95 GT, help after Vortech install..

Apr 7, 2017
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#1
Ok so.. 331 stroker.. AFR 185's, RPM, 42's, etc. etc..

Put it all together.. got car running rough, but ok.. timing was still advanced a bit (no marks on balancer, doing it by feel for now), and after moving PCV from back of lower intake to valve cover, the car won't run.. at all.

I put on a tester to pull codes.. got em.. all looked ok.. pulled tester.. and then from that moment on, the car REFUSES to idle or run worth a :poo:, I can't even get it out of the garage.

Have swapped plugs multiple times.. car is rich, etc.. Have a tune/chip/quarterhorse.. pulled codes 542/563 AFTER swapping to a new CCRM.. now i'm worried I Fried the pcm..

I literally just built this thing.. all parts are new.. wtf??

Could maybe the CCRM going bad, have done something to the computer, too?

Not much i've found online about a ccrm causing a pcm to fry after a test...
 
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jozsefsz

5 Year Member
Aug 11, 2013
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Cleveland OH Area
#2
542 tells me you might not be getting fuel because you may have gotten an incorrect CCRM. 563 can also be caused by the wrong CCRM, it's a completely unrelated fan relay code. Of course it's in the CCRM too.

Swap the original CCRM back on there and start from there. Not likely the wrong (or bad) CCRM killed the PCM, but not impossible, but more likely you have the wrong one on there now. They're all largely the same and bolt up just fine, but the pin-outs on the wiring harness are different.

A million variables from my viewpoint, I'd start with the basics - put the original CCRM back on and then verify you have fuel (check pressure) & spark.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#3
There is tons of fuel.. so much so i've been trying to trim it down so as to not foul the plugs at idle..

It's running a 255 in tank along with 42 lb inj. and 1/2" CHP fuel rails.. not a shortage there.

THe CCRM came off my 95 cobra, and was installed on this 95 gt.. should be the same damn thing from my reading.. maybe not?
 

jozsefsz

5 Year Member
Aug 11, 2013
997
182
74
48
Cleveland OH Area
#4
That's a really good question - does it have the same part number as the original? It has to be pretty exact, and Ford did so much nonsense with CCRM's over the years I'm surprised they aren't different even with the same part number.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#5
From what I gather online, they are the "same" from a cobra to a gt in 95. But now I can't get it to run, at all.. it refuses to idle.. is fouling plugs wet, and well.. just refuses to run.

Everything is :leghump:ing new. I mean everything. Anyone wanna buy a built vortech vert with 19" rims and style bar/etc?

What a joke.
 

jozsefsz

5 Year Member
Aug 11, 2013
997
182
74
48
Cleveland OH Area
#6
Don't give up brother, just take a break. You'll have a killer ride when all is said & done. You've got fuel and then some, let us know how the spark is looking.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#7
Don't give up brother, just take a break. You'll have a killer ride when all is said & done. You've got fuel and then some, let us know how the spark is looking.
Can't take a break, it's been 6 weeks straight of yanking motor, heads, lifters, replacing it all, etc.. my only car and i NEED IT RUNNING.

IT SHOULD RUN.. it starts, then dies. Spark, fuel, all good. I AM SO :leghump:ING PISSED OFF.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#8
The craziest part.. when we had just gotten it together, before we started to button up the exhaust and all.. we popped it off late one night.. just to see.. and DAMN.. it sounded GREAT.. the next morning we bolted up the mufflers, and it ran like hell.

SInce then, literally we haven't been able to get it to run right.. we almost had it the other day, timing a bit too far advanced, but after backing it off, getting it home, finally feeling it was on point...

We pulled the intake plate off the RPM, there was a TON of oil up there.. so we relocated the PCV to the drivers side VC, and plugged the lower intake one.. so far, now, we can't get the car to idle or run.. only other change was going to a set of colder plugs.. autolite 3923's.. from 3924's...

UGh.
 

96pushrod

Active Member
May 15, 2018
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#9
I did a 347 in my sn and is really didn’t run right until it was tuned.

Why don’t you have timing marks on your balancer? Doing it by feel isn’t really the way to go imo. You have the spout out when timing right? I figure you do, just checking. I had to rev mine during initial timing just go get it to run long enough to correctly set timing.

What are you using to tune? You should need to tune a lot of fuel out of idle, like 30%+

Is the car surging? I’m guessing the idle is all over the place.
 
