Time for a new motor. What size should I go with?

[2000xp8]

Pretty cool that BD let you use his shop, but i have to agree with what Nik said earlier, "there is no reason that an individual with the right tools, research, and patience can't achieve respectable results"

If you can read a micrometer, use a torque wrench and keep things clean there is no reason you couldnt do it.

Granted ive never assembled a bottom end, but ive degreed a cam, sucessfully changed the installed height of springs, and tested the valve springs to get the correct installed height for the pressure that was required for my camshaft. These things are just as complicated and important to get right as anything in a motor, and it wasnt rocket science

I understand that it can be done, and i can appreciate it when done right.
But how worth it sometimes, well that depends.
For example, my extrude honed twisted wedges went for a valve job, so the machine shop did the seat pressure and height, part of the valve job price, could i have said don't bother i'll do it and learned myself? ya, but why would i.

Building the shortblock requires a couple tools that the average guy doesn't have, so to pay for the machine work and then buy the tools may not be all that sensible financially since most of the money goes towards the machine work.

I may be a bit different than some of you guys, to an extent i like the hobby aspect, but i'm not putting stuff together just to put it together, i'm doing it to get finished and drive the thing.

 

[JamesB88]

I clicked N/a 427 if your going to do a dart block. Factory windsor block id do a 408.. I'm putting together a 393 or 408 for my gt, havent desided on what size yet.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

A. I assure you, i put more time and energy into my project than most here. Only thing i didn't have a hand in was machining and assembling the short block, why should i? I have better people than myself to do it.
What next write my own prescription for eye glasses? Cut my own hair?
Some things are better left to professionals, and i happen to believe a shortblock that you want to last is one of them.
B. Who here that thinks building their own engine is a good idea, actually built their own stroker engine?

No hell you havent, Are you that stupid? You think just because you have a termi engine in your fox, that you have put more time and money into your pos than the rest of us?

Do you pay someone to drive your car too? Has it ever been to the track with YOU driving?

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

I don't doubt that.



Be careful where you go with that, you could really apply that logic to farm out the entire build of the car.



I believe you need a pretty fancy degree to write prescriptions, but I do know plenty of people who cut their own hair, and prefer it that way.



A professional might be more qualified to do it, but there is no reason that an individual with the right tools, research, and patience can't achieve respectable results, and dare I say, similar results with a little bit of hard work.

You can close your eyes and hand an engine builder your credit card, that's totally fine. Just don't tell other people that it's the only way to go, because it's not.



My engine is not a stroker, but I "built" it myself, down to every last nut, bolt, ring and bearing. I measured clearances, I degreed the cam, I measured combustion chamber volume, I measured endplay, I followed torque step procedures, I did the whole 9 yards. If I end up blowing it up at some point, then I'll investigate it and learn from my mistakes. Then when I'm ready to put a different engine in the car, I will build it, too, as well as any engine after that.

I also took a part in specifying my cam specs, something else most would say is better left to professionals. It's my car and I just like to be educated and involved in every step of the process, and I'm sure I'm not the only one with that attitude.

If it blows, thats called racing! Parts fail, thats how life works! Nothing man made is perfect, and it ALL has a lifespan.

 

[2000xp8]

No hell you havent, Are you that stupid? You think just because you have a termi engine in your fox, that you have put more time and money into your pos than the rest of us?

Do you pay someone to drive your car too? Has it ever been to the track with YOU driving?

Interesting take on what i wrote.
Asking someone if they are stupid, after making a stupid post, really?

First off all, i never said i spent more money than anyone.
Second, honestly i do think i've put in more time than many here. That is no insult to anyone here, i'm a bit older than some of you guys which is more than obvious when conversing with someone like you.
I've had this car since 93 or so, on my 4th engine, multiple transmissions along with rears, half a dozen suspension setups, 3 types of brakes, 300,000 miles.
4 intakes, 3 cams, 3 sets of heads, the list could go on and on.

