Where to start?

[barthy00GT]

I'm thinking about Faking a Boss 429... Main reason being that my 2000 GT will not compete with my friends 67 SS camaro with a LS6 built to all hell.

First off where is a good place to starting looking for a 68-70 Fastback in desent condition. Miles don't mater obiously and I don't want somthing that is in complet ruins. As far as the motor goes what is the best way of building it up. One of my friends knows where I can pick up a 429, but I'm use to working on newer motors and will not have a clue where to start with parts. Another things is how big of a cam should i use (I still intend on using pump fuel)

Any Info. will be very helpful

2000 GT
Black with BLue Airbrushed flames

Motor
BBK full length headers
BBK Shorty X-pipe
Flowmaster American thunder series catback
BBK underdrive pullies
BBK cool air intake
BBK 75mm Throtle body

Looks
Chrome 18' 03 cobra rims
Chrome v/c
Steeda chin splinter
Cobra R Spoiler
Shaved emblems
95 Cobar R hood

Mis.
Hurst short throw
Ford racing aluminum drive line
Steeda strut tower brace
Steeda Subframe connectors
Steeda Cross Brace memberes
Steeda adjustable Swaybar
White face guages

 

[reenmachine]

First off, make a shorter sig.

You'll need a '69-'70 fastback if you're going to clone a Boss 429. There were none in '68. I must assume that you're going to clone the Boss in looks only, as to actually do it all the way would cost you big, big bucks. The Boss 9 engine ain't your standard 429...

 

[302 coupe]

Ditto on the shorter sig, if everybody listed every single mod, these pages would be extremely long.

As for the clone project, just try to find a solid 69 or 70 sportsroof(fastback) and swap in a regular 429 or 460. It will be a heavy beast up front, but its real easy to make power with a big block. Don't forget the appropriate tranny, probably C6, and 9 inch rear with 31 spline axles and locker. Then you'll need to upgrade the brakes if you want to stop with any measure of safety. Then there's the matter of traction, which will be non-existent. I won't even get started on that right now. Its a do-able project, and has been done many times before, parts are easy to find if you know where to look. Just keep in mind that there's alot more involved than just a motor swap(if you want to do it right). If you have the money, buy one that is already setup for a BB, in 69 and 70 the BB's were 390's and 428's though. I'm not sure if the FE motor mounts will work on a 385 series BB though, the tranny should bolt up fine, and you'd already have a 9" rear, stiffer springs, maybe disc brakes up front, all that jazz. BB equipped cars normally have a substantially higher intial price tag though, but they can save headache and expense later on. Lot's of unknowns and variables to take into account here.....

 

[stangman67]

Do you want the look of an older car? Or just to beat the camaro? If thats the case, do some real work to the GT. Supercharge, gears, just some real performance parts, not exhaust and intake stuff. I think you should be able to get the GT into the 11's with some nice suspension and other odds and ends, for alot cheaper than restoring/building a classic. Or sell the GT and buy one that you like so you dont need to spend 3 years restoring it.

 

[Darkhorse845]

Start with the 429.

 

[barthy00GT]

Well my GT is my show car which is getting a blower in spring, gears if my friend ever sells me his 3:73s, and posbily cams. I don't want that one to be a strick drag car. Plus I've always liked the Boss. I don't plan on getting it together in a mater of a few months. This will be a several year project. The only thing that will apear to be a real Boss is going to be the body. The motor will be built up and the under body will be anything but factory. Right now I think I'll just be buying the 429 and building that up (or should I go with a differn't motor?) I'm just trying to check things out right now about what people think about my plans that know way more about these cars than me.

I also thought that the 428s were generaly cobra jets, which never came in the Boss? Please correct me if i'm wrong

 

[1320stang]

The 429/460 are both 385 series motors. I'd go with a 460 block and stroke it well into the 500" sizes. No sustitute for cubic inches you know.

You also know your talking about a $20k plus project as well? You'll have over $5k in the motor if your doing it right. Aluminum Cobra Jet heads, cast stroker crank, steel rods, Dominator carb, nice single plane aluminum intake, etc.

 

[1320stang]

Actually, now that I think about it, I know of a pretty Burgandy metallic red '70 Mach I that is missing the rocker plates that say Mach I on them that has a roll bar with a 460/C6 combo in it now that you could pick up for about $8500 in central OK. It has a bottle on it, but I'm not sure its been run. Runs 11's in the quarter, Weld wheels, could be tagged and registered to be street legal as well.

