hey alll i realize this is non mustang related but somone got wasted and slammed into my daily driver (90 cadillac fleetwoood) totaling it looking for new daily driver have about 2500 to play with have been looking at alot of late 80's early 90's firebird formula's some being 350 t.p.i cars.. anyone know anything or have anything to say about these cars.. i dont no much about them xept i think they are really cool looking cars .... pretty fast? i drove one that needed an exhaust.. looked online and noticed it wasnt so easy to get replacement offroad pipe... aftermarkey parts dont seem to be as easy to find/cheap as our foxbody's...
anyone know anything about 305/350 tpi firebirds?
- Thread starter billbraskey
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Dollar-for-dollar, Third-Generation F-Bodies can't stack up against Foxes when it comes to stock form OR in modded form. Sure, the L98 TPI 350 was rated at something like 240 horses in the later models ('89+ when they went to dual cats, IIRC), but they also weigh a lot more and the vast majority of them are 700R4 automatics, which suck a lot of the go-power fun. Sure, the T-5 was available for them, but they were fragile at best in those things and any kind of serious mods added on there would kill them in a jiffy.
I'll admit, I love the looks of a clean thirdgen Firebird (not so much the Camaro - too Joe Dirty for me), but I HATED working on all of the ones I've owned in the past. And yeah, I always felt that they cornered better, but they ride like absolute CRAP (especially the WS6 Package Firebirds, which was basically any Formula or Trans Am model). The seating position is weird, with your legs pretty much being straight out, and the thing is so darned low that entering/exiting means literally falling into the driver's seat and climbing out of the darned thing.
Additionally - and this is just my rotten luck, really - they have been accident magnets. EVERY SINGLE ONE of my three accidents that I've experienced in my life as a driver has been when I've been behind the wheel of a thirdgen Firebird (all three were the other drivers' fault, all three idiots got tickets). I dunno if people just can't see them because they're so low, or if it's just some kind of voodoo curse with me, or what. I've owned three '87 model Firebirds (two V6's and one 4bbl 305 Formula) and one '91 350 TPI Trans Am - all very beautiful but otherwise pointless cars that had weird mechanical quirks that I could never figure out, all got HORRIBLE gas mileage (even the 2.8L V6's), had the worst-sounding stereo setups ever, never had room to carry anything, and ... well, anyway, I don't really miss them at all.
Oh, and didja' ever notice the difference in the number of pages for aftermarket parts on the TPI/LT1/LS1 section of any Jeg's or Summit Racing catalog, versus the Mustang-specific section? The F-Body stuff gets maybe four pages; the Mustang stuff is at least three times as huge, and everything is way cheaper. You can only do so much with an F-body exhaust, especially everything from '82 on up; true duals are a royal pain to fabricate, so you're usually stuck with the whole Y-pipe gig, and generally even a full-exhaust 350 sounds like a sick lion gargling Listerine. Sure, there's a buttload of stuff available for 350 motors, but that mostly applies to cars like old Novas and Chevelles and such where you've got more engine bay and undercarriage room to work with, and you're still dealing with a car that's bigger, heavier, and less comfy than any Fox, and any built motor in a thirdgen is almost guaranteed to be limited to an automatic tranny setup ... yawwwwwn.
Trust me, I've been through a total of five F-bodies (including an '81 Camaro Z/28) and two Fox notches, and I'll gladly take a beat-up Fox over a pristine thirdgen F-body anyday - not for the sake of loyalty or sentiment, but just plain mechanical practicality. Plus, I like being able to actually get more than 17 MPG on the highway, and have some cargo room to stow more than just a case of beer.
FWIW, there's a fairly nice-looking maroon '89 Trans Am with T-tops and 16" gold GTA-style rims on the corner of Delaware and Superstition down the street from me for $1500.
Dollar-for-dollar, Third-Generation F-Bodies can't stack up against Foxes when it comes to stock form OR in modded form. Sure, the L98 TPI 350 was rated at something like 240 horses in the later models ('89+ when they went to dual cats, IIRC), but they also weigh a lot more and the vast majority of them are 700R4 automatics, which suck a lot of the go-power fun. Sure, the T-5 was available for them, but they were fragile at best in those things and any kind of serious mods added on there would kill them in a jiffy.
I'll admit, I love the looks of a clean thirdgen Firebird (not so much the Camaro - too Joe Dirty for me), but I HATED working on all of the ones I've owned in the past. And yeah, I always felt that they cornered better, but they ride like absolute CRAP (especially the WS6 Package Firebirds, which was basically any Formula or Trans Am model). The seating position is weird, with your legs pretty much being straight out, and the thing is so darned low that entering/exiting means literally falling into the driver's seat and climbing out of the darned thing.
