Looking to increase power - need opinions please!!!!!!

[Jaym14]

Ok so heres what I've been kicking around.......

I have a DSS (level 10) 331 stroker 10-1 all ARP Hardware & Main Girdle with factory CNC ported Twisted Wedge 185 heads, Performer RPM II intake, and an Anderson b-41 cam (544/544) relatively mild cam. Car made about 390 to the tire. I want to get to (or close) to 500 rwhp... here's my options.....

Have a custom Cam Ground, port my intake and or heads, (Potential HP Gains?? - I don't want to kill my torque #'s though)

OR

add a Paxton 1220 SL 6 psi supercharger kit (afraid I'll make too much power and split the block)

OR

buy a 393 or 408 stroker shortblock and reuse my heads, intake, and other hardware to complete the longblock.

Only want to invest around another 3000$ or so max......

What do you guys think?????

 

[Shaolin Crane]

well if you get 500rwhp, your gonna have a bunch of pretty lookin parts when they blow out of the block

 

[Jaym14]

well if you get 500rwhp, your gonna have a bunch of pretty lookin parts when they blow out of the block

I understand that 500 is pushing the limit on my block... I threw 500 rwhp out there as a nice round #... I'd be satisfied with 460-480 RWHP which is why I'm leaning towards my first option but I'm not sure if that will be enough to get me there. What do you think?? >>>

 

[stykthyn]

you could always run the blower with a conservative tunes

 

[rbonella]

Since it's an option...408 stroker. Yeah the novi would get you there, but if you running the engine hard ie; drag racing, it's only a matter of time before you damage your block. One would think selling your 331 shortblock would get you some what close to a 408 stroker shortblock. Then when you feel the need for more speed, you have a stronger foundation. mo

 

[1991notchbackLX]

Since it's an option...408 stroker. Yeah the novi would get you there, but if you running the engine hard ie; drag racing, it's only a matter of time before you damage your block. One would think selling your 331 shortblock would get you some what close to a 408 stroker shortblock. Then when you feel the need for more speed, you have a stronger foundation. mo

I agree 100%. You can sell off that DSS 331 to some clown who thinks it's indestructible just because it's from DSS, haha. Then get yourself a nice strong, forged windosor foundation and make the power level you want and then some.

Side note: I didn't realize you live on the island. Whereabouts? We should cruise out!

 

[Foxfan88]

with the power your making now. adding a blower or turbo will make it too easy to get over zealous and turnt he boost up and kill the stock block.

Perhaps you could consider a 100-125 shot of nitrous, a good SOTP kick but only when you really want it.

390 to the tire is a real stout number all motor, should be plenty fast for a street car, but i also understand the HP bug that bites haha.

When its all said and done, if you want to make the power theres just risks and things you have to live with like splitting the stock block. One way to fix it is to buy and aftemarket block and then your golden.

Good luck.

 

[NIKwoaC]

Wait another year until you can/want to afford the Windsor motor, and build it proper. Maybe buy a nitrous kit in the meantime to satisfy your urges. Your top end is a little too small for a 408.

With your setup, forced induction will be difficult (but not impossible), and even mild boost will put you right at the verge of splitting the block. If you're making 390 to the wheels right now, I'd estimate that just 6psi would put you right at or over 500 rwhp.

Edit- Sorry for the redundant post. I guess I'm a slow typer, I see that 3 people posted before I did, all saying the same things, haha.

 

[Jaym14]

I agree 100%. You can sell off that DSS 331 to some clown who thinks it's indestructible just because it's from DSS, haha. Then get yourself a nice strong, forged windosor foundation and make the power level you want and then some.

Side note: I didn't realize you live on the island. Whereabouts? We should cruise out!

Considered this also... what do you think my long block would fetch??
I'm on the Hofstra campus, I think a cruise is a definite possibility... I'm actually hoping to get to Bellmore this Friday night if the weather holds up. I see in your sig you have a custom Jay Allen cam.. how much did it cost and what was your experience like purchasing it? I was looking into Jay Allen and Ed Curtis.

with the power your making now. adding a blower or turbo will make it too easy to get over zealous and turnt he boost up and kill the stock block.

Perhaps you could consider a 100-125 shot of nitrous, a good SOTP kick but only when you really want it.

390 to the tire is a real stout number all motor, should be plenty fast for a street car, but i also understand the HP bug that bites haha.

When its all said and done, if you want to make the power theres just risks and things you have to live with like splitting the stock block. One way to fix it is to buy and aftemarket block and then your golden.

