torque conbverter and 1/4 mile

[TGJ]

Thats bull. Your supposed to be an adult man, STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING PLEASE. This isnt the place for that...calling someone an idiot with A. no proof, and b. on a family friendly tech forum is rediculous.

Remember TGJ, your not the end all of knowledge. Everyone is just as entitled to an opinion as you bro. And so far....ill I have seen is opinion in this thread. What makes yours better than anyone elses?

Just be glad im not a mod here. ...ok so I wouldnt go that far

Proof:

Here it is again. From my 1997 Ford Repair CD. Stall Speed test for a 1997 Mustang Auto.

If that is too small, the big version...

I guess that proves that I am right on the stall speed...

 

[TGJ]

so now i smoke crack since we each read different examples as to how to read stall flash? I know what i've read, stop being disrespectful - it gets you no where. You're arguing on the internet like you're on trail for murder, i recommend prioritizing your time and effort.

If what I said needed what you said added to it, I would have put it in my original post. The fact that you added incorrect info to what I posted is why you got bit into. If you don't like, to bad. Get your facts correct as well before you add to what I say.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

If what I said needed what you said added to it, I would have put it in my original post. The fact that you added incorrect info to what I posted is why you got bit into. If you don't like, to bad. Get your facts correct as well before you add to what I say.

incorrect info? I read that on Tccoa forums to check true stall you need resistance from the slight hill and not to just do a burn out up it - just goose it to check the stall rating. You must spend your whole day defending magazine articles and chilton write-ups cuz you read it with your own eyes!

 

[TGJ]

incorrect info? I read that on Tccoa forums to check true stall you need resistance from the slight hill and not to just do a burn out up it - just goose it to check the stall rating. You must spend your whole day defending magazine articles and chilton write-ups cuz you read it with your own eyes!

Like I said, you don't need a hill as resistance. I have done that test with every TC I have had, not once did I ever use a hill to get it...

If it needed to be done, I would have put out it originally...

I don't use Chilton or Haynes crap, only the true Manufacture's printed or CD/DVD repair manuals. I am probably the most anti-magazine person you will ever meet...

 

[04YELLOWGT]

You are probably one of the most disrespectful people I’ve met on this site not only to me but other people on this site that just happen to disagree with you. Believe it or not you do not know everything and your OPINION is NOT fact. If you want to believe the stall is 2400-2700 from your sources do it but I’m going with my sources.

You have yet to show me this time slip of your friends who ran 11.7 on a 90* day at 1700’ above sea level.

Talking about my car has nothing to do with this yet you keep throwing it up acting like 11.64 was best it will ever run. IT WAS”T EVEN A FULL RUN. Then you talk about my sig, look what I’m having done to my car!

A T-TRIM UPGRADE, 3000 STALL, AND BUILT TRANS.

I think you really need to get on the boards and see what the guys are making to get in the 10s because I think you’re in LALA Land. Hell I look hotmustang he has a Cobra making 458 he’s not in the 10s and his TT GT never made it in10s either (at least I don’t think) he must be an idiot to. In your eyes 99% of the people the race there cars are idiots because none that I’ve ever seen is in the 10s with 430rwhp.

(I DON”T KNOW IF WE’RE ALLOWED TO DO THIS SO IF NOT MODS TAKE IT DOWN)

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/timeslips.php?

You were also saying my facts were wrong before the TC stall was even brought up. This was because I disagreed with what you recommended I guess I didn’t know those were facts.

I’m done arguing, this is my last post on this topic but seriously need to get over your self and what you THINK is FACT. And get a grip on what NORMAL STREET cars run because I sure hell have seen one run what you expect or think one should.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Like I said, you don't need a hill as resistance. I have done that test with every TC I have had, not once did I ever use a hill to get it...

If it needed to be done, I would have put out it originally...

