Please educate a 5.0 noob... how much power can I make?
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I've done a few of these. 2 n/a 302s and 2 turbo 302-based motors. I've lived and breathed 5.0 mustangs for more than 10 years now. My suggestion is only one way to skin the cat. There are many many options available to you when building a 5.0, but this would be a damned good way to go:
With your 302 you can make 300+ rwhp with AFR 165s, 185s, or TFS heads. I would personally shy away from the 165s (which are my favorite 302 head) if you plan on stroking to 331 or 347 in the future. The AFR 185s are slightly on the large side for a 302, but with a custom cam, you can still take advantage of the extra flow. The TFS twisted Wedge heads would be an excellent selection for the 302 and would perform almost as well as AFR 165s. However, TFS TW heads have awesome porting potential and can, after being ported, flow as well any head on the market for any stroker you choose in the future.
If you go the 302 route with plans to port, my personal reccomendation for your specific application, considering you may go with a stroker later, would be AFR 185s with an Edelbrock RPM or RPM II intake manifold and a custom cam from Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, or Jay Allen (Ed Curtis is my personal preference). A 70mm TB, 75+mm MAF, 1.6 roller rockers, 30 lbs injectors, and 1 5/8" long-tube headers would round out the engine combo. Other bolt-ons like pulleys, and a cold-air intake are high value in the $:hp ratio.
All said and done, you're probably looking at around $3,500, but you've got higher end parts that will work very very well on a 302, and will work even better later when you go for more cubic inches. Keep in mind that if you're still running the stock 5.0 tranny, you've got a world class T5 that will break at the first thought of a power-shift, and will not last long behind a 300 rwhp combo either way.
With the combo laid out above your peak number, depending on what you ask for in a cam, could be well over 300 rwhp. I made 320rwhp with a 302 that had a ported cobra intake, AFR 165 heads, and a custom cam (very mild street cam) from ed curtis. I think you'd make better peak power than I did with the combo I listed, but average power might not be.
With the same parts on a 347, I'd be looking for around 400 at the wheels. Only parts to change out would be the cam and the headers.
Good luck with whichever route you decide to go.
Chris
With your 302 you can make 300+ rwhp with AFR 165s, 185s, or TFS heads. I would personally shy away from the 165s (which are my favorite 302 head) if you plan on stroking to 331 or 347 in the future. The AFR 185s are slightly on the large side for a 302, but with a custom cam, you can still take advantage of the extra flow. The TFS twisted Wedge heads would be an excellent selection for the 302 and would perform almost as well as AFR 165s. However, TFS TW heads have awesome porting potential and can, after being ported, flow as well any head on the market for any stroker you choose in the future.
If you go the 302 route with plans to port, my personal reccomendation for your specific application, considering you may go with a stroker later, would be AFR 185s with an Edelbrock RPM or RPM II intake manifold and a custom cam from Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, or Jay Allen (Ed Curtis is my personal preference). A 70mm TB, 75+mm MAF, 1.6 roller rockers, 30 lbs injectors, and 1 5/8" long-tube headers would round out the engine combo. Other bolt-ons like pulleys, and a cold-air intake are high value in the $:hp ratio.
All said and done, you're probably looking at around $3,500, but you've got higher end parts that will work very very well on a 302, and will work even better later when you go for more cubic inches. Keep in mind that if you're still running the stock 5.0 tranny, you've got a world class T5 that will break at the first thought of a power-shift, and will not last long behind a 300 rwhp combo either way.
With the combo laid out above your peak number, depending on what you ask for in a cam, could be well over 300 rwhp. I made 320rwhp with a 302 that had a ported cobra intake, AFR 165 heads, and a custom cam (very mild street cam) from ed curtis. I think you'd make better peak power than I did with the combo I listed, but average power might not be.
With the same parts on a 347, I'd be looking for around 400 at the wheels. Only parts to change out would be the cam and the headers.
Good luck with whichever route you decide to go.
Chris
Thanks Chris.... you're the 3rd person to mention Ed Curtis to me.
If it turns out the motor is indeed a gt-40 motor w/ the heads and exploder intake manifold, should I bother doing a full upgrade? Or just throw a cam in it and beat it to death?
What rpm can the stock bottom end safely turn... specificially the rod bolts? I'm not talking about a quick 1/4 mile blast... I'm talking about living from 4000-7000 rpms... I'm thinking 6200ish is the limit stock right? And I know the stock setup power falls off drastically after 5000 rpm.
If it turns out the motor is indeed a gt-40 motor w/ the heads and exploder intake manifold, should I bother doing a full upgrade? Or just throw a cam in it and beat it to death?
What rpm can the stock bottom end safely turn... specificially the rod bolts? I'm not talking about a quick 1/4 mile blast... I'm talking about living from 4000-7000 rpms... I'm thinking 6200ish is the limit stock right? And I know the stock setup power falls off drastically after 5000 rpm.
