Ok i bought a 88, it was misfiring when i bought it but i knew what it was, but now it lacks power. He had 24lb injectors on it but i swapped those to 19 because i think it flooded it. Driving maybe 30 mins and then shut off, when you go to start it again it wouldnt start. Had 38lbs of FP and i had spark at the wires. It took me 2hrs to think spin it over without fuel pump on, and what do you know it started. But now with 19 lbs injectors it to me lacks power, does the same fuel thing, and sounds like its missing while driving sometimes. Ive checked coil-had power, eec relay-had power, igniton-had power, it runs fine sometimes then it acts up. Noid lights-flashed. Next on my list is testing tfi, ect. Might throw FP regulator at it, ignition switch, distributor id like to know if anyones had this problem or heard of it
Weird 88gt Problem
- Thread starter 69idi
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Does the problem happen when the engine is warm or cold?
Does the car have a Mass Air conversion?
What other mods does the engine have?
have you visually checked spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor?
Cylinder balance test:
Revised 25 March 2012 to add necessity allowing the KOEO tests to finish before starting the engine and the need for a properly functioning IAB/IAC to run the cylinder balance test.
The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinder with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Cylinder balance test
If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1400-1600 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Let it finish the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) code dump. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. Remember to keep the clutch pedal (5 speed) depressed to the floor during the test. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
Does the car have a Mass Air conversion?
What other mods does the engine have?
have you visually checked spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor?
Cylinder balance test:
Revised 25 March 2012 to add necessity allowing the KOEO tests to finish before starting the engine and the need for a properly functioning IAB/IAC to run the cylinder balance test.
The computer has a cylinder balance test that helps locate cylinder with low power output. You’ll need to dump the codes out of the computer and make sure that you have the A/C off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission in neutral. Fail to do this and you can’t do the engine running dump codes test that allows you to do the cylinder balance test.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C clutch depressed to the floor, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Here's how to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and drivability problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, clutch depressed to the floor and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Cylinder balance test
If you have idle or IAC/IAB problems and the engine will not idle on its own without mechanically adjusting the base idle speed above 625-750 RPM, this test will fail with random cylinders pointed out every time it runs. The IAC/IAB must be capable of controlling the engine speed to run in the 1400-1600 RPM range. Playing with the base idle speed by adjusting it upwards will not work, the computer has to be able to control the engine speed using the IAC/IAB.
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Let it finish the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) code dump. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. Remember to keep the clutch pedal (5 speed) depressed to the floor during the test. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire. Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug, you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again, the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test, you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black & white electrical connectors located by the EGR.
How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading. Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent. If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would be a good tool to add to your collection.
With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good & what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from 140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that have more than 10% difference.
See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow down type compression tester.
Do the cylinder balance test I posted. It will dump the codes as part of the process. Post the codes you get and I will post the 5.0 Mustang specific causes and fixes for them.
Be sure that you get codes, no codes and then no code 11, and you have severe computer problems. A perfectly functioning system will always get a code 11, it the everything is OK code.
Be sure that you get codes, no codes and then no code 11, and you have severe computer problems. A perfectly functioning system will always get a code 11, it the everything is OK code.
I did the test procedure like you stated and looked in book, my test light turns on when keys off but when you turn the koeo nothing koer same thing. But i tested maf i got a ref of 12,volts and injectors are pulsing so how can computer be bad? I was thinking of putting fuel pump on a 20 amp switch
69idi said:
Don't mess up the wiring on a perfectly good car just because you don't understand how it is supposed to work. Troubleshoot the problem and fix right the first time. Roadkill engineering something that's broke is not a good idea.
Computer will not go into diagnostic mode on 86-90 model 5.0 Mustangs
Disconnect the battery positive terminal before making any resistance checks.
The voltage drop in the ground cable will cause incorrect resistance readings.
How it is supposed to work:
The black/white wire (pin 46) is signal ground for the computer. It provides a dedicated ground for the EGR, Baro, ACT, ECT, & TPS sensors as well as the ground to put the computer into self test mode. If this ground is bad, none of the sensors mentioned will work properly. That will severely affect the car's performance. You will have hard starting, low power and drivability problems. Since it is a dedicated ground, it passes through the computer on its way to the computer main power ground that terminates at the battery pigtail ground. It should read less than 1.5 ohms when measured from anyplace on the engine harness with the battery pigtail ground as the other reference point for the ohmmeter probe.
What sometimes happens is that the test connector black/white wire gets jumpered to power which either burns up the wiring or burns the trace off the pc board inside the computer. That trace connects pins 46 to pins 40 & 60.
The STI (Self Test Input ) is jumpered to ground to put the computer into test mode. Jumpering it to power can produce unknown results, including damage to the computer. The ohm test simply verifies that there are no breaks in the wiring between the test connector and the computer input.
How to test the wiring :
With the power off, measure the resistance between the computer test ground (black/white wire) on the self test connector and battery ground. You should see less than 1.5 ohms.
If that check fails, remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector. There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place. Measure the resistance between the black/white wire and pin 46 on the computer wiring connector: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that 1.5 ohms is a wiring problem. If it reads 1.5 ohms or less, then the computer is suspect. On the computer, measure the resistance between pin 46 and pins 40 & 60: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that that and the computer’s internal ground has failed, and the computer needs to be repaired or replaced.
See http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/749974-computer-issue.html#post7490537 for Joel5.0’s fix for the computer internal signal ground.
If the first ground check was good, there are other wires to check. Measure the resistance between the STI computer self test connector (red/white wire) and pin 48 on the computer main connector: it should be less than 1.5 ohms. More that 1.5 ohms is a wiring problem
The following is a view from the computer side of the computer wiring connector.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Check out the diagram and notice all the places the black/white wire goes. Almost every sensor on the engine except the MAF is connected to it.