I don't use Chilton or Haynes crap, only the true Manufacture's printed or CD/DVD repair manuals. I am probably the most anti-magazine person you will ever meet...

yes, but manufacturer printed or cd/dvd only account for stock cars. Car's with 3.73's or 4.10's over a 3.08 will see less of a load on the TC, and you put in into 2nd gear in order to create that load on the TC brake. Furthermore if you have gears and you break loose it's even less of a load since resistance diminishes. Less load = less stall speed before acceleration. Even if you dont have gears a hill is a good idea to create this heightened load, it's the reason you start out in 2nd, cuz the tranny will start from 1st in every other setting so putting the shifter in "2" makes the most load you can from a stop.
Alan of dirtydog has done "substantial testing" on this very issue.
Basically the less load you put on the TC (whether through loosing traction, being on a flat road, or having higher gears) the lower the flash rating will appear on your tachometer regardless of its actual true stall

 

[TGJ]

You are probably one of the most disrespectful people I’ve met on this site not only to me but other people on this site that just happen to disagree with you. Believe it or not you do not know everything and your OPINION is NOT fact. If you want to believe the stall is 2400-2700 from your sources do it but I’m going with my sources.

You have yet to show me this time slip of your friends who ran 11.7 on a 90* day at 1700’ above sea level.

Talking about my car has nothing to do with this yet you keep throwing it up acting like 11.64 was best it will ever run. IT WAS”T EVEN A FULL RUN. Then you talk about my sig, look what I’m having done to my car!

A T-TRIM UPGRADE, 3000 STALL, AND BUILT TRANS.

I think you really need to get on the boards and see what the guys are making to get in the 10s because I think you’re in LALA Land. Hell I look hotmustang he has a Cobra making 458 he’s not in the 10s and his TT GT never made it in10s either (at least I don’t think) he must be an idiot to. In your eyes 99% of the people the race there cars are idiots because none that I’ve ever seen is in the 10s with 430rwhp.

(I DON”T KNOW IF WE’RE ALLOWED TO DO THIS SO IF NOT MODS TAKE IT DOWN)

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/timeslips.php?

You were also saying my facts were wrong before the TC stall was even brought up. This was because I disagreed with what you recommended I guess I didn’t know those were facts.

I’m done arguing, this is my last post on this topic but seriously need to get over your self and what you THINK is FACT. And get a grip on what NORMAL STREET cars run because I sure hell have seen one run what you expect or think one should.

First, you brought your own car into this, not me. This is what I have and run to give you an idea. Do you remember saying that? You are the one who claims to have one of the fastest auto GT's on the board as though it means more than I am saying.

Second, you questioned what I suggested first. Stating I was giving bad info. The stall rating for the stock GT TC is too high. I have shown you something from Ford that shows what the stall is for a stock GT. I told you where I got my info from, Ford. Yet you argued it. Ford's service manual is only one of many of their sources where you can find it.

I am not stating that every car with 430 - 470 RWHP is going to run a 10 second slip. I know what it takes to run a 10 second pass, I have been there. Granted not in a modular V8, but I haven't tried with one either. I said your car should be a 10 second car and it has not got there yet...

 

[TGJ]

yes, but manufacturer printed or cd/dvd only account for stock cars. Car's with 3.73's or 4.10's over a 3.08 will see less of a load on the TC, and you put in into 2nd gear in order to create that load on the TC brake. Furthermore if you have gears and you break loose it's even less of a load since resistance diminishes. Less load = less stall speed before acceleration. Even if you dont have gears a hill is a good idea to create this heightened load, it's the reason you start out in 2nd, cuz the tranny will start from 1st in every other setting so putting the shifter in "2" makes the most load you can from a stop.
Alan of dirtydog has done "substantial testing" on this very issue.
Basically the less load you put on the TC (whether through loosing traction, being on a flat road, or having higher gears) the lower the flash rating will appear on your tachometer regardless of its actual true stall

I am not going to argue this with you, there is many different sources from Ford that has that info. The service CD I used was the one I had handy...

That info is the stock stall speed of the TC, that was brought into question. The answer has been provided.

I don't agree with what you stated there. My TBird when I used it to test it's TC's they were in the area they were supposed to be with my testing on flat surface...

My entire problem with this thread is that I said that running the stock GT TC and a SC is a bad idea. I am told I am wrong by 04YellowGT because he has done it with his. He knows more than me because he has this fast auto GT. Anybody I know that is knowledgeable will not recommend using the stock TC with a SC, especially if it is tuned to get the max performance out of it. Then 04YellowGT disagrees with me on the stock stall RPM of the stock TC. The numbers I posted for it are from FORD, his is from his brother-in-law who supposedly works for Ford.

