Took The Stang to the Shop Today

[kramer03gt]

Hey Guys!

Its been a while!.. well anyway I was wondering if I could get some insight or thoughts to some problems that have arrising after taking my stang to the shop today.

So to being I have been smelling a rotten egg smell under accel. So i took it into the shop to have it diagnosed and after a 130 bucks here is the outcome.

Cylinders 1,2,5 are showing 25% misfire, the car does have NGK iridium plugs in that were added a year ago, probably going to go back to motorcraft double platinum

Needs new coil packs. How about the MSD?? or any others??

Computer retune

New MAF sensor as it was reading out of range.. Recomendations?? Fords is 300.00 bucks.. i figured there would be a better aftermarket one.

Complete tune up

Fuel system cleanse as they say

And the grand total would be 1100.00 to have all this work done, now my question is would it make sense to buy the parts and have them put it on?? as far as retuning the ECM would it make more sense to just order a SCT device and do it myself??

More or less just wondering how some of you would handle this situation as its not what you would say in the budget, so im trying to do it as cheap as possible but get quality parts.

Thanks guys!! :SNSign:

 

[max427]

Diag sounds funny. Did u take it to the dealer? Sounds like someones trying to throw parts at your car because they dont know whats really wrong. Plugs AND coils? MAF and "retune" ? I would take a closer look at the MAF sensor, see if it really is out of range. No way does your car need all that. If the maf doesn't check out ok, try cleaning it. If it does check out ok the next thing i would check is the plugs. Does this shop have an ignition scope? Who installed the plugs and if they are the type that need to be gapped (unlike plat.) then were they gapped properly?

Im a ford tech and heres what i would do. First thing i probably would check is the MAF. bad maf reading = improper mixture = possible misfires. I would look at the other cylinders or run a cylinder power balance test. if they all are pretty even with cylinder P/B and misfire count, i would probably replace the MAF. Look at it this way, bad plugs wont cause a MAF out of range. Make the shop diag the ROOT CAUSE and not just toss parts at your car on your dime. Chances are if the MAF's too far out you'll be replacing those plugs anyway. Only go with motorcraft, as if ford heads dont already have a bad enough time holding spark plugs in aftermarket plugs only magnify the problem.
I can also get the work shop manual diagnostic pinpoint test if u have any DTC's, which u should. year/model/engine/DTC

 

[Jbauer]

what the hell is a 25% misfire

test the resistance of the coils and slap some new plugs in that bich. If you don't have an ohm meter, wait till night time and spray some water over the coils and look for sparks.
Then get some CRC MAF cleaner and call it a day

I'm not aware of any ford re flash of the ECM that fixes a misfire, or a 'rotten egg' smelling car. I don't know about ford, but at the VW dealer, Reflashes are free of charge, and are preformed without the customers consent.

 

[kramer03gt]

Hey guys,

thanks for the input, i was a little confused on the whole diag as well. i have attached the actual paper work from today for you guys to check out.

But i will try cleaning the MAF and see what happens, the car does have a CAI on it which is why they were telling me it was out of range, They also explained the reflash as like a software upgrade for a computer.. Which being a network engineer i would like they could and should be done for free if that is how they work.

What did you mean by TDC??

 

[kramer03gt]

And wouldn't it make sense to replace all the coils at one instead of just 3?? atleast it does to me anyway..

 

[Jbauer]

yea, what your going to do is..

1) copper plugs> platinum plugs.. go to autozone or where ever, and get autolite or motorcraft COPPERS. you can get the platinums, they'll work just fine too..but i prefer coppers, they are better plugs overall if you dont mind replacing them every 1.5 years or so.

2) buy ignition coils 1, 2 and 5..they are extremley simple to install..since you have to remove them to install the plugs, just install new ones instead of the old ones..

3) a 500 dollar fuel injection cleaner? Man, whats this world coming to. Go to autozone, buy some "sea foam" shove that isht in the brake booster and watch the smoke show..voila..cost you 5 bucks. Jiffy lube and other hack shops do the "Fuel injection" cleaning for about 69.99 if you have absolutley no technical knowledge.

4) screw the damn PCM reflash. i bet 99 percent of the people here dont have the latest flash, these flashes can sometimes IMO make drivability worse.

5) about the MAF..they fail. Try cleaning it, buy CRC MAF Cleaner from autozone or somewhere, and spray it down, let it dry for about 30 minutes, and re install.

just do the plugs, and ignition coils first. i'm almost sure that'll fix most if not all your problems.

