Shaolin Crane
Banned
Its cheaper to just put one in my mustang. That way i have a great car with a great engine.
Best poll ever! Engine types in fox
- Thread starter Boss 351
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Its cheaper to just put one in my mustang. That way i have a great car with a great engine.
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fiveohwblow
Official Member
- Jul 21, 2005
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Shaolin Crane
Banned
I just read the whole thread. Very interesting. The LSx arguments are hard to pass up. My buddy does LS swaps into old muscle cars and buys motor/harness/computer ls1s and 3s between 2500 and 4000 depending on what it came out of/ how many miles it has. I still refuse to do it even after helping him build a 420 rwhp Chevy II that weighs a lot less than my notch. It has run a best of 12.0 spinning, forgot mph.
With that said, it hurts me to admit that I am just over $5k into my 408 and the list of parts needed is still long. How easily could I have succumbed to peer pressure (believe me, there was lots) and just dropped in a LS that was sitting on a pallet in the corner? Hind sight - 20/20, gents.
"Best suited engine" boils down to personal preference, unfortunately. The only reason Im building the big W is because I thought I could afford it at the time and now Im in too far to turn back (no regrets though). Also thought I could prove that I could build more power, cheaper than the Chevy II. We'll see what happens at the track though.
I still get a chub when reading about other mild 408 builds like mine clicking off 10.50s and then driving home. I can hardly contain myself, as soon as I get back from this crap-arse job in Alaska, Im gonna get after it and get this FE-AL amalgamation to live. Helloooo torque!
- Collin
With that said, it hurts me to admit that I am just over $5k into my 408 and the list of parts needed is still long. How easily could I have succumbed to peer pressure (believe me, there was lots) and just dropped in a LS that was sitting on a pallet in the corner? Hind sight - 20/20, gents.
"Best suited engine" boils down to personal preference, unfortunately. The only reason Im building the big W is because I thought I could afford it at the time and now Im in too far to turn back (no regrets though). Also thought I could prove that I could build more power, cheaper than the Chevy II. We'll see what happens at the track though.
I still get a chub when reading about other mild 408 builds like mine clicking off 10.50s and then driving home. I can hardly contain myself, as soon as I get back from this crap-arse job in Alaska, Im gonna get after it and get this FE-AL amalgamation to live. Helloooo torque!
- Collin
WTF Nik???
There's no denying that the LS is a sweet motor. It's basically Windsor-like durability with an aluminum block, or Dart-block durability with the stock iron castings. Considering they were/are also available from the factory with more displacement, they're a pretty logical choice for a hot rodder.
Don't get me wrong, I still bleed Ford blue, but the LS is high on my list of engines that I would love to own someday. It's up there with the Flathead Ford, BBF, and pretty much any piston-driven aviation engine from WWII, haha.
My '86 will likely never see anything but Ford pushrod goodness, but that's not to say I won't ever own a different car with an LS in it.
Shaolin Crane
Banned
Me thinks corvette...There's no denying that the LS is a sweet motor. It's basically Windsor-like durability with an aluminum block, or Dart-block durability with the stock iron castings. Considering they were/are also available from the factory with more displacement, they're a pretty logical choice for a hot rodder.
Don't get me wrong, I still bleed Ford blue, but the LS is high on my list of engines that I would love to own someday. It's up there with the Flathead Ford, BBF, and pretty much any piston-driven aviation engine from WWII, haha.
My '86 will likely never see anything but Ford pushrod goodness, but that's not to say I won't ever own a different car with an LS in it.
Truth.
My next car is going to be something unique and obscure. Something that you don't see every day (like Mustangs and Corvettes, haha).
fiveohwblow
Official Member
- Jul 21, 2005
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This. It destroys me to see guys time and time again think the ls is something from the heavens. Engines are air pumps folks. Let me put this in a comprible terms for you to understand...Ls motors are 351 with trick flows already installed with aluminum blocks.... THERE IS NO SECRETS TO PUSHROD ENGINES, especially in factory ones. It's a relative combination of compression, airflow, cam spec and stroke. Bam.
The ONLY SINGLE advantage to an ls is that it is aluminum. That's it. The ford 4.6's can handle 1,000 plus Hp with different internals.
It just ***king Kills me to see people think Chevy has figured a magic trick out. It's just buying horsepower for cheaper, not building it. PERIOD.
Shaolin Crane
Banned
Still got those marks in your driveway?
like a supra?
I like vettes, i'd love to build one to thrash on a road course. If i like i car i dont care if its over rated or if everyone has one, **** if i did, i wouldnt own a mustang(s)
Shaolin Crane
Banned
Its more then aluminum, its also size, a 4.6 is the size of a ****ing big block, and has that POS OHC goin on.
fiveohwblow
Official Member
- Jul 21, 2005
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When I put it in relative terms I used the 351. I understand they always use big displacement. Most guys aren't after 4 digit power and 700 will suffice which is the avg limit of the 351. So again, for the average guy, it's just buying instead of building.
