Ive bitten my tongue long enough

[willys1]

I had a set of Thumpers installed over the summer.My best time before them was 13.8 with Nittos..But all I could muster up with Hoosier Quick time pro's was a 14.2-14.3!!!Im guessing they were too much grip and bogged it down off the line.Well when I went to the track(with Thumpers installed) it was 95 degree's with the same humidity.The best time I got was a 14.3!!WTF??? The guy that installed them was a friend of a friend.He races comp so he knows what he is doing.Granted I have the stock h-pipe and a T-Moss intake..Im at a loss
At first I thought the guy didnt put the heads on.But it is alot louder and has rattled off 2 of the heat shields of 2 cats so far..
I can really use some advice..Thanks in advance

 

[srothfuss]

What is the rest of the setup? Cam, rockers... have you rechecked all of the torque settings or checked to see that anything was over torqued?

What about a Dyno run to see if / where your combo is failing you? Your car should have somewhere inbetween 250-260 RWHP. That is plenty to rip off good low 13 second runs.

 

[willys1]

What is the rest of the setup? Cam, rockers... have you rechecked all of the torque settings or checked to see that anything was over torqued?

What about a Dyno run to see if / where your combo is failing you? Your car should have somewhere inbetween 250-260 RWHP. That is plenty to rip off good low 13 second runs.

Thats what Im thinking.The motor is stock,Thumper/T-Moss,1.7rr,65mm TB and FMS shorties.Its runs great,feels faster.Im gonna run Nitto's again when the track opens but you would think at least a few tenths!!

 

[srothfuss]

Yeah... How does the AOD feel? is it slipping or old? That MIGHT have something to do with it, but I doubt more than 3 tenths.

 

[Kenny Gough]

Thumper Heads

I do not know what is wrong, but I have seen guys with #306's and aluminum
heads and aftermarket intakes run 14.5's. I personally have a set of thumpers
and run 12.5's on spray. I know a guy that has a junkyard 302 w/ thumpers Tmoss lower and advanced stock cam that ran a 12.4 NA in the quarter. There are so many factors, and sometimes horsepower dosen't translate into
lower ET's. I saw a guy with a Kenne Bell powered 04 cobra running 13.5's all
day. My advice is to dyno a vehicle before you take it to the track, it will
make sure your A/F ratio is good, and you will know what you are putting to the tire.:Track:

 

[willys1]

I do not know what is wrong, but I have seen guys with #306's and aluminum
heads and aftermarket intakes run 14.5's. I personally have a set of thumpers
and run 12.5's on spray. I know a guy that has a junkyard 302 w/ thumpers Tmoss lower and advanced stock cam that ran a 12.4 NA in the quarter. There are so many factors, and sometimes horsepower dosen't translate into
lower ET's. I saw a guy with a Kenne Bell powered 04 cobra running 13.5's all
day. My advice is to dyno a vehicle before you take it to the track, it will
make sure your A/F ratio is good, and you will know what you are putting to the tire.:Track:

Im putting an X-pipe on then Im "gonna" get a dyno tune

My aod is strong as nails!! 2800 P.I. stall and a shift kit

 

[grey5.0beast]

What were your 60 foot times? Better or worse. Maybe something is loos, go back and check all the connections. on all the vacuum lines and everything.

 

[willys1]

What were your 60 foot times? Better or worse. Maybe something is loos, go back and check all the connections. on all the vacuum lines and everything.

The thing runs like a raped ape!! I was pulling 1.9 60's..I just dont get it..

 

[Daggar]

It doesn't look like you've got much in the way of supporting mods. I'd imagine that even a set of AFR restricted by the stock cam and exhaust probably wouldn't net you any better of a result thena what you have now. You're not giving that additional flow capabilty of the heads anywhere to go. No additional lift, no additional duration, and a restrictive exhaust that couldn't make good use of it even if you had it.

My recommendation: Get custom grind and find a cheap-o off road H or X pipe to slave in there. I'll take a stab and guess that your Bassani Cat-back is of the 2.5 in variety. Exceed or at least match that with your H-pipe to give that exhaust some place to go.

 

[willys1]

It doesn't look like you've got much in the way of supporting mods. I'd imagine that even a set of AFR restricted by the stock cam and exhaust probably wouldn't net you any better of a result thena what you have now. You're not giving that additional flow capabilty of the heads anywhere to go. No additional lift, no additional duration, and a restrictive exhaust that couldn't make good use of it even if you had it.

My recommendation: Get custom grind and find a cheap-o off road H or X pipe to slave in there. I'll take a stab and guess that your Bassani Cat-back is of the 2.5 in variety. Exceed or at least match that with your H-pipe to give that exhaust some place to go.

Theres guys with the stock cam running in the 12's..My 1.7 rr does give me a tad more on the cam.
Yes,,the stock h-pipe is killing me,but I should have seen a little difference!!