Good luck.

I considered nitrous and buying an aftermarket 302 block and transferring all my stuff over and running a big blower also but this is WAAAYYY over what I want to spend anytime soon.

Your top end is a little too small for a 408.

I thought it might be

With your setup, forced induction will be difficult (but not impossible), and even mild boost will put you right at the verge of splitting the block. If you're making 390 to the wheels right now, I'd estimate that just 6psi would put you right at or over 500 rwhp.

I calculated the same

Edit- Sorry for the redundant post. I guess I'm a slow typer, I see that 3 people posted before I did, all saying the same things, haha.

 

[1991notchbackLX]

Considered this also... what do you think my long block would fetch??
I'm on the Hofstra campus, I think a cruise is a definite possibility... I'm actually hoping to get to Bellmore this Friday night if the weather holds up. I see in your sig you have a custom Jay Allen cam.. how much did it cost and what was your experience like purchasing it? I was looking into Jay Allen and Ed Curtis.


I've never looked into the DSS stuff, so I'm not sure what they go for new. Posting it on the corral classifieds or on craigslist will probably make it move fast, though.

Hofstra isn't too far from me at all. I'll be doing some work on my car this weekend so it may be down for the count, but I'll be at Bald Hill tuesday night for sure.

Now onto Jay Allen. I highly recommend Jay to anyone who asks about him (and most people who don't, haha). He made me exactly what I asked for and his customer service is second to none. Once you're one of Jay's customers he'll back you for life with tech support and whatever else you need. I'm not sure if he's doing it yet, but he said he was going to use the setup he designed for me as the basis for a kit he'll be selling soon to make at least 300 horsepower and torque on a 100% stock shortblock (no flycut pistons), like mine is. If we meet up you can see how my car idles and drives with Jay's cam. Perfection.

 

[Jaym14]

well unfortunately I almost always work tuesday nights so bald hill is out of the question for me but we should meet up for a cruise sometime since were located very close. Plus I wanna see how that Jay Allen cam sounds

 

[NIKwoaC]

Considered this also... what do you think my long block would fetch??
I'm on the Hofstra campus, I think a cruise is a definite possibility... I'm actually hoping to get to Bellmore this Friday night if the weather holds up. I see in your sig you have a custom Jay Allen cam.. how much did it cost and what was your experience like purchasing it? I was looking into Jay Allen and Ed Curtis.


I've never looked into the DSS stuff, so I'm not sure what they go for new. Posting it on the corral classifieds or on craigslist will probably make it move fast, though.

Hofstra isn't too far from me at all. I'll be doing some work on my car this weekend so it may be down for the count, but I'll be at Bald Hill tuesday night for sure.

Now onto Jay Allen. I highly recommend Jay to anyone who asks about him (and most people who don't, haha). He made me exactly what I asked for and his customer service is second to none. Once you're one of Jay's customers he'll back you for life with tech support and whatever else you need. I'm not sure if he's doing it yet, but he said he was goijng to use the setup he designed for me as the basis for a kit he'll be selling soon to make at least 300 horsepower and torque on a 100% stock shortblock (no flycut pistons), like mine is. If we meet up you can see how my car idles and drives with Jay's cam. Perfection.

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!? Get us more info on that one, I'm always interested to see new H/C/I kits.

 

[1991notchbackLX]

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!? Get us more info on that one, I'm always interested to see new H/C/I kits.

Yup! Jay has my cam specs and the details of my entire kit saved in his files I'm sure. If anyone was to contact him and ask for the kit he made me he could duplicate it 100% and I guarantee it would perform exactly the same. My actual peak hp/tq numbers on my dyno sheet were within like 100 RPM off of his predicted values. The guy is a wizard, haha.

The kit would basically be TFS 170cc heads, milled to 58cc combustion chambers with Jay's own bowl blend and Ferrea 6000 series valves, Jay's custom cam, TFS track heat, Jay's valvetrain selections, and supporting mods, obviously. Now you all know my secrets!

 

[90mustangGT]

Bottom end will give you more growing room.

So will a supercharger or turbo.

 

[FastDriver]

With 390 rwhp, I'm guessing compression is probably north of 9.5:1, which would make boost problematic unless you're a race-gas kind of guy. But there is an easy solution here.... 125-150 shot of nitrous would be perfect for what you're trying to do. Cooler IATs reduce the chance of detonation. The 150 would easily put you over the 500 rwhp mark, and it would make pretty sick TQ. The initial cost would land well within your $3k budget. Will the block take it? Probably. For how long is anybody's guess. However, I've seen a guy spray a 250 shot on top of a built long-block for 2 seasons at the drags without a single issue. The only thing he ever told me was that it was all in the tune, which I take to mean that he kept it conservative.