So if you were to ask if i think i put more effort into my "POS" than say someone with your literacy skills, i'd reply "F'en A I do".
If you read any of my older posts, you'd realize my thought process has nothing to do with the cobra swap, nor do i treat others differently because of it. It happens to be what i thought was best for reliability at the power level i wanted.

Thinking before you speak goes a long way.
There was no reason for you to get so aggressive or insulting.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

Interesting take on what i wrote.
Asking someone if they are stupid, after making a stupid post, really?

First off all, i never said i spent more money than anyone.
Second, honestly i do think i've put in more time than many here. That is no insult to anyone here, i'm a bit older than some of you guys which is more than obvious when conversing with someone like you.
I've had this car since 93 or so, on my 4th engine, multiple transmissions along with rears, half a dozen suspension setups, 3 types of brakes, 300,000 miles.
4 intakes, 3 cams, 3 sets of heads, the list could go on and on.

So if you were to ask if i think i put more effort into my "POS" than say someone with your literacy skills, i'd reply "F'en A I do".

Thinking before you speak goes a long way.
There was no reason for you to get so aggressive or insulting.

OK sorry for the jump. I did over re-act a bit there.

Some people have different opinions and outlooks than I do, I forget that sometimes. I still don't understand why some people still think that just because they had their engine built by someone else, they think that it will last longer. Ive done 5 mod motors this year, and 3 smallblock sbf's. Not one has broken, or had problems. I trust my engine work over damn near anybody, partly because I wont go around blaming someone IF it did break, like most people Ive found do.

Are you implying that because you have had the car so long, that you have put more effort/ parts into it?

 

[RangerJoe]

[/QUOTE]B. Who here that thinks building their own engine is a good idea, actually built their own stroker engine?[/QUOTE]

Well, my combo may be very mild, but I built it myself. Measured every clearance and asked questions and researched when I didn't know. Its a very satisfactory feeling to say I did all that myself. And, for many of us doing things on a budget is important. I saved $700 to $1000 depending on what shops and other companies are charging for stroker short blocks. To me, very well worth it.

 

[striker911]

When you say "427" are you talking about a 4" stroke and a 4.125" bore in an aftermarket block, or a 4.030" bore and a 4.18" stroke in a stock block?

FWIW, I've heard a few engine builders, including Woody over at Ford Strokers, say that they don't like to go over a 4" stroke in a stock Windsor block.

Anyway, my vote would be for the 408, but I'm curious: why no 347 option?

To be honest im a GM man and have just always liked the 427. I dont know much about the safer bore or stoke u mention. Ive been a bolt on guy only up to this point. I left the 347 out cause it seems like u would have to spend out the arse to make it fast and reliable, rather then just putting a 331 med budget build and a sc. Could be wrong though. Thats why I posted.

 

[srtthis]

No hell you havent, Are you that stupid? You think just because you have a termi engine in your fox, that you have put more time and money into your pos than the rest of us?

Do you pay someone to drive your car too? Has it ever been to the track with YOU driving?

haha im pretty sure its safe to say i have more time in my buddys x275 car then he has in his own car.

 

[The_Dude]

I still don't understand why some people still think that just because they had their engine built by someone else, they think that it will last longer.

You're interpreting this incorrectly. They think that having someone build it who does it for a living will allow to last longer than if they do it themselves. Some of us are fully capable of building engines, some of us, not so much.

 

[FoxGT87]

I would place myself into the category that would feel more comfortable about buying a kit engine rather than building my own stroker. I know that my skill base is not where it needs to be, I am messy and disorganized. If I had someone who knew what they were doing and wanted to hold my hand through the process so I could learn I would do it that way. But the fact still remains that it would be more logical for me to spend more coin when I would have the chance and buy something built by a professional.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

I would place myself into the category that would feel more comfortable about buying a kit engine rather than building my own stroker. I know that my skill base is not where it needs to be, I am messy and disorganized. If I had someone who knew what they were doing and wanted to hold my hand through the process so I could learn I would do it that way. But the fact still remains that it would be more logical for me to spend more coin when I would have the chance and buy something built by a professional.

anybody remember all the "blown up dss" threads? like 20 engines gave up after like 300 miles? There is no excuse for one giving out that early in the game, unless they had unsafe tuning on them.

