Discussion in '2010 - 2014 Specific Tech' started by oh9mustang, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. I sure do wish Ford would make a cobra again.
    For those that like the Shelby GT 500, I say , good for you, and those that like Verts, I say good for you.
    That being said, Shelby is an old fart that talked SVT into putting his name on a line of cars. Good for him , I guess. They are over priced and not very fast for what they have in them. The handling is not so good , as the Roush will drive right around a Shelby on a road course track.
    Except for the Shelby GT 350R, The old Shelby's are just GTs with AC and some badges, To his credit those old Shelby's are worth 20 to 30 times what they coast new. But that don't make them good, it just makes them a good investment. I would guess the new Shelby's are going to increase in price also, but again, that don't make them good, just a good investment.
    I just don't like the look of a Shelby, I don't like strips, I like 4 headlights. To those that like the Shelby, you have to realize that not everyone likes the car, and that don't mean you shouldn't.
    If Ford would make a Cobra, I would get one, no strips, fast and handle. With a Snake and COBRA on the back bumper.

    Just an opinion
  2. Now this looks good
  3. Aren't you about 2-years too late with this rant? :shrug:
  4. No, Not late and not a "Rant" just an opinion. Do you claim that those that praise the Shelby are having a Rant? Or maybe their opinion is what you think correct and so therefor is ok?

    No Rant
  5. Alright're about 2-years late with your "opinion". :rolleyes:

    The Shelby has been out for a couple of years now you realize? You are also aware that the Shelby GT500 still outperforms the '03-'04 Cobra strait out of the box, you can hardly call it a disappointment? :shrug:

    The only disappointing part IMO is the limited production of them and the added price tag....but hey, that's inflation and the price you pay for a better car.

    Even if you don't like the Shelby, no Cobra "return" is going to be anything like the one you remember. It'll be a high performance version of the S197 platform, which IMO we alread have more than enough of now.
  6. First, I have said this about Shelby since 1965 with the Mustang anyway. The AC Cobra was one mean machine. I just have not said it here.
    And I didn't say anything about being disappointed, what I said was "They are over priced and not very fast for what they have in them"
    My GT coast $26,000. a Shelby is $40,000. If I was to put $14,000 in my car, it would smoke any Shelby out there in any king of race.
    And yes 500 hP beats 390 hp most of the time, The 03-04 Cobra is around $8,000 less that the Shelby, so in order to be fair you must put the $8.000 in the Cobra, and when that happens the Shelby see's the Cobras tail lights.
    You can not see the future no more than I "no Cobra "return" is going to be anything like the one you remember" And why would you think that? SVT is the one that made the Shelby, all they would have to do is put a better suspension, get rid of those strips and all the Shelby names and add COBRA to the rear bumper and Title. Oh Yea, and sell it for $5,000 less than the Shelby.
  7. You're not getting it. Its not a matter of taking the cost of the two cars, subtracting the difference and then sinking it into the engine of your GT. The Shelby, like the Cobra before it is much more than just a Mustang GT with a big engine. Yes, its true you're paying a little bit of a premium for having the "Shelby" name sake, but when you consider what else has been sunk into the car its a real bargain. Hell, the Forged Eaton M122 blown 5.4L DOHC engine makes up for the $14,000 price difference alone! Add to that the bulletproof 6-speed TR6060 and 31-spline rear end, Brembo 14" cross drilled 4-piston brakes up front, with 13" versions of the same out back, specially tuned suspension complete with 3-link solid axle design, performance tuned shocks, stabilizers, springs and panhard rod, with big beefy 19" wheels and tires, high end interior trim with much nicer and more functional seats complete with Shelby accents and topped off with probably the nicest looking exterior enhancement package to come on any S197 to date and you'll see you're getting a lot more than just a little more power for your money.

    ...and that's not something you could duplicate with aftermarket parts for the same amount of money, no matter how hard you try!!!