 

[5spd GT]

What was the mph? The E.T. may not be the deciding factor.

You should be in the area of 245-250rwhp...

 

[willys1]

What was the mph? The E.T. may not be the deciding factor.

You should be in the area of 245-250rwhp...

again it was extremely hot and humid,96mph

 

[Daggar]

Theres guys with the stock cam running in the 12's..My 1.7 rr does give me a tad more on the cam.
Yes,,the stock h-pipe is killing me,but I should have seen a little difference!!

The thing that comes to mind here is the efficiency of the combination.... both, motor and car. You appear to be running a full weight car with little more than a set of ported stock heads, larger TB, and headers that are banging up against a restrictive H-pipe. It will come down to the weakest link in the chain kind of thing. I've seen one or two (pretty rare) stock headed cars break into the 12s but they were well matched, tuned perfect, and the other mods needed to support the additional effeciency of the motor were present. I saw reference to an estimate of somewhere in the range of 250 to 260 (RW??) HP for that combo. That's a VERY generous estimate IMO considering that a Vortec equipped stocker running between 8 to 10 psi makes about that same power. I don't see anything in your mod list that's capable of moving the same volume of air that an 8 psi vortech is capable of moving. When you stop to consider that torque an HP are byproducts of a motor's ability to move air, combine fuel, and expend pressure on the face of the cylinder to make power, then you'll see my skeptisizm at a 260 HP estimate for your combo. I believe that the heads and intake you've got are capable of those ranges (based soley on information gathered from other threads and the respective sites for those parts) but not if the up and downstream mods are incapable of feeding the air needed to provide that power or removing the exhaust at the other end. That make any sense?

 

[willys1]

yes it did!! But do you see and X-pipe with high flow cats giving me 5 or more tenths?
Its a fact that this combo can provide anywhere from 240-260HP..

If I go back to my original combo with the Nitto's,373's(I ran 2 tenths faster with them--no sh@t) put an X pipe on I would hope to be a 13.5 or in the neighborhood.

 

[Daggar]

Ok... let's take a step back then and change my suggestion to this:

Get her on the dyno and see where you're making power. 410s and an automatic may be putting your shift points beyond the usable power range of your heads and cam (thinking out loud here). Next, start looking at your entire combo and figuring out where your bottle necks are. When you've got your combo set up so that your intake and modded heads have shifted back to being your bottle neck then you'll at least know that you've squeezed all you can out of those mods.

All too often, I've looked at dyno graphs for stock headed, stock cammed, motors where the torque an HP are falling off at around 4500 RPM. If your Heads, cam, and intake, are capable of making usable power beyond that range but your exhaust is not, then yeah!... the H-pipe COULD be worth 5/10s.

It's not to point the finger soley at just one mod (or lack thereof) but to try and illustrate the potential for a lacking support item to effect the combination. How many times have you seen a magazine add boast 35HP gains from an exhaust system, only to find out that the test vehicle was already modified. Something as simple as swapping exhaust doesn't GIVE HP. All it does is free up what's already there.

I understand that you're already aware of all this stuff but I type it all out to illustrate my point. The COMBINATION is what needs to be good. Not just a select few parts of it.

 

[90lxcoupe]

i strongly disagree about the fact that that combo would make 240-260. my car with gt40x's, an e-cam, and a performer RPMII and all the supporting bolt ons made 265 rwhp. the exhaust is a bigtime choke in my opinion, and if you dynoed that car right now i would guess around 230 ish.

also what is the timing set at? that could also be holding you back. is the smog pump and a/c still in your car?

 

[Paul Perreca]

what was the mph when you ran your best time?

 

[90mustangGT]

It's not the heads, but something else in the combo not working out. It's really rough to say what it is over the internet or by suggestion. It would take a series of tests. Thumper E7's made a big difference on my car.

 

[2002BLGT]

you have to remember one thing here , this car would probably turn a best of a 14.7-15.0 if it were back to stock , I think its doing ok to break into 13s for an AOD car even with the shift kit and stall ....try playing with the timing some to get more out of it

 

[willys1]

i strongly disagree about the fact that that combo would make 240-260. my car with gt40x's, an e-cam, and a performer RPMII and all the supporting bolt ons made 265 rwhp. the exhaust is a bigtime choke in my opinion, and if you dynoed that car right now i would guess around 230 ish.

also what is the timing set at? that could also be holding you back. is the smog pump and a/c still in your car?

Like I said before,its a proven fact that this combo is good for 240-260hp.Its been dynoed time and time again.Just ask T-Moss,or Michael Yount,or even Thumper!!

My timing was everything from stock 10 degrees to 15 degrees..

In the summer I will have a GT-40 intake,but rite now I know theres alot more here.