What do YOU guys think my car is worth?

[Project 77]

Project77:

Who put the big chip on your shoulder?

I have never met you and don't know you, but you seem to take all of this very personally. It's just a forum for discussion, nothing more. I don't believe anyone has openly criticized your opinions, and that is not what this post is intended to be about.

When I got serious about IIs again about 9 years ago, you couldn't hardly give a II away. I have bought Cobra IIs as low as $150, missing only the front spoiler/valance.

The average II buyer buys one because they like the look, it's an affordable way to get a cool older Ford, it brings back memories, whatever. I don't believe that the usual II buyer ever really pays any attention to what the "book" value as determined by any of the handful of price guides is. The KC mentioned is probably at the current level because somebody that read about them being a "future collectible" started researching the values, and stopped at that point.

As far as the demand increasing prices for cars and parts, yep, it will. Just like every other car anybody messes with. Looked at station wagons of the '60s lately? Couldn't give them away 20 years ago. The same is true of virtually every special interest car, the more people get interested, the higher the price goes. Same deal as before, more people want in at the entry level, the higher the price gets on increasingly rougher cars, while finished cars tend to stagnate at a certain level.

Would I pay 10 large for a II (yes, I do have it)? Nope, but I wouldn't pay it for a '57 chevy, or '70 Mustang, or any of a multitude of cars that regularly trade at that price.

It almost seems that you want II values to remain low from the tone of the last post. Then people cry about how much effort it takes to build a nice one, but nobody will give them what they think it's worth. It's a vicious circle.

If anybody is into IIs for the possible financial gain, they need their nut examined very closely.

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The preceding is the opinion of the author, and is not to be construed as an attack on anyone in particular.

I have nothing more to add really, this got way way out of hand. DO I want II values to remain low? I really don't care, I'm not buying a II to make money...LOL..It never worked out that way and as you suggested I would have to have my coconut examined. I guess in my mind I am stuck back in 94 when i bought my first King, a brown 4 speed car in NICE shape for $1500. It FLOORS me how much the prices have risen in 10 years. I will agree with COBRAMAN on one aspect, if I HAD 10K I would buy a nice II, and probably not look at anything else.

 

[LXXVICOBRA]

I'll take that post as direct to me as the "so called" expert. WHat you are suggesting will do a lot of things. Sure, try to sell it for $10K,and maybe it does sell, now everyone with a II that needs "restored" figures they can ask more money for a car that was a $1500 car. Then when NOS parts command an even higher price because they are being sought out, and guys like Phil and Gary can really hammer everyone on price, everyone will be up in arms and cry foul. Can ANY of you honestly say that you sought out a $10K car when you bought your II? better yet, how many of you have that kind of cash, or would part with that kind of cash for a II, cobra or King? Sal, your car is very nice, interior and engine compartment are beautiful, this was not intended to get ugly.

Well, you needn't get all worked up...because you took my post all wrong. But, looking back on your posts, it almost seems you wanted someone to take exception to what you said. Certainly, you half expected it. The comment about "experts" wasn't directed at YOU at all, but rather those that compile sales figures and attempt to set market value in the first place...along with those in the print media that think II's are unworthy of the Mustang name.

I doubt that higher prices for very good to excellent original or restored cars will have much bearing on prices of II's in need of total restorations. Prices paid for junk only can only go so far, unless the buyer is an idiot. It may however, help increase the value of clean Ghias, plain notchbacks and fastbacks that dont have V8's and special trim packages. This is something that would be a good thing, possibly increasing overall interest in obtaining clean used II's. Cars maintaing a low value or poor image of worth, don't do anything to attract the interest of repro manufactuers and vendors, or buyers. That won't change either, if cars continue being sold at 25 cents on the dollar, and when prices to reproduce parts allow no room for profit due to low demand.

As for the parts issue in general....guys like Phil are already hammering everyone by exorbitant resale of parts they pay top dollar for at auction. Keeping the values of II's low, hasn't deterred him from inflating prices for parts. I mean, can it reallly get any worse than it is now? Here's a guy that in my mind, is almost singlehandedly driving up parts prices with is bidding and/or reselling methods...so why shouldn't owners that have paid dearly for them as a result, not attempt to recoup the same with the sale of their cars?
The days of cheap NOS II parts have been over for some time, no thanks to people like this and the growing popularity of internet sale sites like Ebay. This is why it's almost impossible to find anything decent anymore at swap meets. Vendors know they can reach serious bidders worldwide with half the effort. People that previously had no idea of a parts retail value can now determine that in seconds. And there are far more suckers buying anything worldwide, than you'll find on any given day at a swap meet or flea market. Unfortunatly, II owners have few other sources for obtaining many parts, creating a situation where we are paying premium prices for parts, to restore cars that dont command premium dollars when sold.

Now, about seeking out that 10K car...
There are many people that would seek nothing less. With II parts becoming outrageously priced in addition to many being simply impossible to obtain, paying a premium price for an outstanding car just might be the way to go, perhaps cheaper in the long run at this point. These cars can't be built from a catalog, cars in rough shape really aren't worth restoring, due to the parts situation.

I guess the summary of my posistion is this....most any model car that is 80-100% correctly restored, in good running condititon should command 5K. There's no reason that premium examples of most all makes and models shouldnt do even better, especially when they are so scarce. And about those price guides...if I had a true trailer queen II, I'd be insulted to think it was only worth 7K...especially when restored plain jane 1st gen cars often go for far more.