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine
See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
I am sorry but I don't have you DVM/Multimeter in hand: your readings make very little sense. I suggest you get the manual out and read it carefully to determine the difference between an open circuit and a complete short.
Automotive circuits are mostly simple stuff: a power source, a connection path, a control device, a load, and a ground.
The battery/alternator is the positive power source.
The wire and fuses are the connection path.
Control devices are switches, relays and sensors.
A load is a light, motor, solenoid or heater element.
In automotive circuits, grounds are the return path so the electrical power can flow from the load to the negative side of the power source.
Electricity flows like water:
Voltage is like pressure,
Current in amps is like volume,
Resistance is like the kink you put in a garden hose to decrease the pressure or volume.
Power is pressure multiplied by volume or voltage multiplied by current (amps)
Digest that, and you just got the first 3 days of Electricity 101.
Use some jumper wires (connection path and ground) to hook up a switch (control device), a battery (power source), a light bulb (load). Now make the light turn on and off with the switch.
That's the electrical lab for the first week of Electricity 101. People pay hundreds of dollars and sit in hard chairs in a stuffy classroom to learn what I just told you for free. So smile, you just got an expensive lesson for free
For free automotive electrical training, see Automotive Training and Resource Site . I have personally reviewed the material and it is very good. If you are new to automotive electrical troubleshooting, I highly recommend you spend a hour or so going through the material. You'll save at least that much time troubleshooting problems.
Step 1.) Find the instruction book that came with your Multimeter. Read it and familiarize yourself with how it works and how use it. If you lost the book or didn’t get one with it, do a Google search on the web to find the manufacturer’s web site & download a copy of the manual.
Step 2. ) Make sure that you know what test lead plugs into which jacks on the Multimeter. There are usually several different jacks on most Multimeters, and they have different functions. Make sure that your battery(s) in the Multimeter are good: if you have any doubts, replace the battery(s).
Step 3.) Once you are sure that the Multimeter is functional and you have the leads plugged into the jacks for Ohms ( the upside down “U” symbol), do some simple measurements to make sure that you know how to use it correctly. Set the switch to the lowest range and touch the leads together: you should not see “nothing” but you should see 1.0-0.3 ohms. Measure a 60 watt light bulb: cold it will measure about 17.5 Ohms. It you measure it while it is hot, the reading will be greater.
Step 4.) Make several test measurements using the ohms function and the DC volts function. Remember all resistance measurements must be done with the power off the circuit. This avoids false readings and possible damage to the ohmmeter.. Repeat steps 3 & 4 until you are sure that you can do it without making any mistakes.
Step 5.) Then see http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...epairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c1528006916f and carefully study ALL the information under the Heading Chassis Electrical, Basic Electricity – Understanding & Troubleshooting
Automotive circuits are mostly simple stuff: a power source, a connection path, a control device, a load, and a ground.
The battery/alternator is the positive power source.
The wire and fuses are the connection path.
Control devices are switches, relays and sensors.
A load is a light, motor, solenoid or heater element.
In automotive circuits, grounds are the return path so the electrical power can flow from the load to the negative side of the power source.
Electricity flows like water:
Voltage is like pressure,
Current in amps is like volume,
Resistance is like the kink you put in a garden hose to decrease the pressure or volume.
Power is pressure multiplied by volume or voltage multiplied by current (amps)
Digest that, and you just got the first 3 days of Electricity 101.
Use some jumper wires (connection path and ground) to hook up a switch (control device), a battery (power source), a light bulb (load). Now make the light turn on and off with the switch.
That's the electrical lab for the first week of Electricity 101. People pay hundreds of dollars and sit in hard chairs in a stuffy classroom to learn what I just told you for free. So smile, you just got an expensive lesson for free
For free automotive electrical training, see Automotive Training and Resource Site . I have personally reviewed the material and it is very good. If you are new to automotive electrical troubleshooting, I highly recommend you spend a hour or so going through the material. You'll save at least that much time troubleshooting problems.
Step 1.) Find the instruction book that came with your Multimeter. Read it and familiarize yourself with how it works and how use it. If you lost the book or didn’t get one with it, do a Google search on the web to find the manufacturer’s web site & download a copy of the manual.
Step 2. ) Make sure that you know what test lead plugs into which jacks on the Multimeter. There are usually several different jacks on most Multimeters, and they have different functions. Make sure that your battery(s) in the Multimeter are good: if you have any doubts, replace the battery(s).
Step 3.) Once you are sure that the Multimeter is functional and you have the leads plugged into the jacks for Ohms ( the upside down “U” symbol), do some simple measurements to make sure that you know how to use it correctly. Set the switch to the lowest range and touch the leads together: you should not see “nothing” but you should see 1.0-0.3 ohms. Measure a 60 watt light bulb: cold it will measure about 17.5 Ohms. It you measure it while it is hot, the reading will be greater.
Step 4.) Make several test measurements using the ohms function and the DC volts function. Remember all resistance measurements must be done with the power off the circuit. This avoids false readings and possible damage to the ohmmeter.. Repeat steps 3 & 4 until you are sure that you can do it without making any mistakes.
Step 5.) Then see http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...epairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c1528006916f and carefully study ALL the information under the Heading Chassis Electrical, Basic Electricity – Understanding & Troubleshooting
Well i did alot of resistance checks and voltage drops in school, and reading some books that i got from there. My friend at autozone let me borrow a reman computer and to me that fixed it. but in a few days if it does the same thing i got a guy in ga that will send me a wiring harness. Cus i thought that if you didnt have resitance in circuits you have a break somwhere. Going between 464060 to me would mean the ground in the computer is not complete.
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