5.0L Miata - Tried Starting...no go...advice?

Hey Everyone,

Well it's been a busy couple of days. I got the rad in this weekend including my custom brackets (pictures to follow later), got the alternator wiring done (had to buy new connectors) and got the fuel lines hooked up. Installed the upper intake manifold again, zip-tied the harness, etc, etc.

Anyway, I got to the point a couple of hours ago that I thought it was time to try and fire it up. To make a long story short, the engine cranks but will not turn over. I pulled a spark plug and grounded it to the chassis to see if when cranked it was getting spark, and sure enough I don't see a spark.

Any suggestions on where to start hunting for lack of spark? If anyone enjoys and has experience trouble shooting 5.0L's, lives in the KW area, and doesn't mind spending an evening with me working on it, I can always use the help...especially now! I want to get this thing running!! Any advice would be great though!

Thanks

Brett
 
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also check to see if you are or aren't getting spark from the coil to the distributor. if you have spark to the dizzy, then you most likely have a prob there. if the coil isn't putting anything out, could be bad coil or wiring is done incorrectly.
 
What is the situation with the ignition parts? The PIP and TFI both need to be healthy (coil too, like Jerry mentioned) to have spark. A bad PIP will keep you from having injector pulsing as well (noid light can check that real quick).

You can search Jrichker for his 'Cranks but wont start checklist'. That will give you some good info and allow you to systematically test things out.

Good luck.
 
This is my first time working with a 302, so I haven't checked a whole lot. I will check all that was mentioned above and will search for that check list...hopefully it is something simple.

For pictures check out my website. Thanks for the advice...I'll post if I have any success or if I need more help.
 
Throw a carb on it and you'll never have problems like this again. Stand alone ignition system and carb give you 2 completely distinct systems that are easy to test.

That aside.

Try to pull codes to see if the computer is alive. If it responds, check spark directly from the coil as mentioned above. Also.....those TFI modules on the distributor go bad all the time. Since this engine is a swap, I assume it has been sitting a while and chances are the TFI module went out.

Good luck
 
Yup the engine has been sitting for about a year. How much is the TFI and is a Ford part or available in the aftermarket? No plans on going with carb setup, although I'm sure it would simplify this problem...but would add a whole different problem for me. That would be having to tear everything appart again!
 
I _think_...they are $75 and it is the box on the side of the distributor. You need a funky socket to get the bolts out. I also think the parts stores carry them.

Does the fuel pump prime? The activate lead on the FP is sent from the EEC so if it primes, your EEC is probably at least partially alive.
 
Ok, I will do some testing tonight and see what I get. I can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key to the "on" position and there is a little bit of fuel coming out the headers I think. I'm sure I'll need to pull the plugs and clean them up now also. :nice:
 
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor
E.) ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
F.) Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire.
H.) Computer

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars


2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. See http://www.mustangworks.com/article...c-iv_codes.html for a description of the test connector. If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay. The fuse links live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.

A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test the injector wiring.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.

a.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
b.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
c.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.


4.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.

A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
 
Ok, I tested for power at both coil connections and found nothing. Obviously the green and red wires go to the coil, but I was unsure of the rest of the wiring at this end when I did it.

Other than the two coil wires I have a Blk/Gr wire (thick gauge) that has been tampered with in the past. It already had an eylet crimped onto it and had been soldered further down the line into the A/C clutch connector and two other Blk/Gr wires. I assumed this was the EEC ground as layed out in the manual, but perhaps I was wrong?

The other wire I have left other than the A/C clutch is a wire that is blue (thick gauge) that then goes into a 20Ga Fuseable link and then after that fuseable link is Black/Yl or maybe Black/Orange. I assumed this was step two in the manual and that this was supposed to be insulated and not used.

According to my Mustang - Miata manual

1) Start at the coil end - cut plastic plug off of EEC ground on black with white wire (connector 26) and crimp eyelet onto it - this must ground to the body

2) Cut eyelet off wire that ends at point 34 and insulate. This was the original 12V constant hot for the EEC.

I have a 5.0L from a 88 Mustang...and therefore have an SD harness.

Any help would be great!

Brett
 
Yep, you are there. The red / green stripe wire to the coil has to be hot in run and start. The Green / yellow (tan /yellow in some) goes from the coil to your tach and the puter.

The big blacks are grounds (forgot to hook one up on the 2.8 to 4.0 V6 swap in my brothers '92 ranger and the damn thing wouldn't start either).

Jamie
 
Hmmm...I'm not getting anything on the coil wires though, even with the thick black wire grounded. I guess I have to go back inside the car and see if I made a mistake there that isn't sending the coil juice.

On another note though, I ran a wire from the +ive terminal of the battery to the coil and then had power on both terminals. I tried to start it this way, no go.

Thoughts?