You bite into me with attitude, you will get bit back. If you are going to disagree with me, you better have your facts in order, 04YellowGT didn't. I would hate to see somebody toast their stock TC because 04YellowGT said it was ok for a SC'd application. 04YellowGT was lucky and I am not so suret that he is lucky. If it is such a great TC, why did he let off of it on that 11.64 pass? Why is he replacing his TC and transmission? I have seen these stock GT TC's toasted with bolt-on N/A cars, I have even done it. I don't know of to many SC'd cars that have not blown their stock TC.

 

[04YELLOWGT]

My entire problem with this thread is that I said that running the stock GT TC and a SC is a bad idea. I am told I am wrong by 04YellowGT because he has done it with his. He knows more than me because he has this fast auto GT. Anybody I know that is knowledgeable will not recommend using the stock TC with a SC, especially if it is tuned to get the max performance out of it. Then 04YellowGT disagrees with me on the stock stall RPM of the stock TC. The numbers I posted for it are from FORD, his is from his brother-in-law who supposedly works for Ford.

You bite into me with attitude, you will get bit back. If you are going to disagree with me, you better have your facts in order, 04YellowGT didn't. I would hate to see somebody toast their stock TC because 04YellowGT said it was ok for a SC'd application. 04YellowGT was lucky and I am not so suret that he is lucky. If it is such a great TC, why did he let off of it on that 11.64 pass? Why is he replacing his TC and transmission? I have seen these stock GT TC's toasted with bolt-on N/A cars, I have even done it. I don't know of to many SC'd cars that have not blown their stock TC.

I wasn’t gonna post anymore here but this is bulls**t.

Saying running a stock stall on a SC is bad is WRONG!! Thousands of people do this and don’t toast their stalls. I have NEVER heard any supercharger manufacture or performance shop say that when you SC your auto that you should get a new TC because it will get fried. Then claiming a bolt on car will, Jesus look how many auto NA cars there are running stock TC and not blowing. THIS IS NOT A FACT PEOPLE RUN THEM FINE EVERY DAY.

You act as if you’re the be all end all to knowledge on these cars and guess what your not. You claim to know much more than you obviously do and have a very cocky demeanor about it.

First, you brought your own car into this, not me. This is what I have and run to give you an idea. Do you remember saying that? You are the one who claims to have one of the fastest auto GT's on the board as though it means more than I am saying.

Second, you questioned what I suggested first. Stating I was giving bad info. The stall rating for the stock GT TC is too high. I have shown you something from Ford that shows what the stall is for a stock GT. I told you where I got my info from, Ford. Yet you argued it. Ford's service manual is only one of many of their sources where you can find it.

I am not stating that every car with 430 - 470 RWHP is going to run a 10 second slip. I know what it takes to run a 10 second pass, I have been there. Granted not in a modular V8, but I haven't tried with one either. I said your car should be a 10 second car and it has not got there yet...

What don’t you quit using what I’m saying out of context. I used my car as an example of what a stock auto can do some people like to know things like this kind of like how you like to throw up your 10sec cars with under 500rwhp. The reason I brought my car up as being one of the fastest stock autos on the boards is because your talking s**t to me about my car being slow. Well guess what if that’s the case every other one is too.

Once again you act as if it’s a sin to question you, you really need to get over your self. Like I said you go with your source I’ll go with mine. To me its really not that big of a deal and I don’t go around throwing that info out actually this is the first time.

Your not stating every car with 430-470rwho should run a 10 but I guess your just stating mine should? What it boils down to is you were pissed off I questioning your all mighty knowledge and you resorted to talking s**t, plain and simple.

Answer me this then about these 10sec cars:

Were they at full/stock weight?
What did these cars weigh stock?
Where they on stock suspension?
What were you 60’ ?
Where they on a 100% stock auto?


PS: WHERES THAT 11.70 SLIP?

 

[04YELLOWGT]

By the way to clear a few things:

I let off at the 1000' mark do to my gears which were 4.10s at the time. Nothing more nothing less.

I’m getting the upgraded trans because my tranny is starting to go. Which I knew it would eventually at these levels. Plus my tuner said he wouldn't tune it with out a tranny rebuilt so that’s what’s getting done and while I was at it I’m throwing is a 3000 stall for good measures. My goal is a 10sec car the is 100% streetable and can be a semi-DD if need be and that’s what I SHOULD have when done.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

I am not going to argue this with you, there is many different sources from Ford that has that info. The service CD I used was the one I had handy...

That info is the stock stall speed of the TC, that was brought into question. The answer has been provided.