    The same holds true when you compare it to a Cobra. Yes, the previous Cobra was a hell of a deal for the money, but again you're spending a little more on the exclusivity of the Shelby namesake and you're again saddled with a better car in the end. Not to mention the S197 chassis is light years ahead of the old SN95 design as far as stiffness, design and ergonomics.

    And I don't need to see the future to tell you for certain the Cobra will never make an appearance in the form you remember it. For starters, Ford will never produce another SN95 right off the bat you know it's going to look like some sort of version of the S197.

    And I'm not sure what you're referring to by "put in a better suspension". You do realize the new Shelby out handles the previous Cobra right off the showroom floor, right? Even with the added weight.

    The stripes are an option, so you're not "stuck with them" by any means.

    Also swapping out the name Shelby, for Cobra at this point just to save $5,000 is going to cost them more money than they'll make just in marketing. Not to mention one could never justify a $5,000 price drop by simply removing stripes and changing some badging....especially if you expect them to install an IRS rear suspension out back like the previous Cobra. If anything, it would drive the price up!

    Look, I can understand if you’ve got a distaste for the car from a personal preference standpoint, but nothing you’ve suggested this far is going to bring the price tag down, or build a superior car for less money by comparison. At least not in 2009. Trust me....guys were presenting this same arguement back in 2003 when the Cobra debut and the performance and value for your dollar couldn't be improved back then either. You want a cheaper Mustang, build it yourself like you said you wanted to out of a GT. Otherwise, either learn to like the Shelby, or look into one of the other offerings from Roush or Saleen.

    Either way, the GT500 is still one hell of a car that acts, performs and looks every bit as good that it was intended to. :nice:
  8. i agree with the thread starter. the shelby is cool but i'd prefer a smaller engine if it would save dang near 400lbs.
  9. You'd need to swap a lot more than just the current engine to yank 500lbs. All the other parts above I listed are what attributed to the weight. If you want to strip those, you might as well just stick with a GT? :shrug:
  10. care to explain why the gt weighs 3550ish and the shelby is 3900ish (AKA dang near 400lbs)?

    i'd rather have a saleen over a shelby, anyhow.
  11. Sure...first off the 5.4L DOHC engine is a heavier beast than the run of the mill 4.6L 3V. The Shelby has an iron block and forged components for strength, where the 3V does not. Secondly, the DOHC heads are significantly larger and weigh a lot more than the 3V castings.. There's probably a good 60-70lbs difference between the two engines in full dress trim. Third, the Shelby has a blower, intercooler, heat exchanger, brackets and a secondary coolant reservoir full of coolant that probably weigh close to 100-125lbs on their own. Finally, the Shelby has bigger and beefier (and as a result heavier) brakes, suspension, wheels, transmission.

    Sure, you can strip it all away, but in the end you're left with....yep, you guessed it...a regular old run of the mill GT. So...its your choice...strip it off and save the weight, or keep it on and retain the performance! :shrug:

    The Supercharged 3V Saleen weighs a little less than the Shelby at a little over 3,620lbs, but is about 50hp down on power in comparison and it doesn't have near the power potential of the 5.4L DOHC in the GT500 when modified. Oh and its about $10,000 more money too. :D
  12. you call 300lbs a little weight?

    if ford really wanted to do something killer they'd build a 500hp 32 valve 4.6 or 5.0.
  13. In terms of an S197....300lbs difference between the cars isn't a whole lot of weight, no. And keep in mind, with the Saleen you lose the displacement, the 4-valve heads, the 6-speed transmission and the 31-spine rear end. Pretty important items if you wanna start making real horsepower with it later on down the road. ;)

    As far as making killer horsepower, seeing 500hp out of the combo is still going to require a blower. And unless they plan on using an aluminum block, its still going to be heavy. You'll end up a lot heavier than the GT because of the blower. Hell, even the previous generation SN95 Cobra with its blown 4.6L weighed 3,700lbs.....and it was a much smaller car with a lot less to it.