 

[kramer03gt]

what is the opionion of the accel coil packs?

 

[Jbauer]

let me guess, your a student, or beginning automotive technician? Stop confusing the guy!

Just do my steps, i'm 100 percent sure you wont have any problems afterwards. Coils are a common failure on out cars. A misfire can cause a Rotten egg smell. As you can see, the issues were diagnosed by more than likely, a Ford certified technician who is experienced in diagnosing the 2v 4.6, and probably sees the same problems multiple times a day. From my experience as a VW tech, experience is usually dead accurate.

Accel coils arent to popular around here i think. Spend the money and get OE.

 

[SilverBullet00]

yea, what your going to do is..

1) copper plugs> platinum plugs.. go to autozone or where ever, and get autolite or motorcraft COPPERS. you can get the platinums, they'll work just fine too..but i prefer coppers, they are better plugs overall if you dont mind replacing them every 1.5 years or so.

2) buy ignition coils 1, 2 and 5..they are extremley simple to install..since you have to remove them to install the plugs, just install new ones instead of the old ones..

3) a 500 dollar fuel injection cleaner? Man, whats this world coming to. Go to autozone, buy some "sea foam" shove that isht in the brake booster and watch the smoke show..voila..cost you 5 bucks. Jiffy lube and other hack shops do the "Fuel injection" cleaning for about 69.99 if you have absolutley no technical knowledge.

4) screw the damn PCM reflash. i bet 99 percent of the people here dont have the latest flash, these flashes can sometimes IMO make drivability worse.

5) about the MAF..they fail. Try cleaning it, buy CRC MAF Cleaner from autozone or somewhere, and spray it down, let it dry for about 30 minutes, and re install.

just do the plugs, and ignition coils first. i'm almost sure that'll fix most if not all your problems.

This is a good process. I like NGK TR55 spark plugs, which are coppers. IMO NGK is the best plug out there.

If you clean the MAF and it doesnt work, I would try to get a hold of Randy Stinchcomb and get the parts through him, he will give you the best deal on OEM Ford parts. The same goes for the coil packs.

And yes, screw the reflash and screw the fuel injection cleaner. Seafoam will do wonders for 6.99 a can.

 

[chuck943]

This is a good process. I like NGK TR55 spark plugs, which are coppers. IMO NGK is the best plug out there.

If you clean the MAF and it doesnt work, I would try to get a hold of Randy Stinchcomb and get the parts through him, he will give you the best deal on OEM Ford parts. The same goes for the coil packs.

And yes, screw the reflash and screw the fuel injection cleaner. Seafoam will do wonders for 6.99 a can.

Guys Please be care with the Seafoam!!! This in the hands of a rookie can be a disaster!!! You are sucking a liquid in to the engine and if you let it pull in to fast and get to much into a cylinder,well you cannot compress a liquid and it will bend a rod!! I would be really leary about pulling it thru a vacuum hose as large as the brake booster,esp. if you have never done this before! I would recommend using a smaller vacuum line on the intake.

 

[eliteJAE]

isn't the safest way to do seafoam through the gas tank??

EDIT: sorry dont meant to hijack your thread there OP, but just what type of tool do you use to remove the MAF? i guess mine was over torqued and i dont have a hollow driver, so flat-heads don't work noob Q, i know

 

[Jbauer]

you know, i believe it's impossible to hydrolock the engine or do any sort of engine damage from seafoam. I'm just not aware of any way you can get this stuff into the engine so fast it hydrolocks. You can pour it straight into the brake booster, upside down with an air compressor flange welded to the back of the bottle and i still doubt you could flow enough to hydrolock. I feel it's just a myth.

Seafoam in the gas tank..meh, won't hurt anything, probably wont help anything either. Techron is better for that. As far as in the oil, i did that to my jetta and it was never the same. I drove around with it in the crank case for a bout a week and i started getting blue smoke out the tail pipe. I think its best to just leave it in the oil for 5 or 10 minutes and drain it if going that route. Seafoam, IMO is only good as a direct fuel injection cleaner..like through a vaccum line or machine.

 

[lvmustanggt]

what is the opionion of the accel coil packs?

I have accel coil packs , bought it off ebay . Works great.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999...008QQitemZ180247678092QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

When I bought it it was 200.00 with free shipping

 

[COramprat]

ALWAYS best to start simple and cheap. Plugs, fuel system cleanse...that sort of stuff before throwing sensors at it.