I actually don't have a beef with the rest of what you've said besides the attitude - the stalls you wrote are correct n such. All im saying is for a flash stall test on the street a flat surface might suffice on a stock car or one that weights a lot, but for general advice that's applicable to most any car w/ or w/o gears and mods - it's best to increase load as much as possible to judge your flash stall since that's when your TC hits it's true flash stall - under lots of load. Ford wouldn't need to recomend this since they assume everyone's car is stock, but if someones wanting or has a stall TC i'm assuming their car isn't stock.

 

[TGJ]

By the way to clear a few things:

I let off at the 1000' mark do to my gears which were 4.10s at the time. Nothing more nothing less.

I’m getting the upgraded trans because my tranny is starting to go. Which I knew it would eventually at these levels. Plus my tuner said he wouldn't tune it with out a tranny rebuilt so that’s what’s getting done and while I was at it I’m throwing is a 3000 stall for good measures. My goal is a 10sec car the is 100% streetable and can be a semi-DD if need be and that’s what I SHOULD have when done.

I wasn’t gonna post anymore here but this is bulls**t.

Saying running a stock stall on a SC is bad is WRONG!! Thousands of people do this and don’t toast their stalls. I have NEVER heard any supercharger manufacture or performance shop say that when you SC your auto that you should get a new TC because it will get fried. Then claiming a bolt on car will, Jesus look how many auto NA cars there are running stock TC and not blowing. THIS IS NOT A FACT PEOPLE RUN THEM FINE EVERY DAY.

You act as if you’re the be all end all to knowledge on these cars and guess what your not. You claim to know much more than you obviously do and have a very cocky demeanor about it.

I toasted a stock Mustang GT TC with a minor bolt-on N/A 4.6 2V TBird that's race weight with driver is 3800 pounds. I took the car to the track and ran a 14.1 @ 95 MPH with a 1.82 60 foot. About month later, hoping for a 13 second pass, I took the car the back to track in better air, less weight and the best it could run was a 14.5 @ 92 MPH with a 2.0 60'. The car kept getting slower at the track, but having no issues while being daily driven. I asked on other boards I belong to what the problem could be. I got answer back from some pretty knowledgable people to take a look at the TC. So I buy a new TC, the 3rd ever 3600 - 3800 RPM Stall TC from DirtyDog. I send him my stock Mustang GT TC as a core. He cuts it open, and let's me know that it was toast. It was not the ugliest one he has seen but it was done.

I personally know of 3 others that went in N/A cars and one in a SC car. I belong to other boards and people have trashed theirs with N/A cars. I could probably find you quite a few examples in a few minutes of searching other boards.

How I found out mine was done was because of the car's worsening performance at the track. There was no real symtoms of it during daily driven duties.

I belong to other boards. People are sharing info that they are adding FI to their auto mustang. People that have FI are responding that they should be looking at PI Triple Disc's, it is only a matter of time before the stock converter goes. This board here, you are saying it is fine.

My personal experience with N/A and SC cars is that it is not fine. The info I have gathered from other boards is that it is not fine.

Someone questions that, I am going to defend it. End of ****ing story.

What don’t you quit using what I’m saying out of context. I used my car as an example of what a stock auto can do some people like to know things like this kind of like how you like to throw up your 10sec cars with under 500rwhp. The reason I brought my car up as being one of the fastest stock autos on the boards is because your talking s**t to me about my car being slow. Well guess what if that’s the case every other one is too.

Once again you act as if it’s a sin to question you, you really need to get over your self. Like I said you go with your source I’ll go with mine. To me its really not that big of a deal and I don’t go around throwing that info out actually this is the first time.

Your not stating every car with 430-470rwho should run a 10 but I guess your just stating mine should? What it boils down to is you were pissed off I questioning your all mighty knowledge and you resorted to talking s**t, plain and simple.

Answer me this then about these 10sec cars:

Were they at full/stock weight?
What did these cars weigh stock?
Where they on stock suspension?
What were you 60’ ?
Where they on a 100% stock auto?


PS: WHERES THAT 11.70 SLIP?

I do not have Chris' 11.70 slip. I was there when he ran it. I am not asking him for it, just to please you...

 

[04YELLOWGT]

Here’s the thing I have not seen any loss in performance from my car it runs the same time consistently with the same 1.85-1.95 60’. wWhen I first got the blower I made 6 runs in one night and they were all 12.89-12.86 runs and even on different days it would run close to the same. It does the same with the current setup

My point is that there are TONS of people that race their autos and I’m on other boards also and I have NEVER seen any one talk about this. I would also imagine with the power my car is making I would have seen something by now.