 

[Project 77]

OK...I've had a night to mull all of this over and Here is what I THINK....I may be wrong but...I know I am stuck in a time warp, and as much as I hate to admit it, the days of finding a cheap II are long gone. I'm like anyone else, I love finding a deal, I don't want to rob anyone. I love my Mustang II's like the rest of you, but it gets discouraging, knowing if i need somethng as simple as a motor mount i need to call 1 of 2 people. FOr all of you who think the parts game is as bad as it's going to get, guess again. I don't know how to say this without sounding like an ass, some of you know where I am coming from when i mention Second Generaton Mustangs, and Gary Baum. I know we all complain about Phil and his hold on EBay and Mustang II parts, call Gary, ask for a part. He has it, and he'll tell you he has it, used and NOS and if you ask for an NOS part there's a good chance he won't sell it to you. What he claims is he may need it for his Mach 1, when in reality what Gary is doing is hoarding parts. He's waiting for the day that Mustang II's explode onto the scene, and people are buying them up because they are reasonably priced, and are classic cars. the last time I called gary i needed a door, no door panel, no glass or even hardware, basically a shell...$300 for a used one that didn't have much rust on it. I know you guys will all fire back at me he has every right to do what he is doing, and I know he does,if Gary wants to never sell another part to anyone ever again that's his right.That's why i buy from Phil. this got way of topic, and out of hand. If it seems like i took offense personally, maybe i did, my fault, it just all leads back the the frustration of trying to find a nice car for under $7k. Is it wrong to think that a car such as Sal's could be had for say $5,000-$5500? I'm not talking parts, JUST car.

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

OK...I've had a night to mull all of this over and Here is what I THINK....I may be wrong but...I know I am stuck in a time warp, and as much as I hate to admit it, the days of finding a cheap II are long gone. I'm like anyone else, I love finding a deal, I don't want to rob anyone

Very well put.

It continues to blow me away how much cars and parts that were cheap 10 years ago are now.

Like others have pointed out, the days of cheap NOS II parts are long gone.

I don't think 5000-5500 is all that out of line for Sal's car, but I have not seen it in person, so it's tough to say (quite possibly more). If a guy has to hire the paintwork out, it'd be tough to pay much more than that without breaking the bank. It'll be expensive to get a QUALITY repaint with striping, which the car deserves. I know I see rough cars all the time that people ask way more for than they're worth (nobody on here, as far as I know). 3-4K for a car that needs everything is way too much, but it seems the asking prices are hovering there (see earlier post re: everybody wants in at the entry level) .

I can still find sheetmetal reasonably easy, so don't discount the network of other II owners when looking for parts. I've scrapped probably 6 pairs of doors after holding them for several years.It's nice, I guess, to have Phil and the like to turn to as a last resort, but I wouldn't make it my first stop. And I just bought a set of 302 mounts from my local Ford dealer. The left is disco'd, but the right is still a good number. The main difference is that the right doesn't have the nut on the back, pretty easy to add or work around.

I'll offer this unsolicited advice: Think long and hard about what is really the most important part of a II that you seek. If it's good sheetmetal and interior, I wouldn't let the engine stuff turn me off a deal. Stock rebuilds of a 302 aren't all that expensive, especially when compared to body/paint work. Buy the best chassis you can find, and build the rest your way. Surely somebody local would be willing to offer assistance/advice on parts you're not experienced/comfortable with.

Best of luck on finding "the" car!

 

[Project 77]

Very well put.

It continues to blow me away how much cars and parts that were cheap 10 years ago are now.

Like others have pointed out, the days of cheap NOS II parts are long gone.

I don't think 5000-5500 is all that out of line for Sal's car, but I have not seen it in person, so it's tough to say (quite possibly more). If a guy has to hire the paintwork out, it'd be tough to pay much more than that without breaking the bank. It'll be expensive to get a QUALITY repaint with striping, which the car deserves. I know I see rough cars all the time that people ask way more for than they're worth (nobody on here, as far as I know). 3-4K for a car that needs everything is way too much, but it seems the asking prices are hovering there (see earlier post re: everybody wants in at the entry level) .

I can still find sheetmetal reasonably easy, so don't discount the network of other II owners when looking for parts. I've scrapped probably 6 pairs of doors after holding them for several years.It's nice, I guess, to have Phil and the like to turn to as a last resort, but I wouldn't make it my first stop. And I just bought a set of 302 mounts from my local Ford dealer. The left is disco'd, but the right is still a good number. The main difference is that the right doesn't have the nut on the back, pretty easy to add or work around.

I'll offer this unsolicited advice: Think long and hard about what is really the most important part of a II that you seek. If it's good sheetmetal and interior, I wouldn't let the engine stuff turn me off a deal. Stock rebuilds of a 302 aren't all that expensive, especially when compared to body/paint work. Buy the best chassis you can find, and build the rest your way. Surely somebody local would be willing to offer assistance/advice on parts you're not experienced/comfortable with.

Best of luck on finding "the" car!

very well said...I had a shot at a 76 that looks identical to Sal's for $3000. I postd here about the inbalance weight being off and stuff. I was scared off by the weight being off and the work/cost involved fixing it, I should have known better. the body of the car was very nice, the interior while needing work was decent. You hit the nail right n the head and so did Wart, bodies of these cars are very hard to find, 302 rebuilds are very easy to come by, and this had a roller HO 5.0 so a 331 or 347 would have been feesable. I called my Local machine shop and asked what it would cost to have the weight changed from 28 to 50 Oz. and they told me $38. lesson learned...

 

[Power Surge]

I want to thank everyone for the input. I have decided to sell the car, and the asking price is $6000. This will be for the car itself, none of the NOS extra parts that have not been installed. If anyone here is interested, PM me. I will give you guys a few days, then I will put it on ebay if it does not sell. I will put a $7000 buy it now, with a $6k reserve. I think that's fair.