 

[Edbert]

Actually, now that I think about it, I know of a pretty Burgandy metallic red '70 Mach I that is missing the rocker plates that say Mach I on them that has a roll bar with a 460/C6 combo in it now that you could pick up for about $8500 in central OK. It has a bottle on it, but I'm not sure its been run. Runs 11's in the quarter, Weld wheels, could be tagged and registered to be street legal as well.

Thats the route to take! Find a car that runs but needs some work, yet has the fundamentals. The one 1320 mentioned already has the BBF/385/Lima motor(429/460), they are cheaper to build big cubes/power with than the older FE motors (390/427/428). Since it is running you can add to it incrementally.

If you wanna beat a tricked LS6 you are gonna need some power AND traction. Those can cost a lot. There's many folks with ~$25K+ into their cars that run high 11-low 12s aound here. But there's some that can run 10s with only ~$15K too.

 

[Stang_1973]

Thats the route to take! Find a car that runs but needs some work, yet has the fundamentals. The one 1320 mentioned already has the BBF/385/Lima motor(429/460), they are cheaper to build big cubes/power with than the older FE motors (390/427/428). Since it is running you can add to it incrementally.

If you wanna beat a tricked LS6 you are gonna need some power AND traction. Those can cost a lot. There's many folks with ~$25K+ into their cars that run high 11-low 12s aound here. But there's some that can run 10s with only ~$15K too.

I agree with this. The 8,500 for the car mentioned in the prevoise post sounds like a kick ass deal. Especially for a car already in the 11's.

Anyway how fast is your friends Camaro? What kind of times is he running?

 

[barthy00GT]

I think I'm making the wrong impression... let me straighten this all out. I'm not looking to exactly beat it. I just want to make a my very own Boss with more bang. I just want to make a mean car that can play with him (winner doesn't matter) the Camaro just needs a paint job and another one of my friends wants to get a Stingray vett with an LS6. We just are tossing around the idea of rockin the streets in our little town of 18,000 people that are packed with rice rockets that don't have jack done to them. We are thinkin it would be awsome to roll down the street with old school cars that no one would mess with. I'm just thinkin about useing the 429 cuz the Boss came with one. Sure the motor would be built up alittle, but i'm not looking at pulling more than 700-800hp.
As far as the Camaro's times there are none as of right now, because the motor is not copletly broken in. He has a rev limiter 1,800rs under his true redline till he gets about 1,000 miles on it. The motor basicaly has been rebuilt except he is running stock pistons and crank (i think that is it) because the pistons are 1,000 for 4 and he saw no point in changing them beause they are very good ones (don't know the name of them) He has a 50 over cam. notched pistons 12:1 compresions, runs (114octain). With shifting at 5,000 he has already beat a 94 Viper pretty bad. I believe 10 inch wide wheels with will pick the front end off the gound from a 25mph roll. 4:55 gears, slap shifter, scatter gaurd, some drive line catcher incase it snaps or disconects. all in all he spent 10,000 on the motor with 3,000 being just into labor. He has about 10 pages of things that have been done to it and i could get a full listing if you guys are realy courisous about it.

 

[1320stang]

Huh? 700-800 HP N/A is gonna cost you big bucks ($15k?) and won't run on pump gas. Just a good body to start out with is gonna run you around $5k. What is your buddy's redline after breaking in? Do you think ProStock motors are broken in for 100 miles before they're driven? He shouldn't have to break in a performance motor like that, there's a website dedicated to it, but I don't remember what it is and also, thats a whole different can of worms. $2000 for a set of pistons? I don't think so unless they're full on custom. Stock 12:1 pistons? Very good ones? Don't think so there either. What kind of tires is he using to pull the front wheels at a 25 mph roll? Have you seen it pull them? Does this Camaro have a roll bar or a cage in it? If it runs as you say, you're not going to get a time slip as they won't let you run it down the track without the right safety equipment.

I'm not trying to call BS here, but I see some sort of outrageous stuff here that if its true, we're not getting the Paul Harvey of it (the rest of the story).

How old are you guys and what do you do for a living to complete these projects your doing?