Shaolin Crane
Banned
Not always the case again, I know for my use, a ford plant will never do what an LSx can. Unless i want to dump 6k on just the block, which im not down for. So i'll run a ls motor and be happy as a clam. Engine doesnt bother me, its a big piece of metal that drives the car.
Agreed. Mindless LS nutswingers who will just argue "it's better because it is" drive me insane.
The way I look at it, is that it's the modern Windsor that Ford should have built. Instead they gave us oversized (dimensionally), undersized (displacement-wise) overcomplicated, overconstrained OHC motors.
You can certainly build a Windsor to do everything an LS can do, and I'll be the first to tell you that. It's just that I fancy a fine engineering example of a pushrod V8, and the LS is definitely just that.
Still got those marks in your driveway?
like a supra?
I like vettes, i'd love to build one to thrash on a road course. If i like i car i dont care if its over rated or if everyone has one, **** if i did, i wouldnt own a mustang(s)
Haha hell no. Nah, my next car will be something obscure and pre-1980. Hell, it might even be pre-1960. I want a small, lightweight, coupe/convertible. Like a British roadster or something like that, maybe a Sunbeam or a early Triumph. Stuff an LS1 in it, and put some late-model Mustang suspension/brakes on it, but keep some pseudo-period-correct 15" wheels on it and dress it up to look like a Sunday racer. Use all junkyard parts and keep the overall budget under $10K. That'd be cool as hell.
I'm also equally attracted to building a no-rules hot rod, or some kind of off road vehicle. Who knows what I'll do, but it probably won't happen for a very long time, haha.
The marks have faded, I had fun in the vette, and if i was rich, id own one. so maybe over rated is a bad way to describe it. Over priced, cant afford one that i actually like, but someday maybe.
Just saying there are alot of cars i would buy or build, with an LSx motor, before i bought a vette.
We all know its not magic what chebby did with the LSwon. What people like about them is they got it right! They are an amazing motor, and it is exactly what every small block ever made hopes to be when it grows up. I mean come one, give them some credit. I think all the ford guys are a little mad deep down because the LS series of motors is everything we have been wishing ford would have done instead of going with modulars. I know i am. Imagine if the SBF had almost 20 more years of development under its belt.
Just saying there are alot of cars i would buy or build, with an LSx motor, before i bought a vette.
We all know its not magic what chebby did with the LSwon. What people like about them is they got it right! They are an amazing motor, and it is exactly what every small block ever made hopes to be when it grows up. I mean come one, give them some credit. I think all the ford guys are a little mad deep down because the LS series of motors is everything we have been wishing ford would have done instead of going with modulars. I know i am. Imagine if the SBF had almost 20 more years of development under its belt.
Shaolin Crane
Banned
I'm definitely in agreement with that, believe me im not mindless about the advantages of the lsx and the windsor. But not all engine fit every application, sure they can be made to do similar things but the edge goes to the lsx plain and simple.
fiveohwblow
Official Member
- Jul 21, 2005
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On this school of thought... You said it is 2500-4000 for a complete ls... Hmm.
A 94+ 351 (roller) from yard around here is $200 all day long. Machining is around $150 for it to be tanked, freshened etc etc... Rebuild for another $200 or so, nice set of heads for 1500 from summit or even cheaper on Craig's but well pretend all new, custom cam $350 and miscellaneous like gaskets and valve train another $300.
Block: 200
Mach shop: 150
Rebuild: 200
Heads: 1500
Cam: 350
Gaskets and other:300
Intake manifold: 400
3100 for a potent and stout combo, and that's if you aren't looking for deals. I'm guessing almost 400 to the wheels wouldn't be difficult.
I know there will be other costs associated, but if you ask Shaolin if he'd spend 1500 on run of the mill cylinder heads he will laugh at you. They can be had for half. That's why I am not accounting for other bs. 3k is a realistic budget if you used Craig's, or to have 90% if you're going all new/rebuilt.
oldskolbus
Founding Member
Sweet 86 NikwoaC. You know were are "antique status" now. 25 years old.
As for the debat I would love to go for a ride in my 86 coupe with a coyote eng in it.
As for the debat I would love to go for a ride in my 86 coupe with a coyote eng in it.
Shaolin Crane
Banned
ive been finding ls1's for 800-1000 lately, prices will drop more closer to the holidays too.
Also that combo will be no where near as reliable as an ls1 and heavier. I'm not saying ls1's have a place in every mustang, but they do in my mustang.
I'm also able to say ive probably built a stout sbf for about as cheap as its gonna happen. Figure around 1700-2000 including the blower, intake to oil pan. Anything can be done cheap, but you cant change design.
fiveohwblow
Official Member
- Jul 21, 2005
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Well this is my point. Again, the only magical design to the ls juan is above the pistons friend. Below this its all the same... so it can be done to a sbf, bbf etc. This is why I included different heads, intake and cam. And if you built yours for 2k you just proved my point, actually both of em. The ford is just heavier. No denying this fact.
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