And I guess what Im going to defend my point that my car and many others are holding up.


Why don’t you answer my questions about these 10sec cars.

 

[Darrin@BCA]

You all do realize that you can end the argument about the stall on the stock converter by doing the math, right?

K factor for the stock converter=155

Torque of engine= ~300ft/lb

k factor times the square root of torque= approx stall

sqrt of 300= ~17

155x17=2635

Easy as punch

My torque number above is just a little high but I pulled it off the top of my head. For perspective, keep in mind that with a 155 K factor converter that the engine would have to have less than 140ft/lb for the converter to stall at 1800rpm. Please don't confuse rear wheel torque numbers from dyno graphs and try to apply that either. This has to be based off of flywheel torque. These engines have more than 140ft/lb there. less than 300 I am sure, but definitely more than 140.

lets use 225 for another example

sqrt of 225=15

155x15=2325

Darrin

 

[TGJ]

You all do realize that you can end the argument about the stall on the stock converter by doing the math, right?

K factor for the stock converter=155

Torque of engine= ~300ft/lb

k factor times the square root of torque= approx stall

sqrt of 300= ~17

155x17=2635

Easy as punch

My torque number above is just a little high but I pulled it off the top of my head. For perspective, keep in mind that with a 155 K factor converter that the engine would have to have less than 140ft/lb for the converter to stall at 1800rpm. Please don't confuse rear wheel torque numbers from dyno graphs and try to apply that either. This has to be based off of flywheel torque. These engines have more than 140ft/lb there. less than 300 I am sure, but definitely more than 140.

lets use 225 for another example

sqrt of 225=15

155x15=2325

Darrin

Darrin,

I forgot that equation that you presented but I knew you could do that...

99 - 04 Mustang GT's were rated at 260 HP @ 5250 RPM, 302 FT/LB TQ @ 4000 RPM. Your original equation is close...

 

[TGJ]

Here’s the thing I have not seen any loss in performance from my car it runs the same time consistently with the same 1.85-1.95 60’. wWhen I first got the blower I made 6 runs in one night and they were all 12.89-12.86 runs and even on different days it would run close to the same. It does the same with the current setup

My point is that there are TONS of people that race their autos and I’m on other boards also and I have NEVER seen any one talk about this. I would also imagine with the power my car is making I would have seen something by now.

And I guess what Im going to defend my point that my car and many others are holding up.


Why don’t you answer my questions about these 10sec cars.

Are you sure your TC did hold up? Your tranny has gone south, so YOU say. Perhaps and most likely, your TC is burnt up and took the tranny out. I will answer your questions when you show me your pictures of your stock TC's internals to verify that it didn't go south...

 

[04YELLOWGT]

Are you sure your TC did hold up? Your tranny has gone south, so YOU say. Perhaps and most likely, your TC is burnt up and took the tranny out. I will answer your questions when you show me your pictures of your stock TC's internals to verify that it didn't go south...

Actually I just talked to them today and they said they don't know how I even drove the car up there. They said every clutch was pretty much demolished. LOL I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was that bad. The car never really drove bad but the way they were talking that if I made one more track pass it would have prolly finished the trans.

I asked them about the TC they said it showed signs of wear, what ever that means, but they said they have definitely seen worse. They told that it had quite a few mile left on it but my trans on the other hand was prolly in the negatives. LOL

 

[hotmustang331]

Proof:

Here it is again. From my 1997 Ford Repair CD. Stall Speed test for a 1997 Mustang Auto.

If that is too small, the big version...

I guess that proves that I am right on the stall speed...

Thanks

 

[auto02]

i can't believe the number of people that said spend the money on something besides a converter,never ever listen to these IDIOTS again!!!!!!!my 02 gt ran 8.90's with the stock converter,9.0-9.1's with a dirtydog converter and 8.40's with a pi 3200.all of my mod's are pi 3200,3.73's,off-road x-pipe,pulley's and sct x3 with an e-mail tune from tony whetstone!!!!!!!!n/a my best run's were at sgmp and that was an 8.39@81 and [email protected] videos are on streetfire to prove it!

 

[fobra559]

How much did your pi cost in parts and labor?