90stang5speed Rear Mounted Turbo Project Thread

[Mustang5L5]

1/8" plate is not going to be enough..especially department store steel plate. If you are really going to pursue this design, you need more protection.

Someone brought up the fact that the impeller lines are directly in line with the drivers seat...which scares me.

I can't see this passing tech at a track.

 

[90stang5speed]

I will look into the track tech inspection in the near future. I might go to the track in about 2 weeks just to talk to the tech guys.

 

[Cobra912]

Honestly I don't see it passing tech period. If anyone has been to a NHRA or IHRA track you'll see how much stink they put up if you have a battery relocated to the trunk area of a hatch car in an approved box without a bulkhead. I think you'll need one serious shield.

I see you've upgraded to a cage and axles, don't try to fool anyone at the track because it's you who will suffer from a lack of safety equipment if that thing goes. No different than having a SFI bellhouing or tranny blanket. Just like a clutch exploding spewing liquid hot magma and frag through the floor pan at your legs.

 

[1991notchbackLX]

Glad to see you're listening to a guy with 9 posts and no sig or avatar, over an engineer who works with high tonnage industrial and commercial turbine technology on a daily basis, a design engineer, a former machinist, as well as othe guys on here who run low time slips and have been building these cars forever. Do whatever you want with your car, I've expressed my concerns. I'll read about it in the newspaper.

 

[hoopty5.0]

Glad to see you're listening to a guy with 9 posts and no sig or avatar, over an engineer who works with high tonnage industrial and commercial turbine technology on a daily basis, a design engineer, a former machinist, as well as othe guys on here who run low time slips and have been building these cars forever. Do whatever you want with your car, I've expressed my concerns. I'll read about it in the newspaper.

While I agree with your concerns 110%, you can't base any judgement on post count/sig/avatar.

I've been working on cars my whole life, but just joined the site a few months ago. Does that mean my posts are null and void?

 

[tat2d30688]

Honestly I don't see it passing tech period. If anyone has been to a NHRA or IHRA track you'll see how much stink they put up if you have a battery relocated to the trunk area of a hatch car in an approved box without a bulkhead. I think you'll need one serious shield.

I see you've upgraded to a cage and axles, don't try to fool anyone at the track because it's you who will suffer from a lack of safety equipment if that thing goes. No different than having a SFI bellhouing or tranny blanket. Just like a clutch exploding spewing liquid hot magma and frag through the floor pan at your legs.

Here is a link to the NHRA RULEBOOK--

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/sportcompact/2008_SC_Rulebook.pdf


Here is the IHRA RULEBOOK--

http://www.mydigitalpublication.com/publication?m=1203&l=1

 

[Mustang5L5]

Safety aside...I can't see this being very efficient. Especially with an intercooler mounted in the back seat. It almost needs to be done like the ford GT front radiator is plumbed with thenair inlets and exit being part of the cars body work. You are gonna need to move a lot of air past it.

I commend you on very excellent craftsmanship, but the practicality could be very much improved.

Still...curious to see the results.

 

[90stang5speed]

Thanks for the links to the rule books. I will be looking through them tonight. As for who I listen to on the forum, I don’t personally know anyone on here. What people do for a living or what kind of experience they have is their business. I can appreciate constructive criticism. I have no intention to try to full the tech guys as they have seen more “tricks” than I could possibly think up. The bat in the back was in full view at the tracks I have been to & no one ever said a word about it. There are safety rules & requirements for a reason. I can respect that & will comply obviously if I want to run at the track. I have no intention of making it into any magazines or wining any competitions in any class. It’s just for fun. To see how fast what I built can go in a ¼ mile is my only goal. There are many safety things that I still need to do. Brakes being a huge one, I have no doubt that the car will one day be fast. Stopping is something else. Seat belts are another one. On a positive note, I will be ordering the fan for the heat extractor tonight.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Phoenix City tech????
"Got a Helmet?" "Got seatbelts??" "Any holes in the floor"?
"You're GTG"

I was thinking Phoenix City was gonna be your track. This is the same track that runs alot of grude races for money. The players in that "class" wouldn't have a prayer of making NHRA tech either. Phoenix City is not an NHRA sanctioned track.

Take the advice of the guys that are giving you the safety tips, Always follow the rule that you can never be too safe, design/build what you can to insure that, and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[90stang5speed]

Thanks Mike. Phoenix City sounds like my home track back in KY. I have been reading the link given to the NHRA rules. There are a lot of safety features I will need. Seat belts, Bell Housing, Bat kill switch in the back, a REAL battery box for the rear mount bat. Not just a plastic autozone battery tray. The one that bothers me the most right now is, it said the roll cage must be free of slag, porosity, & grinding of the welds. Because I used my flux core MIG, I had spatter & ground it and the welds to “pretty” it up some. Looks like I might be screwed there. Also if the floor is altered, you are supposed to have a bar along the kick panel or something like that which of course I don’t have. I’ve got a lot to do before I’m ready for the street or track it seems. One thing I haven’t found yet is a rule against the turbo being in the car or the required shielding for it. I will keep looking.

