Need Help Picking Long Block

palerider94

Member
Feb 21, 2006
572
1
19
Need to get a new motor in my 70 fastback this year. I have a c4 with 3.44 trac-loc rear end.

Was thinking about getting a crate motor but considering getting a long block since I have a new distrib, alum waterpump, FRP chrome oil pan plus some of the other parts I can resuse - timing cover etc.

Heard some good things about CHP and was looking at the different options they have for 347. Looking to get 400/400 out of whatever set up and most will be street driven - so streetability is important.

Looking at either street figther or pro-street. The street fighter is more in my price range. Any tips in how I can think thru the various option of the CHP choices for 347 would be appreciated. Below is the link. thanks

Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!
 
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stonecoldtx

Member
Aug 4, 2007
211
1
18
Dallas, TX
Need to get a new motor in my 70 fastback this year. I have a c4 with 3.44 trac-loc rear end.

Was thinking about getting a crate motor but considering getting a long block since I have a new distrib, alum waterpump, FRP chrome oil pan plus some of the other parts I can resuse - timing cover etc.

Heard some good things about CHP and was looking at the different options they have for 347. Looking to get 400/400 out of whatever set up and most will be street driven - so streetability is important.

Looking at either street figther or pro-street. The street fighter is more in my price range. Any tips in how I can think thru the various option of the CHP choices for 347 would be appreciated. Below is the link. thanks

Coast High Performance - YOUR SOURCE FOR PURE HORSEPOWER & PERFORMANCE!

How about one of these (for example):

https://www.ampperformance.com/ford/xcart/product.php?productid=108

I personally build my own engines and have the machine work done at a local shop, but if I were going to buy an assembled engine, it would be a Ford Racing engine--they're assembled in the same manner as they would be if they were being installed in production cars.

If you want an engine that has more power, there's also the 392 Crate engine that Ford Racing has--it puts out 475HP at 5600RPM and 495 ft-lbs of torque at 4400RPM. That would be VERY streetable--and the best thing about this combo is it uses stock-length 302/5.0L pistons.

I also would not use a 347 or a 408 for this very reason--the pistons are too short, and as a result, there is very little skirt length to help prevent "cocking" in the cylinder bore, which causes ring lift and a corresponding loss of compression control and oil control.

The short pistons also wear out a lot sooner--with a 347 or 408, I'd be surprised if you got more than 30,000 miles out of one of these engines before you had to pull it and overhaul, or even worse--if the cylinders were also worn to the point that the block has to be bored again, and with the only safe overbore on a 302-based engine being .030 (unless you have sonic tested the cylinder walls to make sure they're thick enough for another overbore), you'd have to basically replace the entire shortblock.

If you're not "into" replacing your engine all that often, I recommend that you install a 302, a 331 (about the largest you can go without running into a piston that is too short, and even then, it's getting on the ragged edge), a 4.1xxx-based stroker (which would require a MUCHO expensive engine block in order to bore it to 4.125"), or go with a 351-based stroker, like the 392.

In my eyes, the 392 is the best of both worlds--you get the increased cubic inches and power, but retain the stock level of longevity with the longer pistons.

Also--the Ford Racing crate engines come with a 12mo/12,000mi warranty . . . it's my guess that Coast doesn't offer anything like that at all because I see no mention of it anywhere . . .
 

palerider94

Member
Feb 21, 2006
572
1
19
Thanks Stonecold, have looked at the 392. Would I be able to use Hooker Cermaic headers I have on my current 302?
 

woodsnake

10 Year Member
Jan 16, 2007
1,351
15
69
Hicksville, NY
Before you spend any money go read up over on S B F T e c h .com. (skip the spaces...)

They can answer all your stroker motor questions, and smartly address all your concerns about oil control and any other piston issues....

They have an entire section dedicated to myths and rumors, you will enjoy that as well.....
 

stonecoldtx

Member
Aug 4, 2007
211
1
18
Dallas, TX
Before you spend any money go read up over on S B F T e c h .com. (skip the spaces...)

They can answer all your stroker motor questions, and smartly address all your concerns about oil control and any other piston issues....

They have an entire section dedicated to myths and rumors, you will enjoy that as well.....
Exactly what myths and rumors are you referring to?
 

stonecoldtx

Member
Aug 4, 2007
211
1
18
Dallas, TX
Thanks Stonecold, have looked at the 392. Would I be able to use Hooker Cermaic headers I have on my current 302?
I'm not sure if you'd be able to use them or not, but to be quite honest, you might not want to--they probably have 1-5/8" primary tubes, and that is a little bit small for a large cube engine.

There are several header manufacturers out there that manufacture larger tube headers (Accufab, FPA, etc.), but as you can imagine, they can get pricey.

Have you checked the Hooker application catalog to see if they list the header part number you have for the 351W? It's very possible that they made a single header for all 302 and 351-Windsor-based engines . . .
 

palerider94

Member
Feb 21, 2006
572
1
19
I did checker Hooker catalog looks like they will fit - I hate to spends bucks on another set. I'm pretty close to pulling trigger on 392 - looks like a good option for me.
 

stonecoldtx

Member
Aug 4, 2007
211
1
18
Dallas, TX
I did checker Hooker catalog looks like they will fit - I hate to spends bucks on another set. I'm pretty close to pulling trigger on 392 - looks like a good option for me.

That's a real good and really popular engine; several years ago, one of the magazines (don't remember which one) did an article on the 430HP version of the FRPP 392 engine, and they installed a set of AFR 185 heads on it, and with no other changes, the engine dyno'd at something like 495HP or 500HP!