 

[Notchbck93]

a 25% misfire sounds hoaky to me.

3 coils bad on your car at 93,000 hmmm.

A bad maf would cause multiple misfires that would be random, not the same three cyls.

You would have PO301,302 & 305 codes stored.

I would say clean MAF, new fuel filter if it hasn't been changed recently and some new plugs.

Diagnosis is weak at best. Without being able to look at short term f/t and maf volt, 02 readings it's hard to say.

Do you even have a check engine light on?

 

[Jbauer]

I've seen MAFs fail with out setting of Check engine lights though, i dont know about fords, but on VWs, Sometimes, a check engine light wont come on, but it'll be stored in memory, to be read only by a factory scan tool.

Also, like the very smart guy above me said..a bad maf causes completley random miss fires.
the only thing i can think of that would consistantly cause an issue on only those specific cylinders, would be the plugs, and coils.
You can check the resistance of the plugs with an ohm meter to make sure it is the problem, but i'm willing to bet it is.

 

[kramer03gt]

Ok, Thanks for all the in-site!! this is really awesome!!

The car never threw any check engine lights, so I thought that was a little weird for how strong the smell was. The car has 93000 miles on it


I actually did the Seafoam before my last oil change which was about a month ago, and then used royal purple motor oil and K&N filter..

I did notice the other day that I am hearing a gurgling sound over in the CAI area, could this be a sign that the MAF just needs to be cleaned or that its bad?

I think I will start with the MAF cleaning, new coils and plugs. I will try the NGK copper plugs that Silverbullet00 recommended. Do they have to be gapped any special way if so what is the recommendation. I will also look at the ACCEL coils as i am debating about the MSD as well.

Do you think it would be to much to replace the O2 senors in this round?? or just try the plugs, coil and maf clean and see where that gets me?

And yeah not so much an automotive student or anything, just trying to learn the way of the car and get more involved in doing things myself, so cases like this happen i can save myself alot of money and time on work that really doesn't need to be done, I have actually ordered both the Hanes and Chilton manuals and i am going to try and to a brake job this weekend. and i would like to try to replace the plugs and coils and all that stuff, being its really matter of taking your time and reading directions.

 

[Jbauer]

I wasn't saying you were an automotive student, iwas talking about the guy below you..or was it me..i'm not scrolling back up.

hmm..i've never had a problem with it, but i've heard of lots of people having problems with there MAF with the K&N installed. Apparently, the oil is suppose to get on the sensor and screw with the readings, so a cleaning may be in order. Betweeb Accel and MSD..i'd say MSD. aren't the factory ones cheaper though?

 

[kramer03gt]

I wasn't saying you were an automotive student, iwas talking about the guy below you..or was it me..i'm not scrolling back up.

hmm..i've never had a problem with it, but i've heard of lots of people having problems with there MAF with the K&N installed. Apparently, the oil is suppose to get on the sensor and screw with the readings, so a cleaning may be in order. Betweeb Accel and MSD..i'd say MSD. aren't the factory ones cheaper though?

ha no worries..

I was quoted from ford at 580 bucks for the packs..

Yeah i have the demolet CAI with a green air filter, the oil filter I used was K & N which i might be switching back to the amsoil filter i used to use. picked this one up on sale so i figured i would try it.

 

[chuck943]

you know, i believe it's impossible to hydrolock the engine or do any sort of engine damage from seafoam. I'm just not aware of any way you can get this stuff into the engine so fast it hydrolocks. You can pour it straight into the brake booster, upside down with an air compressor flange welded to the back of the bottle and i still doubt you could flow enough to hydrolock. I feel it's just a myth.

Seafoam in the gas tank..meh, won't hurt anything, probably wont help anything either. Techron is better for that. As far as in the oil, i did that to my jetta and it was never the same. I drove around with it in the crank case for a bout a week and i started getting blue smoke out the tail pipe. I think its best to just leave it in the oil for 5 or 10 minutes and drain it if going that route. Seafoam, IMO is only good as a direct fuel injection cleaner..like through a vaccum line or machine.

Believe me its not a myth!! We had a tech in our shop bend a rod in a Town Car 4.6L doing this. He put 2 cans of the Motorcraft PM3 cleaner in thru the brake booster hose and bent no 1 rod.