    Besides if they did plan on going with a stroker/aluminum block combo, do you honestly think they're going to "lower" the price on us? Don't count on it!

    We'd all like to see a lot of things come about, but lets be realistic here. The GT500 is as good as it gets for the money right now. The performance/dollar value is still higher than any other offering currently and will probably remain so for quite a while.
  14. thats the problem "whats another 300lbs? the thing is over two an a half tons anyhow"... the thing is getting heavier and heavier.

    what they need is good lightweight engine making a lot of power. upgrade the rear, upgrade the trany to a 6spd, but dont throw a huge engine in if it adds 3-400lbs.

    the fact of the matter is a gt making the same or slightly less power will run circles around the shelby because its a pig. a very pretty pig... but still a porker.
  15. Your also forgettin over the years that there is price inflation. So a 30k car 5 years ago wouldnt be 30k now it be more like 35k, etc.
  16. But better and better. Is there any doubt that the S197 Mustang is the best Mustang ever built? :shrug:

    That would be nice, but then we'd all be paying Corvette prices, instead of Mustang price. ;)

    Perhaps...but again, its not all about power. What good is power if you haven't got the suporting components to harness it with. Gotta stop and turn too and make sure it lasts the full warranty period. Trust me.....a stock 3V engine isn't gonna get the 3-year 60,000km warranty at 500hp like the GT500 does now. At least not for under $40,000. ;)
  17. I don't understand all the ****ing about weight. Who cares. Cars are heavier today due to all the protection that we supposedly need. All of the terrible drivers out there need to know that all 20 different air bags will protect them when they cause a 30 car pile up. Aside from that are you a avid drag racer or an arm chair drag racer. An air chair drag racer will whine left and right about how heavy the current selection of high horsepower cars are and then we find out that arm chair doesn't race their car anyway. I could see why an avid racer would be concerned, but if you are true to the drag racing you will find ways to cut weight in other areas. Hey who needs those rear seats or jack or anything that doesn't ruin the look of the car. People will change out the hood to something lighter even if its only 50lbs. In the end everyone is complaining about weight when these cars are still hitting times under 13.0s in the 1/4 (300C SRT8, 2005/06 GTO just to name a couple). All of these cars are at 4000 lbs or more with a driver. I would rather have a high horse power car with some beefy parts that may weigh a good deal, but i know they won't break. Look at the Nissan GTR crowd and the problems they have been having with transmissions grenading.
  18. the shelby sure as hell isn't.

    uhm, no, the only difference would be a properly designed powerplant with weigh savings in mind instead of the lazy method of throwing a truck motor in as an afterthought. and corvette prices? last time i checked a c6 costs less than a GT500 and in better in every conceivable way.

    i don't care about paying 40K for a special mustang. the GT is the budget racer, the cobra is supposed to be all out. so trhow a good 32 valve powerplant in the car that doesn't add 400lbs to the dang thing with a dang T56 behind it.

    and weight doesn't matter that much if you're drag racing. more power and sticker tires with stronger stuff in between. it gets exponentially worse in corners.
  19. When you compare cars you have to also compare the amount of money that they coast. Otherwise it would be like saying a Mercedes is better than a Shelby because the Mercedes will beat the Shelby in a 1/4 mile. I say yes a 600+ hp car will beat a 500 hp car, But the Shelby is $40,000 and the Mercedes is $150,000.
    The GT will beat the V6 but is $10,000 more then the V6. Put $10 grand in the V6 and the V6 wins.
    Anyway, This is getting to be like a Ford vs Chevy argument, there will be no winner.
    Here is a good comparison . Between the Shelby and the Roush.
    Ya got to get past the guys Bullit thing though.

    Mustang Roush Vs Mustang Shelby - Video
  20. yep, that video is a perfect example of a near 3600lb car handing it to a over 3900lb car that has more power.