I'm building a similar combination, using a CompCams camshaft with exactly the same specs as the Crane cam the FRPP engine uses, except for the exhaust lift is .576 vs .574.

I'll be using a set of AFR 185 heads, and probably a Trick Flow "Box-R" intake on it; I haven't yet decided whether to use the 75mm throttle body version or the 90mm version, but I'm leaning toward the 90mm version.

I figure this combo will be worth around the same power as the FRPP engine with the AFR heads.

I think you will like this engine . . .
 

mustangbrad

Member
Aug 16, 2004
127
5
19
I would like to second "woodsnake"'s recommendation for that web site before you pull the trigger on a 392 and give up some cubic inches based completely on a myth. Remember that once upon a time you could get a 400 cubic inch small block (based on the 351M) straight from Ford in several full sized cars and trucks. Which is basically what a 408 stroker kit is for the Windsor block. I can personally vouch for the fact that they would last much longer than 30,000 miles. I am not trying to knock the 392 from Ford, I just want you to make an informed decision.

If I can make a suggestion on another place to shop for longblocks, check out fordstrokers.com. Top notch products and service.
 

D.Hearne

New Member
Sep 29, 2000
11,730
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south louisiana
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I would like to second "woodsnake"'s recommendation for that web site before you pull the trigger on a 392 and give up some cubic inches based completely on a myth. Remember that once upon a time you could get a 400 cubic inch small block (based on the 351M) straight from Ford in several full sized cars and trucks..
Umm, you've got that backwards. The 351M was a destroked 400. The 400 came out in the 71 model year, the 351M first appeared in 1975. Some of the early stroker 351W's used a 400 crank that was modified to fit the Windsor block.
 

mustangbrad

Member
Aug 16, 2004
127
5
19
Sorry about my use of words D.Hearne, probably should have said that they shared the same block. I guess what I really was trying to say was that a 4" stroke has been used in a similar configuration from the factory. Although they were not known for making huge power numbers (mostly due to emision restrictions) their durability was just fine.

The only real advantage of the 392 is usually price because it can use stock 351 rods and stock 302 pistons, so the only trick piece is the crank. Whereas a typical 408 kit requires an entire rotating assembly that is not stock. So if you are on a real tight budget shop around for a 392 crank and stock rods and pistons. Otherwise i'd go atleast 408 in a Windsor block. Don't be too quick to discount a 347 either. They have been known to make some real nasty power without all the extra weight of a 351. I'm refering mostly to recipricating weight and rotational mass. Remember that the amount of peak power an engine makes does not always dictate how fast your car will accelerate. Lots of other factors come into play like where is the useable power band and how quickly can you get into that power. So sometimes a small light engine with less peak power will accelerate quicker than a larger more powerful engine, if it takes longer to get into its power due to the additional mass. My last statement is assuming the same or similar cars of course.
 

palerider94

Member
Feb 21, 2006
572
1
19
After doing a little more research and thinking thru this some I pretty sure I'm going to go with the FRP 392 - only debate now is if I should go with the z heads or gt40s. I was shying away from z heads becuase I was hoping to use my Hooker Comp ceramics but as Stonecold pointed out I may want to go with a header that has a larger inlet. After doing a little research I tend to agree with him

Since I'm not much of a motor guy I really like the idea of going with Ford Racing crates. I did look at 347s but it is way too pricey.

Appreciate everyones advice - Any opinions on z heads versus GT40s - would it be worth the $600 or so to upgrade.
 

stonecoldtx

Member
Aug 4, 2007
211
1
18
Dallas, TX
After doing a little more research and thinking thru this some I pretty sure I'm going to go with the FRP 392 - only debate now is if I should go with the z heads or gt40s. I was shying away from z heads becuase I was hoping to use my Hooker Comp ceramics but as Stonecold pointed out I may want to go with a header that has a larger inlet. After doing a little research I tend to agree with him

Since I'm not much of a motor guy I really like the idea of going with Ford Racing crates. I did look at 347s but it is way too pricey.

Appreciate everyones advice - Any opinions on z heads versus GT40s - would it be worth the $600 or so to upgrade.
I believe that the "Z" heads are actually GT40Z, so you would be using GT40's either way; the question would be: which GT40's other than the "Z" head are you referring to?
 

blown65

Founding Member
Jul 7, 1999
1,937
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39
48
Medford, Oregon
streetfire.net
After doing a little more research and thinking thru this some I pretty sure I'm going to go with the FRP 392 - only debate now is if I should go with the z heads or gt40s. I was shying away from z heads becuase I was hoping to use my Hooker Comp ceramics but as Stonecold pointed out I may want to go with a header that has a larger inlet. After doing a little research I tend to agree with him

Since I'm not much of a motor guy I really like the idea of going with Ford Racing crates. I did look at 347s but it is way too pricey.

Appreciate everyones advice - Any opinions on z heads versus GT40s - would it be worth the $600 or so to upgrade.
I would say the Z heads and have someone port them down the road. Buschracing has done quite a few of those heads off hardcore50.
 

truck90278

New Member
Jun 4, 2006
382
1
0
Redondo Beach, CA
I would recommend CHP. they are local to us and we've been in their shop. We were running a Ford Racing 332 stroker, unfortunately a small washer got down the carb unknowingly. The pistons that came in the Ford Racing engine had an extremely short skirt AND the wrist pin went thru the oil ring grove - neither which is good for street use. When we rebuilt, CHP supplied pistons with a longer skirt and with the wrist pin relocated below the oil ring grove.
 
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