price check on granada disc stuff

[Edbert]

I understand the reasons for using a granada rear axle and it's disc brakes, but what is the argument for using granada front brakes?

They don't seem to be any better than the vintage ones which at least were 4-piston units. Is it just a price thing?

 

[steel1212]

I have drums now so its a disc thing lol.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I understand the reasons for using a granada rear axle and it's disc brakes, but what is the argument for using granada front brakes?

They don't seem to be any better than the vintage ones which at least were 4-piston units. Is it just a price thing?

Its a step up from drum brakes and they cost about half as much as the average aftermarket conversion even if you buy all new parts. I have front drums and they suck. My '65 notch had factory discs and while you had to stand on the pedal, they had alot better control.

 

[Edbert]

Thanks, I was wondering if the rotors were larger, pad surface greater or the steering geomertry improved with the different spindle.

Price is a DEFINITE plus too of course!

 

[degins]

I understand the reasons for using a granada rear axle and it's disc brakes, but what is the argument for using granada front brakes?

They don't seem to be any better than the vintage ones which at least were 4-piston units. Is it just a price thing?

I'd say that the advantages of the Granada system over the original system are:

Compared to 65-67
1. The spindles and pin are more massive than the original.
2. The spindle and caliper bracket were designed together as a disc brake system vs. the after thought caliper bracket on the drum designed spindle use in 65-67.
3. The 45 year old designed 4 piston originals require a lot of maintenance. They were/are great for track use were they will be regularly maintained.
4. The large single piston Granada caliper is very reliable. Ford made probably 10 million of these calipers and had no problems that I know of.
5. All of the associated parts, especially calipers, are much less expensive than any of the 65-73 Mustang disc brake parts.


Compared to 68-73
1. The spindle is stronger than the 68-69, is the same, in fact identical to the 70-73 except for the size of the tie rod mounting hole and the caliper bracket mounting hole.
2. The Granada has a larger caliper piston than the 68-73.
3. Granada system parts, including calipers, hoses, tie rods, and small parts are MUCH less expensive.

I'd say that the disadvantages to the Granada system are:

Compared to 65-67
1. The spindles need to be replaced. This is offset by the fact that removing the spindles facilitates suspension maintenance, and the fact that the spindles are an upgrade in strength.
2. They are not 65-67 original.
3. They wheels will probably need to be upgraded to later model Ford standard disc brake 14" steel wheels, or aftermarket wheels.
4. The steering arm geometry is slighty different than the original (about 0.4"). I will be soon offering a 65-66 model specific Granada spindle.

Compared to 68-73
1. None.


My opinion, for what it's worth!



http://www.discbrakeswap.com

 

[65ShelbyClone]

...in fact identical to the 70-73 except for the size of the tie rod mounting hole...

How are the Granada rod ends different? Larger post?

 

[Edbert]

My opinion, for what it's worth!

Wow, great post!

So do you think that two larger pistons in a floating design are better than 4 smaller pistons in the classic design assuming toal bore size is equal? If so is it the floating design that makes them so or does it have to do with too many moving parts in the 4-piston design?

I ask because I just put the Cobra (PBR) calipers on my project (http://www.edbert.net/brakes.htm), and although they are lighter than the factory units they just don't "seem" to be as well engineered, I mean the outboard pad does not press inwards at all. I daily-drove a 97 Cobra for almost 9 years and loved the brakes, I'm not regretting the swap or even second guessing it, the 13" rotors will be much better than my factory 10" could ever be no matter what caliper I used. But the single pad-clamp thing has me scratching my head.

 

[12sec67]

How are the Granada rod ends different? Larger post?

YEP...




And for everyone else doing this granada swap, instead of buying the stock replacements i found slotted rotors for the same price...

FYI- The Mustang Depot in Riverside, Ca - i don't know if its related to the one in Las Vegas...? but i paid $118 i think included shipping


The Mustang Depot
1710 Palmyrita Ave Ste. 18
Riverside, CA 92507
p 951-369-0200

 

[degins]

["Wow, great post!

So do you think that two larger pistons in a floating design are better than 4 smaller pistons in the classic design assuming toal bore size is equal? If so is it the floating design that makes them so or does it have to do with too many moving parts in the 4-piston design?

I ask because I just put the Cobra (PBR) calipers on my project (http://www.edbert.net/brakes.htm), and although they are lighter than the factory units they just don't "seem" to be as well engineered, I mean the outboard pad does not press inwards at all. I daily-drove a 97 Cobra for almost 9 years and loved the brakes, I'm not regretting the swap or even second guessing it, the 13" rotors will be much better than my factory 10" could ever be no matter what caliper I used. But the single pad-clamp thing has me scratching my head.]

Edbert,
The pistons in the four pistons original are known to freeze up. The floating caliper from the Granada is similar to the PBR caliper in that piston(s) are on the inboard side and the outboard pad is fixed to the caliper housing. These are more reliable because, as you state, there are fewer parts.

Having the pistons on only one side is equivalent to having them on both sides. The caliper housing is free to move. So when the piston presses against one side of the rotor, the housing along with the outboard pad attached to it, moves inboard and causes the outboard pad to contact the rotor. Under these conditions, the two systems are equivalent.

True the 13" rotors are generally better than 10" rotors. I am reluctant to suggest putting them on the small original 65-69 spindles.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

YEP...

So I suppose a tapered convertor sleeve could be made in order to use the Mustang rods ends...

And for everyone else doing this granada swap, instead of buying the stock replacements i found slotted rotors for the same price...