If you want to do a blower, I think you'd hit that number easily with well less than 8 psi. You wouldn't make the same kind of torque as the nitrous motor, though.

A 408 would be a fun project, but at 500rwhp this would not be a cheap job, and I don't think it would fit within your budget unless you bought a used motor or parts after you sold yours used. That would be a hell of a lot more complicated a project than building the motor you already have. I wouldn't hesitate to build what you've got. Just keep the rpm down, timing down, and fuel rich within reason and I would personally push a stock block to 500 rwhp without a whole lot of fear. It could break, but with a good tune 500rwhp is on the edge, not over it.

 

[FastDriver]

You sure you're making 390rwhp? My 320rwhp LX hatch car went 112.9 mph through the traps. 115 seems a little short. At 390 rwhp, I'd expect 118-122 depending on weight.

Oh and I see you're SCR is 10:1, now. That makes boost that much more troublesome a solution unless you're willing to swap pistons to drop compression.

 

[blackened88lx]

You sure you're making 390rwhp? My 320rwhp LX hatch car went 112.9 mph through the traps. 115 seems a little short. At 390 rwhp, I'd expect 118-122 depending on weight.

Exactly what I was going to say. I'm not too confident that combo is even capable of making 390, and the trap speeds show it. Unless your car is 4000 lbs and you're the worst driver ever 390rwhp should put it at 120+. Maybe you ran into an extremely generous dyno.

Either way, you can toss the all motor 331 idea because that won't get you much over 400 without a serious solid roller and spinning it over 7k. Even then I don't see much over 420 or 430 unless you go really crazy. Your topend on a 408 still won't see north of 450. To see 500 with a 408 it's going to be a big head, high comp, big solid roller carbed motor. Or a stock short block 346cui ls1 with a nice top end on it and a mild hydraulic roller. I just can't help throwing that out there every time.

So here's where we stand. Throw a 100-150 shot on it and hammer down.

 

[Cobra912]

I thought I posted in this thread but maybe it was another one that you created along the same lines.

I have a 331 (10:1) running a Paxton 1220SL. I see 7lbs with the Anderson powerpipe. I have run a best of 11.54 @ 121 mph with a crappy T-5 and have nothing more that 70/30 struts, KYB rear shocks, moroso rear drag springs and eibach drop springs in the front along with the stock K-member. And I mean crappy T-5! IT needed a rebuild BEFORE I built this motor!

I have a whole whack of parts to go in including adjustable upper/lower control arms, msd 2-step, and a meth kit so I know I have a whole lot more in it. I feel the car is a low 11 second car, maybe high high 10's which is great as it has a full interior and the only thing deleted for weight was the front sway bar, diff "dogbone" and a few other small odds and ends.

I do not have any signs of detonation, run 94 octane with a bottle of octane boost. I had a tune burnt for me by a reputable tuner on a Chipmaster revolution chip. However I was told it was a conservative tune. The car runs like a stock motor, turns over everytime, and cruises nicley on the highway.

I have never had it on the dyno, but plan to when the funds allow. I feel I may have 400 ponies under the hood, but not much more.............

Would I do it again?

NOPE. Next car will be a 408 snorting NOS backed by a C4. My two cents............

 

[Jaym14]

Bringing this one back from the dead for an update!!

Well I bit the bullet and got a novi 1000 kit for my car... I had too good of a deal to pass up. Complete kit with less than 1000 miles on it for 900$

Given my set up I'm going to try and stick to 5-7 lbs of boost and under 480-490 RWHP. A professional tune will be in order. I have the Anderson PMS so I should be able to keep things under control.. but I've never tuned for boost before so this will be a new experience for me.

I'm running a 80MM mass air and 30lb injectors.... do I need 42 or should I be ok with the 30 and a proper tune? I also have an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator installed in my car... should I stick with that or use the Paxton one?
I have a 255 lph in tank pump already too. I always run 93 octane also.

Should I get an Anderson supercharger powerpipe or would that maybe push the boost too high?

Cobra912 I could use your expertise on this one

 

[S&B]

i would go with 42lb inj. and make sure you have some sort of aftermaket ignition