If you go to a 2.02 intake valve in-line head like the AFR 185, your piston reliefs will have to be enlarged - not so with a TW head due to the moved valve position.
I'd get a custom cam for what you have and run it like you said. If your stuck with a stock ECM, 6250 is the reve limit and a custom cam will get you there. If you plan on a way to bypass the rev limiter, that's a whole new ball game.
I'd get a custom cam for what you have and run it like you said. If your stuck with a stock ECM, 6250 is the reve limit and a custom cam will get you there. If you plan on a way to bypass the rev limiter, that's a whole new ball game.
^ I guess I'm spoiled by the PCM I have w/ my Corvette where I can change anything. Can I not re-set the rev limiter in a mustang motor via tuning?
it takes a add-on tuning chip or a device that does the same thing but can be programmed by you - like a PMS for Anderson Ford Motorsport or a TwEECer.
Your intake is an Explorer intake. Its a factory ford peice. In the late 99 and early 00 01 Ford explorers and mercury mountaineers came equiped with 5.0, the upper intake is Ford built the lower intake is identical to the GT-40 lower. The heads on the Explorers were motor sport GT-40p iron heads. They flow better then the E7 heads that came on Mustangs. If you ever look at exhaust manifolds on the 5L explorers that is why they put a better performing head. I will say Ed curtis Ed curtis. FTI FTI FTI.
90_Red_LX
Member
I will 4th Ed Curtis. I probably wasted a lot of his time asking questions and not putting up money, but the man really knows his stuff and has done me extremely well. He went the extra mile for me, such as when I lost a head bolt washer and he had it there for me for the weekend. He also gave me tons of advice, and he made sure my cam was right when he got it from comp (which it wasn't the first time.) He's a very busy man and sort of hard to get in touch with at times, but I would wait the extra week to do business with the man. I bought probably 80-90% of my parts for my motor from him.
Tom is right. If you go 185s, you'll need valve reliefs in your pistons. The TWs won't need them unless you get too aggressive a cam. And, in the future, as mentioned before, you'll be able to have them ported to meet any goals you set.
It all depends on how you want the car to perform. You wanted to make 400hp before, and you just aren't going to do that with the parts you have. The stock rods on the bottom-end aren't the limiting factor, right now. It's the valve-train, and anyone you get a custom cam will be able to provide springs, and the right hardware you'll need to rev to the moon. With the right stuff I've run a stock bottom end to 6500 rpm, and because I'm a bit conservative that's personally where I'd draw the limit were I you. Your block is almost definitely of the 2-bolt main variety with otherwise stock internals and is probably a 50 oz balance motor. The kind of racing you're talking about will certainly be alright to that rpm without much risk. If you wanna rev higher, time for better internals...
Chris
It all depends on how you want the car to perform. You wanted to make 400hp before, and you just aren't going to do that with the parts you have. The stock rods on the bottom-end aren't the limiting factor, right now. It's the valve-train, and anyone you get a custom cam will be able to provide springs, and the right hardware you'll need to rev to the moon. With the right stuff I've run a stock bottom end to 6500 rpm, and because I'm a bit conservative that's personally where I'd draw the limit were I you. Your block is almost definitely of the 2-bolt main variety with otherwise stock internals and is probably a 50 oz balance motor. The kind of racing you're talking about will certainly be alright to that rpm without much risk. If you wanna rev higher, time for better internals...
Chris
And let me caveat that by saying without a cam meant to do it, you've got no business revving your current combo to that RPM.
Chris
Chris
Turns out the motor has GT-40 heads... will be picking it up this weekend so I can see if they're P's or not.
What kind of power can I make w/ a cam kit and mainfold w/ these heads?
What kind of power can I make w/ a cam kit and mainfold w/ these heads?
the general range would be 250-300 RWHP but the heads would need some massaging and good vavle train, the intake ported, and a well chosen cam for the upper end with those parts.
millhouse
Founding Member
Actually, most are going to save you at least 40lbs if not more over the stock castings. Even the somewhat heavy Eddy's should save nearly, if not more than that much. FYI, my twisted wedge heads weigh nearly half as much as the stock and gt40p heads (~25lbs a piece compared to 50lbs a piece).
Going to run a few events w/ the car and see how it feels... if it's too slow for my tastes then I'll most likely call Ed Curtis and go w/ a new top end package.
Part of me just wants to start building a 331 for fun on the side... and just take my time. We'll see.
Part of me just wants to start building a 331 for fun on the side... and just take my time. We'll see.
EDC
Founding Member
ronburgundy
Member
i'm surprised nobody is trying to talk you into boost. an s trim or novi will plant you in your seat at any thing above 3500 rpm. your engine is begging for abuse.
Ed.... I'm pretty sure this car has GT-40 heads... would it be worth it to simply go w/ a cam and new manifold for a decent bump? Or would I be wasting my time?Let's do it!
The 331 or 347 strokers are sweet...
Ed
It's a road race car so FI is out... more parts, more **** to break, more weight.
ronburgundy
Member
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