Additionally - and this is just my rotten luck, really - they have been accident magnets. EVERY SINGLE ONE of my three accidents that I've experienced in my life as a driver has been when I've been behind the wheel of a thirdgen Firebird (all three were the other drivers' fault, all three idiots got tickets). I dunno if people just can't see them because they're so low, or if it's just some kind of voodoo curse with me, or what. I've owned three '87 model Firebirds (two V6's and one 4bbl 305 Formula) and one '91 350 TPI Trans Am - all very beautiful but otherwise pointless cars that had weird mechanical quirks that I could never figure out, all got HORRIBLE gas mileage (even the 2.8L V6's), had the worst-sounding stereo setups ever, never had room to carry anything, and ... well, anyway, I don't really miss them at all.
Oh, and didja' ever notice the difference in the number of pages for aftermarket parts on the TPI/LT1/LS1 section of any Jeg's or Summit Racing catalog, versus the Mustang-specific section? The F-Body stuff gets maybe four pages; the Mustang stuff is at least three times as huge, and everything is way cheaper. You can only do so much with an F-body exhaust, especially everything from '82 on up; true duals are a royal pain to fabricate, so you're usually stuck with the whole Y-pipe gig, and generally even a full-exhaust 350 sounds like a sick lion gargling Listerine. Sure, there's a buttload of stuff available for 350 motors, but that mostly applies to cars like old Novas and Chevelles and such where you've got more engine bay and undercarriage room to work with, and you're still dealing with a car that's bigger, heavier, and less comfy than any Fox, and any built motor in a thirdgen is almost guaranteed to be limited to an automatic tranny setup ... yawwwwwn.
Trust me, I've been through a total of five F-bodies (including an '81 Camaro Z/28) and two Fox notches, and I'll gladly take a beat-up Fox over a pristine thirdgen F-body anyday - not for the sake of loyalty or sentiment, but just plain mechanical practicality. Plus, I like being able to actually get more than 17 MPG on the highway, and have some cargo room to stow more than just a case of beer.
FWIW, there's a fairly nice-looking maroon '89 Trans Am with T-tops and 16" gold GTA-style rims on the corner of Delaware and Superstition down the street from me for $1500.
cenok is family
15 Year Member
305's are anchor weights. my bro had seriously the best lookin 84 t/a i've ever seen. bright red with the half cowl thingy they came with that had a little black firebird on it. anyways, it was a 5 speed 305 with a cam, edelbrock intake and carb, full exhaust with stock a$$ manifolds because it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to fit longtubes in there, and 3.73's and he ran 16.xx. he wasn't a bad driver either.
blackened88lx
Active Member
Seeing how I am not biased either way, I will try and feed you some truth. The newer ones, about 89-92 are pretty quick. Somewhere around there they were upped to 245 horse like Darkwriter stated, and I want to say 330 ft-lbs. With a 5 spd they would be right with if not beat a similarly modded fox. They're a little heavier than a fox, and harder to work on. A plus is that parts for a sbc are cheap and it's easy to make big power. Also like Darkwriter said, the t5's are junk, just like a fox. A 700r4 is junk in stock form but they have a great 1st gear, and they are awesome tranny's when mildly built with a good converter. My personal opinion, and what keeps me away from them, is the terrible interiors, and the cars are just plain ugly. As for people saying they're slower than foxes, my buddy had an '87?? with a few bolt ons, a 700r4 with a mild converter, and I believe it had gears, and it ran 13.3 IIRC.
Mr. Rustypwnz
Advanced Member
basically, any built up 5.0(i mean h/c/i gears) can take a bolt on,.......... hell any camaro, or firebird, less of an slp, or ss. Ive beat a couple of em no prob with my 86. I think that I might get a firebird one of these days, ws6 ls1. But keep with the mustang route, they are built much better, can handle much more abuse!!
blackened88lx
Active Member
Yes, a tranny that can't handle the stock motor, and a block that splits in half over 450rwhp can handle much more abuse than an ls1 and t56
Just try working on Camero or Firebird. Man what a headache! They are heavier than the Mustang, (mostly) and there is a very good reason that Ford sold 2 Mustangs for every Camero and Firebird sold! And that is why they are not made anymore. Even when they were cheaper and faster in stock form, Ford still outsold the Camero & Firebird cars 2 to 1. That in of itself speaks VOLUMES!
%#$@
I have owned two Grand Turismo Americano's ( GTA ) and they both drained my friggen wallet. If your going to buy one your going to require a mullet to complete the look. I was saved from the darkside and am on my 3rd mustang. Buy a notch save your mullet money!
I have owned two Grand Turismo Americano's ( GTA ) and they both drained my friggen wallet. If your going to buy one your going to require a mullet to complete the look. I was saved from the darkside and am on my 3rd mustang. Buy a notch save your mullet money!