FYI- The Mustang Depot in Riverside, Ca - i don't know if its related to the one in Las Vegas...? but i paid $118 i think included shipping

Thats not bad for slotted, but have you heard of A.V. Brake Supply? I know there is one in Valencia or Santa Clarita(?) and one closer to me in Lancaster. Stock rotors from them are typically $30-35 each for anyone counting pennies like me.

Also, anyone know how easy it is to find stainless Granada caliper pistons?

 

[krash kendall]

4. The steering arm geometry is slighty different than the original (about 0.4"). I will be soon offering a 65-66 model specific Granada spindle.

What is your current time frame on these ones? I've been following your venture since you started, but if you could refresh my memory a bit;

A. Are these going to have the Granada geometry corrected with respect to the bumpsteer it creates in a 64-66 mustang?

B. If so, will this be to stock 64-66 geometry or will will it also correct the inherent problems with that negating the desire for a shelby drop?

C. Will these accept the mustang correct tie-rod, or will a hybrid granada/mustang one still be required?


I'm not sure if I'm asking you to repeat yourself again, but I know how frequent revisions can occur during this type of project.

Thanks.

 

[krash kendall]

So I suppose a tapered convertor sleeve could be made in order to use the Mustang rods ends...

MustangSteve sells them.

 

[yeloxr7]

Another advantage to Granada brakes over 68-73, is that they are much easier to work on.

 

[bnickel]

Another advantage to Granada brakes over 68-73, is that they are much easier to work on.

really? i can change the pads on my stock 69 brakes in about 30 minutes or less from the time i start jacking the car up to the time i put my tools away.

not disagreeing with you at all, but i can change the brakes on the stang a lot quicker than i can change the brakes on my 93 cherokee and those are sopposed to be very easy to change.

 

[yeloxr7]

really? i can change the pads on my stock 69 brakes in about 30 minutes or less from the time i start jacking the car up to the time i put my tools away.

not disagreeing with you at all, but i can change the brakes on the stang a lot quicker than i can change the brakes on my 93 cherokee and those are sopposed to be very easy to change.

One bolt per caliper vs. six. Plus a few taps with a hammer and drift. Much easier in my opinion.

 

[12sec67]

MustangSteve sells them.

you beet me to it

 

[degins]

What is your current time frame on these ones? I've been following your venture since you started, but if you could refresh my memory a bit;

A. Are these going to have the Granada geometry corrected with respect to the bumpsteer it creates in a 64-66 mustang?

B. If so, will this be to stock 64-66 geometry or will will it also correct the inherent problems with that negating the desire for a shelby drop?

C. Will these accept the mustang correct tie-rod, or will a hybrid granada/mustang one still be required?


I'm not sure if I'm asking you to repeat yourself again, but I know how frequent revisions can occur during this type of project.

Thanks.

krash,

To answer in order:
A.
These will be interchangeable with the original Granadas, brackets, spindles, hardware. I did it this way because it allowed me to establish a relationship with my foundry using a directly reproducible model. In other words, I wanted to be sure that my foundry could handle the modeling, that is making the master mold, before I jumped in too deep. As I suspected, the process was not as easy as you may think. The foundry was very cooperative and competent, but it still took 6 tries to get the tooling correct. We were very careful in getting the dimensions and metallurgy right. Now I can make the 65-66 model of spindle by making only a minor steering arm modification to the tooling of the first model.

You probably remember that my market philosophy is skewed toward the daily driven Mustang owner or the non-performance enthusiast. I have NOT been convinced that the original Granada spindle is not suitable for those users. But I recognize that there is a market for the 65-66 specific model. I will be able to turn that project around quickly, probably March.

B.
For the reasons outlined above, the next model will be interchangeable with the original Granada EXCEPT that the steering arm geometry will be the same as 65-66 spindles.

I don't think that a spindle mod would address issues corrected and brought on by the Shelby drop. I think they would better be addressed through control arm mod.

C.
The new spindles will use the Granada type tie rods. It would be impractical for me to offer spindles that are tie rod specific. With the exception of the left side outer tie rod for those 65-66 power steering equipped Mustangs, the Granada tie rod is compatible with all years. It also has the beefiest stud of all the year model tie rods with identical body geometry and thread configuration. I will soon offer a 65-66 power steering tie rod with the larger diameter stud.

Thanks krash for your constructive comments.


As a post script to the couple of posters about slotted rotors. I am also offering slotted Granada rotor. They are $75 a pair plus $18-$28 S&H.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I just have one more question before I stop hijacking this thread:

Does anyone have or know the diameters for both ends of the Granada and Mustang rod end holes? Those adapter bushings cost more than a set of new Granada tie rods!

 

[degins]

I just have one more question before I stop hijacking this thread:

Does anyone have or know the diameters for both ends of the Granada and Mustang rod end holes? Those adapter bushings cost more than a set of new Granada tie rods!

They do. But they cost less than a original power steering type or the special one offered by Mustang plus.

A Granada tie rod usually works fine on the right side, or both sides on a manual steer car. I say usually because the difference in the steering arm geometry of the Granada spindle (located about 3/8" inboard compared to the 65-66 original) can cause difficulty getting enough toe out to align the wheel. If this is the case, cut or grind about 3/16" of the threads off the offending inner and outer tie rods.

Mustang Steve's price for the bushing is not out of line. Those are machined parts that have marketing cost, along with time and money invested in bringing them to market.

I'll soon offer a special 65-66 type outer tie rod for power steer cars using Granada spindles.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I dont doubt the price is acceptable, but I can make them out of 0-1 steel myself for only what it costs me in time . I was just lamenting the fact that I can get new parts that need to complete the swap for less. If I already had new rod ends, thats different...

The bigger problem I've been having is finding Granada swap info specific to '68-70 cars. Everything I come up with is for '65-66 with just passing mentions of "if you have a later car, this may not apply" and the like.