Dec 3, 2018
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#10
What is your fuel pressure set at with the vacuum line unplugged? Did you recalibrate the TPS, or have you checked the voltage going to the tps? Just asking, it may have got bumped or something during the install and need to be reset. With those thing even the slightest bump or movement can change the voltage and throw the idle off. You will definitely need a tune for it to idle correct with no surge when you get it running though. I’m fixing to install a complete FAST ECU in my 94 cobra because it idle’s pig rich and the idle surge is about to drive me carzy.
 

jozsefsz

5 Year Member
Aug 11, 2013
997
182
74
48
Cleveland OH Area
#12
With fuel, spark, and compression, you'd be running, so something is missing or significantly off. Colder plugs on a very rich condition could cause a no-start. Especially coupled with retarded timing. The PCV on our cars is a closed system - it can't vent anywhere or you'll have a large vacuum leak. Try completely plugging the PCV hose. Those are my initial thoughts.

It could be any number of things - I'd suggest systematically eliminating them if it's nothing obvious.

These are some better links found on this site:
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-checklist-for-fuel-injected-mustangs.787471/
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#13
Still can't get it to work. Look, it's not the :leghump:ing TPS, or IAC, or any of that bull:poo:. This is my 11th :leghump:ing 5.0, and no it didn't "get knocked around" during the install. THe car ran perfectly fine n/a, and soon as I put the s trim and all my stuff back on, it did this.. now it won't run.. AT ALL.. diff computers, diff chips, diff tunes, 3 new PIP sensors, 2 diff dizzys, timing, NOTHING WORKS. It literally doesn't matter where I put the goddamn distributor, it won't run or idle. I've had it.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#14
I did a 347 in my sn and is really didn’t run right until it was tuned.

Why don’t you have timing marks on your balancer? Doing it by feel isn’t really the way to go imo. You have the spout out when timing right? I figure you do, just checking. I had to rev mine during initial timing just go get it to run long enough to correctly set timing.

What are you using to tune? You should need to tune a lot of fuel out of idle, like 30%+

Is the car surging? I’m guessing the idle is all over the place.
There are no marks on the balancer bc the previous owner was a hack and the sticker or whatever came off. I marked TDC and 10* is only a short distance away, maybe 1/4" or so. It should be perfectly acceptable to get it close enough to idle and run, then to adjust from there.. this is old school but it's not like i'm trying to stab in the dark between something we don't know about.. even if the car wasn't spot on, IT SHOULD :leghump:ING IDLE AND RUN.

Yes the spout is out, yes the car is surging, and yes it's all over, except it wont' idle at all. It acts like a major vac leak.. there aren't any.

I have a quarterhorse on it, and I have about 7/8 tunes here, all with 5% fuel trimmed off.. none of them seem to work, as the car just plain runs like :poo:.
 
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Apr 7, 2017
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#15
With fuel, spark, and compression, you'd be running, so something is missing or significantly off. Colder plugs on a very rich condition could cause a no-start. Especially coupled with retarded timing. The PCV on our cars is a closed system - it can't vent anywhere or you'll have a large vacuum leak. Try completely plugging the PCV hose. Those are my initial thoughts.

It could be any number of things - I'd suggest systematically eliminating them if it's nothing obvious.

These are some better links found on this site:
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/help-me-create-the-surging-idle-checklist.698148/
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-checklist-for-fuel-injected-mustangs.787471/
I moved my PCV from the back of the lower intake to my driver side valve cover, plugged rear hole and was done with it.

I have spark, fuel, and compression, and it's not running. I have new autolite 3923 plugs, a step colder, gapped at .035.
 

96pushrod

Active Member
May 15, 2018
265
136
53
26
Savannah
#16
There are no marks on the balancer bc the previous owner was a hack and the sticker or whatever came off. I marked TDC and 10* is only a short distance away, maybe 1/4" or so. It should be perfectly acceptable to get it close enough to idle and run, then to adjust from there.. this is old school but it's not like i'm trying to stab in the dark between something we don't know about.. even if the car wasn't spot on, IT SHOULD :leghump:ING IDLE AND RUN.

Yes the spout is out, yes the car is surging, and yes it's all over, except it wont' idle at all. It acts like a major vac leak.. there aren't any.

I have a quarterhorse on it, and I have about 7/8 tunes here, all with 5% fuel trimmed off.. none of them seem to work, as the car just plain runs like :poo:.
With 42lb injectors I needed to trim out a good bit more than 5% at idle. Which injectors are you running? I could send you my base tune and see if it works out, assuming you’re running a t4m0 computer.