 

[90stang5speed]

Here is a pis of the 8" fan that I ordered for the Heat Extractor.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Thanks Mike. Phoenix City sounds like my home track back in KY. I have been reading the link given to the NHRA rules. There are a lot of safety features I will need. Seat belts, Bell Housing, Bat kill switch in the back, a REAL battery box for the rear mount bat. Not just a plastic autozone battery tray. The one that bothers me the most right now is, it said the roll cage must be free of slag, porosity, & grinding of the welds. Because I used my flux core MIG, I had spatter & ground it and the welds to “pretty” it up some. Looks like I might be screwed there. Also if the floor is altered, you are supposed to have a bar along the kick panel or something like that which of course I don’t have. I’ve got a lot to do before I’m ready for the street or track it seems. One thing I haven’t found yet is a rule against the turbo being in the car or the required shielding for it. I will keep looking.

Other than the seat belts, G.T.G. Again this is phoenix City. They won't give a rats red ass that there is slag from the welds on the cage. Hell if you could duct tape the bars together, that might be good enough. (You just need to go there to sight see as planned to get a feel for what gets through their gates.)
Grinding on the welds to smooth them over has to have a weld redone on top to get it passed in NHRA. Phoenix City is NO HRA.

Bottom line here is even though I'm making light of the cage requirements required at P.C. If you don't feel good about the weld integrity I need to caution you that if they are full of inclusions, and are poorly peneterated, you might wanna think real hard about having somebody reweld them after you grind off the old. I've seen more than a few cars at tracks end up w/ breaks at the joint from a bad wreck. Be a real bad day if that were to be the case for you.

I had to do that on a couple of the welds on the orange and black car, but that cage had to certify to 7.50 in the quarter.
We only did that because I wasn't happy w/ the way the weld looked on a couple of bars that were hard to get to. I just didn't want to risk going all the way to Commerce and failing to cert. Believe me, a 7.50 cert doesn't come easy.

The bat kill switch, and metal bat box will also be "absent" on alot of the cars. As a matter of fact, there'll be cars there that don't even "have" a battery box.

Now don't get me wrong, an external kill switch mounted at the rear of the car is a very good thing, as is a positively mounted battery held by something a little more secure than the nylon strap currently holding the plastic box. ( unless you don't mind getting hit by a 60lb box full of sulfuric acid flopping around in the car should you wind up on your roof.

 

[90stang5speed]

Thanks again Mike. I think I got good penetration on the welds, they were just ugly welds. I need to upgrade to a good MIG with gas instead of the cheap harbor freight crappy one I have. Even if P.C. is pretty slack on their safety inspections, I still want to feel safe in the car. I still have a stock T5 & an AutoZone clutch. I’m not bashing Autozone as I used to work for them but, that clutch isn’t going to handle the power that I will be able to make. I honestly doubt that I will be able to do any tuning 3rd gear pulls without smoking it. I want to do a TKO 600 with a twin disc clutch & the SFI certified bell housing for my own safety. I’m more worried about the clutch exploding than the turbo. Like I said before, not saying it can’t but, I have only seen turbos on diesels & military equipment have turbine & compressor wheels come apart but, never have I seen them blow through the housing. The Bat box needs to be fixed for my safety as well. I’m sure it was hard for you to get a 7.5 certification. I just want to get into the 10’s. Maybe 9’s with a DART block. Thanks again for the tips.

 

[jrichker]

Some help in the battery kill switch/rear mounted battery...

For a battery cut off switch, see Moroso : Category Display
is the switch http://www.moroso.com/catalog/images/74102_inst.pdf is the installation instructions.
Use the super duty switch and the following tech note to wire it and you will
be good to go.

Use the Moroso plan for the alternator wiring and you risk a fire. The 10 gauge wire they recommend is even less adequate that the stock Mustang wiring.

There is a solution, but it will require about 40' of 18 gauge green wire.

Wire the battery to the two 1/2" posts as shown in the diagram.

The alternator requires a different approach. On the small alternator plug there is a green wire. It is the sense lead that turns the regulator on when the ignition switch is in the run position. Cut the green wire and solder the 40' of green wire between the two pieces. Use some heat shrink to cover the splices. See Ford Fuel Injection » How To Solder Like a Pro for some excellent help on soldering & using heat shrink tubing.

Run the green wire back to the Moroso switch and cut off the excess wire. Try to run the green wire inside the car and protect it from getting cut or chaffed. Crimp a 18 gauge ring terminal (red is 18 gauge color code for the crimp on terminals) on each wire. Bolt one ring terminal to each of the 3/16" studs. Do not add the jumper between the 1/2" stud and the 3/16" stud as shown it the
Moroso diagram.

How it works:
The green wire is the ignition on sense feed to the regulator. It supplies a turn on signal to the regulator when the ignition switch is in the Run position. Turn the Moroso switch to off, and the sense voltage goes away, the voltage regulator shuts off and the alternator quits making power.

The fuse & wiring in the following diagram are for a 3G alternator. The stock alternator uses a dark green fuse link wire that connects to 2 black/orange wires. Always leave them connected to the starter solenoid even if you have a 3G alternator.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring
Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg


Rear mounted battery ground wiring. Follow this plan and you will have zero
ground problems.