 

[FastDriver]

OP,

I'm going to recommend a different route. You said you'd give up 100hp for $2k, and that you haven't done much more than bolt-ons before. This is one of the most effective power:$ SBF setups out there in my opinion:

1. Get a used 302W shortblock (my friend has been running one he got several years ago for $50, no bull****)
2. H/C/I - Go with just about any Aluminum heads GT40X, TFS TW, AFR165, Performer, etc... F-Cam or TFS1, and a long runner intake (Cobra, GT40, or Performer)
3. supporting bolt-ons (Headers, roller rockers, TB, MAF, injectors, 255 LPH fuel pump, AFPR, MSD 6AL)
4. Blower, Turbo, or Nitrous: In your case, I would recommend a blower for the combination of simplicity and bang for the buck. Recommended blower would be Vortech S-trim, or Procharger P1-SC.
5. Tune: Keep it below 450 rwhp with a blower or 500rwhp with nitrous/turbo, around 11.5:1 AFR underboost, Timing is different for every combination, but keep it conservative, and keep your RPMs below 6000 rpm.

This is going to be hard to beat for the money, and the money you save by not buying an expensive shortblock or stroker kit will let you put more money into the power-makers. Great thing about cheap blocks is that when they go, you can just get another one, and because they're cheap, it takes away the stress of the risk of losing massive amounts of time and effort in a bigger budget combo.

 

[FastDriver]

Oh, and if you're set on making 600, then starting with a 351W will be your best bet, but I don't think it would beat the bang for the buck above.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

stock shorty with a turbo and some decent heads and intake, with a stock cam, on about 12-14psi. Its a great combo and it makes really good power!

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

it really depends, on what you have now, and how "fast" you are comfortble with.

 

[KyleEBK]

personally id start with a 351w block

 

[striker911]

Oh, and if you're set on making 600, then starting with a 351W will be your best bet, but I don't think it would beat the bang for the buck above.

Thanks for the info. I tried to add my mods to my sig lastnight but this site was acting up. So ill do that now. I gave the car to my dad years ago and he did some of the stuff to it so I will have to look up the specs on the heads. I can not find what the cam specs are though. It was bought on ebay with the heads and the seller only said it had good lope and was a good combo with the heads. From what ur saying though I would be able to use a lot of what I already have. Maybe just a fresh short block, blower, mass, tb and fuel system would be needed under hood.

personally id start with a 351w block

I have a pure guess here on my Hp number. Its around 340hp. I just moved to BFE and I have no idea where to find a dyno so I can get hard numbers and tune. The last project I did was a full intake from fender filter to gt40 intake. It was all under $200 and it was tuned by me so I know its not spot on at all. I really only had to add 9psi of fuel p. That was fine fore a few hundred miles but I went lean.

 

[striker911]

K sig with all mods I can remember.

 

[2000xp8]

I have a pure guess here on my Hp number. Its around 340hp. I just moved to BFE and I have no idea where to find a dyno so I can get hard numbers and tune. The last project I did was a full intake from fender filter to gt40 intake. It was all under $200 and it was tuned by me so I know its not spot on at all. I really only had to add 9psi of fuel p. That was fine fore a few hundred miles but I went lean.

I think you are a bit high on the hp, probably by about 90 or so.

As far as re-using parts, probably the intake and throttle body.
An unknown cam is just a shot in the dark.
The meter and injectors will be too small.

If money is an issue, buy an explorer engine, sell off the heads and intake, use the shortblock, buy some afr 165's or TW's, a good cam, pro m meter and 24's.
That should get you just over 300rwhp.

While that's not 600hp, i assure you the fun factor over your present parts will go up quite a bit.
Then when you want more, do as Fast driver suggested and slap an S trim on.