Even before my car was tuned it idled - Somewhat at least, I was definitely surprised.

Did you say you run a wideband? I didn’t notice if you said you did.
 

96pushrod

Active Member
May 15, 2018
265
136
53
26
Savannah
#17
With 42lb injectors I needed to trim out a good bit more than 5% at idle. Which injectors are you running? I could send you my base tune and see if it works out, assuming you’re running a t4m0 computer.

Even before my car was tuned it idled - Somewhat at least, I was definitely surprised. I did have to rev up the engine a bit to keep it running initially, with the spout out, to get base timing set.

Did you say you run a wideband? I didn’t notice if you said you did.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#18
With 42lb injectors I needed to trim out a good bit more than 5% at idle. Which injectors are you running? I could send you my base tune and see if it works out, assuming you’re running a t4m0 computer.

Even before my car was tuned it idled - Somewhat at least, I was definitely surprised.

Did you say you run a wideband? I didn’t notice if you said you did.
I have a base tune, and then 7 after it, each of which pull 5% more out.. so I have them with like 30% less..

I am running a j4j1 out of my 95 cobra. I had it tuned and it ran GREAT.. idled rock solid at 950.. just where I wanted it.. took to store in rain.. got air filter wet.. came home.. dried it out, yanked it.. found lil oil in MAF.. cleaned it, put all back together, now it won't run right.

I have a t4m0 sitting here.. debating swapping, but it shouldn't matter. I have a wideband yes.

According to my tuner, the j4j1 and t4m0 are interchangable.. so I don't see why not? I could always take your tune and mail it to him, and let him look it over.. see what he thinks? Assuming we don't have the same guy lol. Willie from Dirty Racing out in Virginia.. i'm in Cali. Dynos here are like relics.. cali hates these cars.
 

96pushrod

Active Member
May 15, 2018
265
136
53
26
Savannah
#19
I have a base tune, and then 7 after it, each of which pull 5% more out.. so I have them with like 30% less..

I am running a j4j1 out of my 95 cobra. I had it tuned and it ran GREAT.. idled rock solid at 950.. just where I wanted it.. took to store in rain.. got air filter wet.. came home.. dried it out, yanked it.. found lil oil in MAF.. cleaned it, put all back together, now it won't run right.

I have a t4m0 sitting here.. debating swapping, but it shouldn't matter. I have a wideband yes.

According to my tuner, the j4j1 and t4m0 are interchangable.. so I don't see why not? I could always take your tune and mail it to him, and let him look it over.. see what he thinks? Assuming we don't have the same guy lol. Willie from Dirty Racing out in Virginia.. i'm in Cali. Dynos here are like relics.. cali hates these cars.
Ah gotcha, yeah 30% sounds about where it should be.

Where are tps and maf voltages at? Injector brand as well? You may need to alter lag time if they’re diffeeent than mine.

Yes the cobra and t4m0 are interchangeable. I’d swap in the t4m0 and you can try out my tune. I didn’t go thru willie, had another tuner get my base setup.

If you want to shoot me your email, I could mail it to you.
 
Apr 7, 2017
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#20
Ah gotcha, yeah 30% sounds about where it should be.

Where are tps and maf voltages at? Injector brand as well? You may need to alter lag time if they’re diffeeent than mine.

Yes the cobra and t4m0 are interchangeable. I’d swap in the t4m0 and you can try out my tune. I didn’t go thru willie, had another tuner get my base setup.

If you want to shoot me your email, I could mail it to you.
Oddly enough, when tuning my last car, my 95 cobra, it took 6 tunes.. 7? to get it right.. he refused to keep pulling fuel, but I insisted, and I was right lol.

I'd hate to think my PCM is bad.. it shouldn't be.. I have a quarterhorse on here as well.. and everything seeeeems to work..

I'd be real curious where your tune is. My injectors are 42's, they are green and slightly "slimmer" than FMS ones, if that makes sense.. bosch? Perhaps.. couldn't tell you exactly as I got them off ebay, but they weren't cheap.. I could go back and look at my details from purchase.. but they wer like $250, so i'm thinkin' not china..

TPS is good. MAF, again, is what I think is wrong. Doesn't show anything, no codes, but damn it acts like it.. I haven't checked voltages yet, i'm not good with electronics.. this is mustang #11.. all 5.0's, and i'd like to think there is enough of a learning curve/experience curve/etc. to know what's wrong.. thus far no issues.. it can only be one of two things... it's this.. or something else... haha.
 

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