One 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from battery negative post to a clean shiny spot
on the chassis near the battery. Use a 5/16” bolt and bolt it down to make the
rear ground. Use a 1 gauge or 1/0 gauge wire from the rear ground bolt to a clean
shiny spot on the block.

One 4 gauge wire from the block where you connected the battery ground wire to
the chassis ground where the battery was mounted up front. Use a 5/16” bolt
and bolt down the 4 gauge engine to chassis ground, make sure that it the metal
around the bolt is clean & shiny. This is the alternator power ground.

The computer has a dedicated power ground wire with a cylindrical quick connect
(about 2 ½”long by 1” diameter. It comes out of the wiring harness near the
ignition coil & starter solenoid (or relay). Be sure to bolt it to the chassis ground
in the same place as you bolted the alternator power ground. This is an
absolute don’t overlook it item for EFI cars
Note: The quick disconnect may have fallen victim to damage or removal by
a previous owner. However, it is still of utmost importance that the black/green
wires have a high quality ground..

Picture courtesy timewarped1972

Crimp or even better, solder the lugs on the all the wire. The local auto stereo
shop will have them if the auto parts store doesn't. Use some heat shrink tubing
to cover the lugs and make things look nice.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I hereby nominate Jrichker for the 2011 techie award.

He has consistently provided "over the top" advice on just about every thread he replies to. Always w/ 8 x 10 glossy photos referenced by circles and arrows pointing out the area in question, so as not to confuse the area in question with another area in question he also provides technical "white paper" reviews, schematics, and or instructions.
Consistently disregarding the skin on his finger tips so that he may insure he broke down the steps to the repair/ install process in enough detail so that the average electro-ignoramous can adequately rectify the problem.

Jrichker please step forward and claim your prize

 

[90stang5speed]

I second that nomination. Jrichker is THE MAN when it comes to electronic advice. So here is a question or two for you. For the rear mount Bat & kill switch. I used double 0 gauge from the Bat - to bare metal of the body & the same gauge on the + side up to my custom fuse panel (which I need a second one) & then up to the starter solenoid. I upgraded the Alt wire coming from the 3G to the other side of the solenoid to 2 Ga wire. My question is. For the ground (which I haven’t upgraded yet) do I really need to run a second wire all the way from the back where the Bat ground is to the block or would a heavier ground from the block to the body up front be good enough? Also for the Kill switch, I have the green signal wire hooked to a resistor to a toggle powered by a fused power wire near the driver’s side of the dash. That way I can kill signal to the alt & rad fan at the track. I will wire the switch as in your directions using the small studs on the kill switch. My question is why can’t it be wired to the same big terminal as the bat? I’m sure you have a reason. I’m not questioning that, just wanting an explanation as to why please.

 

[Loftus]

Make sure to put a vac gauge on the intake side , even if temporary. If the turbo has to "work" to get air it will make more heat. I did one set up with a gauge off a Chev truck so we could see if it got restricted when the filters were dirty.
The scoops,methanol inj,intercooler should negate this , but check it anyways.

 

[Loftus]

The clutch may hold

Thanks again Mike. I think I got good penetration on the welds, they were just ugly welds. I need to upgrade to a good MIG with gas instead of the cheap harbor freight crappy one I have. Even if P.C. is pretty slack on their safety inspections, I still want to feel safe in the car. I still have a stock T5 & an AutoZone clutch. I’m not bashing Autozone as I used to work for them but, that clutch isn’t going to handle the power that I will be able to make. I honestly doubt that I will be able to do any tuning 3rd gear pulls without smoking it. I want to do a TKO 600 with a twin disc clutch & the SFI certified bell housing for my own safety. I’m more worried about the clutch exploding than the turbo. Like I said before, not saying it can’t but, I have only seen turbos on diesels & military equipment have turbine & compressor wheels come apart but, never have I seen them blow through the housing. The Bat box needs to be fixed for my safety as well. I’m sure it was hard for you to get a 7.5 certification. I just want to get into the 10’s. Maybe 9’s with a DART block. Thanks again for the tips.

Try the clutch you have.The rear mount applies the power verry smothly.
I built 680rwhp c6 vettes with stock clutches.
If you are talking 6000 clutch dumps, all bets are off.
Some slipage may be ok so you don't break things.
Blowers and front mounts with stage contols(popping/banging) are much more voilent launches. Sure sound neat and scare the neighbors too.

 

[90stang5speed]

I think I get what you are saying about the vac gauge. Put it after the filter but, before the intake of the turbo. Semi trucks have a filter gauge that shows you when your filter is getting clogged by pulling vacuum on it like that. I won’t be doing any 2 step launches for quite a while. I know the clutch won’t take that. As for rolling on to boost in a 3rd gear pull, there will only be one way to tell if the clutch will hold that. I would still like an explanation as to why you say try putting smaller rockers on the exhaust side.

 

[1bad67sbf]

I would still like an explanation as to why you say try putting smaller rockers on the exhaust side.

+1, i would think that would cork the motor and cause more turbo lag. unless it would increase velocity??