this is an absolute ignorant statement. up until 3 yrs ago i was a die hard Trans Am guy. ive had everything from a 74 Trans Am to my last 88 Formula. with the 88 being the only 3rd gen I ever owned ill say this. i had no problem making most 5.0 owners I ran into think twice about messing with my "POS Firebird". as for reliability i owned the car for 7 yrs and the only failure i ever had was the alternator. the 700r4 had nothing but a B&M shift kit slapped in it, an aussie 9 bolt w/3.4X gears, headers, and catback. i lowered car with Intrax springs, so yeah it road like a brick, but damn with the rest of the suspension mods it would corner like a beast. as to build quality my 88 formula vs my 87 gt the formula had less rattles, squeaks, and actually felt like a solid car not a piece of tin foil wrapped over a unibody. face it die hards side by side 80's build quality is cheap at best on either model. now to fun factor... well id say its a 50/50 split. if i was going to drive the twisty mountain roads all day with my foot in the gas id take the formula, if i just want to play around in town give me my GT, and i only say that because of the T5. the hardest thing about buying a 3rd gen is finding a nice example that the current owner doesnt thinks is valuable piece of automotive history. also dont buy anything before 89. 89-92 are the best examples. id suggest a formula 350 car. and dont let anyone lie to you and tell you its a factory 5 spd 350 car. gm never made one. the t5 was a joke and they knew it wouldnt survive. id say avoid Ttops but they made so damn many like that it might be impossible. they will leak, but not always not to mention the seals arent cheap for them. places to check on one. the strut tower tops are made in two pieces. the wheel well is one solid piece with "cap" on top of it. if the car is from a northern state it WILL eat through that cap and destroy the tower. also check the underside of the hatch they will rust. the wrap around spoilers (86-91) will crack, split, and generally fall apart no matter what you do. the 91-92 spoilers on the Trans Ams/Formulas will not. a new spoiler for an older one from gm is pricey. the headlight motors like to stop working in them, but its not the motor its the dowels inside of the gear that decay. they can be swapped out easily and bought cheap so its no biggie. just make sure the motor actually works first. they also suffer from the same "idiots dont know where to jack their car up at" problem most fox body mustangs do. drivers side fender.. hehe. sub frame connectors are worth their weight in gold on them also. i dont understand why ppl say theyre hard to work on. its a larger engine compartment with decent room. no worse are better imo than a fox. the 4th gens however will make you cuss a lot. as for them being heavy my formula weighed in at a whopping 3,160lbs with my added sub box, and my fat ass in it.
Just try working on Camero or Firebird. Man what a headache! They are heavier than the Mustang, (mostly) and there is a very good reason that Ford sold 2 Mustangs for every Camero and Firebird sold! And that is why they are not made anymore. Even when they were cheaper and faster in stock form, Ford still outsold the Camero & Firebird cars 2 to 1. That in of itself speaks VOLUMES!
its CamAro, and how many of those new fangled mustangs were 4 cyl cars? A LOT. we didnt call them chick cars for no reason back then... LOL
Strippt88
New Member
Of course, the past owners of said cars wiil tell you how they used to beat up Mustangs, but you didn't see many F-bodies racing in Chicago in the 86 to 93 era, when I had my first 5.0. Not racing for money, anyway. I can tell you that in the aforementioned era, friends had both, one an 87 IROC, first 350 on our block, another had the 89 Formula, a 305TPI 5-speed. Nice power from either, the Formula, well, his dad worked for GM, coached him how to put together an order sheet. He had all the 1LE options, and I can say that I beat up a GT with it, fairly easily, too. That car could launch, big-ass tires. It felt lighter than the IROC, maybe the 5-speed? We tweaked the IROC to a best 13.23 on the ZR's, never timed the Formula. Interior was terrible uncomfortable in both, can't hang your arm out the window, like that. Nothing was easy to reach, but I'm 5' 6 on a good day. Dash is about a mile long, don't try cleaning the inside windshield. Ride, well, an M1 Abrahms is better, do not carry an open container of anything you don't want dispersed throughout. Stupid things would break on them, wierd stuff. I remember the IROC spinning cam bearings/rounding the cam at 40K, the hatch supports on both were gone in 2 years, needed new ones, IROC's radio died(?) had to be sent out, and both had stress cracks where the quarter meets the roof, behind the door window. As a 20 year old DD? Up to you, surely wouldn't be my first choice, gotta Corolla myself that never breaks, doesn't make the president richer and I don't care where I park, for $1200. The F-body is better suited to the role of toy, like my LX.
68stang351
Founding Member
joeyd0730
Member
25thmustang
Mustang Master
A 350 TPI would be about as fast as a well driven 5.0 with a 5-speed. A 305 TPI with a 5-speed would be about as fast as an average driven 5.0 with a 5-speed. Neither car is considered slow compared to stock Mustangs...
Slow95gt, I might be mistaken but I vaguely remember reading about you running mid 13s @ 106 mph in your car? Thats no faster than a stock LS1, and a few bolt ons on a 350 TPI will run that, just to let you know.
Slow95gt, I might be mistaken but I vaguely remember reading about you running mid 13s @ 106 mph in your car? Thats no faster than a stock LS1, and a few bolt ons on a 350 TPI will run that, just to let you know.
alriiiiiight goood post guys..still not sure what im gong to do gonna drive a couple i think...the one i already drove and may pick up for like 1300 is a black 90 formula 350 pti with a shift kit only thing is exhaust is rattling kinda loud in the cats area.... not sure soundes like maybe the cat is busted up inside? not really sure i wanna see it again and how hard it would be to cut them out at home..
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