 

[Route666]

What is a 50 over cam?

I'd say build a 351W if you want performance. Sure a bigger block could make power, but it's going to be heavier, which takes back some of the power and takes away from cornering ability. a 393 stroker should give you plenty of horses. Not 700 to 800, but I'm not sure you truly understand how much that really is. 400HP in a classic would thrash all the unmolested rice rockets in your town.

 

[WORTH]

Ummmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nevermind, bav will slap me again

 

[jbsteven]

Well my GT is my show car which is getting a blower in spring, gears if my friend ever sells me his 3:73s, and posbily cams. I don't want that one to be a strick drag car. Plus I've always liked the Boss. I don't plan on getting it together in a mater of a few months. This will be a several year project. The only thing that will apear to be a real Boss is going to be the body. The motor will be built up and the under body will be anything but factory. Right now I think I'll just be buying the 429 and building that up (or should I go with a differn't motor?) I'm just trying to check things out right now about what people think about my plans that know way more about these cars than me.

I also thought that the 428s were generaly cobra jets, which never came in the Boss? Please correct me if i'm wrong

Sorry to say this but I am a little confused. You state you have a show car (I read into this that you have some money) but this show car is waiting for you to buy "gears" and other stuff from your friend. Can you define what you mean by a "show" car?

With the above being said now you want to build a Boss clone. Do you realize what all this kind of stuff costs?


Sorry to pull your chain a little but at first glance it seems like you are doing the pie in the sky thing with us. I could be wrong though.

 

[HistoricMustang]

Worth, me too.

I been "locked" so many times I feel like I have been in jail.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[barthy00GT]

my bad, it's not the pistons that are that much it's the heads. I don't know too much about the cam, maby it is a 50 lobes (i'm just starting to learn about internals more so sorry if i'm messing things up.) The Camaro will redline at 6,800. As far as the break in i'm just going by what he told me. I'm probly wrong about hp. as well. I thought my Stang had about 260-280hp but when I got dyno papers back it was 244 Maby I'm off on the power thing 500hp sound more realistic? My number will probly be off cuz I'm only seen 1 dyno in person in my whole life and that was a 4 hour trip to a car show. The Camaro has 10 inch wide micky thompson rubber. I saw it pick up the front end. It wasn't much maby an inch or so. I was rollin beside him with my mustang.

As for my 2000 Being a show car it's not going to go to the big ones you guys are use too. I go to shows where there are probly 20 car in my class. They arn't anything huge and on top of that I end up get stuck in sport compact classes all the time and sence i put on the steeda chin splitner and redid the flames I'm yet to leave a show with less than 2 trophys. These shows are just for kids that put work into there cars for credit. I have all my mods listed on the top of the thread and it's nothing super specal.

As far as our jobs my buddie with the camaro works on oil rigs. The one that wants the stinger works on rigs too and for me I just work fast food, but save most every penny and stick it into my car. In the next month I will have my GT payed for and by spring it will be getting a Procharger. It's not like i make 50,000 a year, but it's just a hobby of mine to do cars up in my little town.

I'm sure some of this seems far fetched but I am serious about building up a 69 or 70 fastback to look like a Boss. As for the motor I just want it to toss out enough power to keep up with that camaro (considering it is one of the fastests street legal cars around here).

 

[Route666]

Cool, learning about technical workings and designing your own package is almost the most fun (imo) you can have with cars.

I see nothing wrong with the way he was breaking his engine in either, as long as he puts some ever-increasing load and rpms on the engine, it'll break in fine, no need to ring it's neck to break it in.

I too want to build a 69 sportsroof, and I've come to the conclusion I want to use a BOSS 429 scoop as well, for technical and aesthetic reasons.

 

[Edbert]

I'd say build a 351W if you want performance. Sure a bigger block could make power, but it's going to be heavier, which takes back some of the power and takes away from cornering ability.

If you put aluminum heads and intake on the 351W it will weigh almost the same as a stock 289. Replace the cast iron exhaust with headers and they are lighter

 

[Route666]

If you put aluminum heads and intake on the 351W it will weigh almost the same as a stock 289. Replace the cast iron exhaust with headers and they are lighter

I'm all for the 351W, I meant it would give better power to weight than a big block, and I agree, putting alloy heads on would be good weight reduction, and power makers to boot!