the cooling system, fuel system, and engine control.
I hate to say it but it would be cheaper to turbo a LS 5.3L and run that.
I have over 30k in my car and it's just a 331 with aluminum heads, intake, h beam rods, and everything internally upgraded. My engine doesn't make 500hp NA. I've got about 5k in the transmission and driveline. A few more in suspension stuff. Not even bringing up the cooling system, fuel system, and engine control.
I hate to say it but it would be cheaper to turbo a LS 5.3L and run that.
Oh yeah, no matter how I go about this there isn’t anything that will be cheap. The suspension is a given, I’ve already got about 6k in suspension and steering parts alone. Was hoping to stick with a pushrod ford just because they’re what I like and I just didn’t want to be another guy to a LS swap fox. Don’t get me wrong, if it ain’t broke. But that’s just not what I want to do with mine. I know building an engine and cheap don’t usually go together in the same breath. My brother built his LS for his mk3 Supra and is getting 750 crank NA on a 10k build and that was pre Covid/inflation prices so I know a build like that would probably be around 15k now unfortunately if not more. Guess I’ll have to save the moneys for either an aftermarket block or getting one machined at a shop. If I gotta drop that kind of money then I guess it won’t be all at once. Gonna have to stretch it out a little bit. I’m assuming 460’s don’t like the revs either without the same kind of work you said before?
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