As I understand it, for solid rear axles, a watts link is the best setup you can put in. Anyone have one ? Who's kit did you buy ? How do you like it ? Pics of the install ? Any opinions (or facts) on who makes the best one ?
Anyone have a watts link ?
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keep in mind the watts link only replaces the trac/panhard bar
it keeps the axle centered (left/right) as suspension travels, keep in mind a mustang rear suspension only travels 2-3"
if you have (keep) leaf springs a watts link would be completely useless
if you are running a triangulated 4 link there is no need for a trac/panhard bar or watts link
the only place a watts link would help is if you were running a 5 link strait upper and lower links, however i dont think you would be able to tell a differance between a watts link and a trac/panhard bar.
Landrover discoveries came with them stock.
my opinions only...
it keeps the axle centered (left/right) as suspension travels, keep in mind a mustang rear suspension only travels 2-3"
if you have (keep) leaf springs a watts link would be completely useless
if you are running a triangulated 4 link there is no need for a trac/panhard bar or watts link
the only place a watts link would help is if you were running a 5 link strait upper and lower links, however i dont think you would be able to tell a differance between a watts link and a trac/panhard bar.
Landrover discoveries came with them stock.
my opinions only...
all good points. if you are keeping the stock leaf springs, dont spend the money on a watts link or even a panhard bar.
dodgestang
Active Member
Funny....my car's handling improved dramatically with the addition of the watts link while still running my 5 leafs. I am also planning on replacing them with a 3 link setup but until then it is a 5 leaf and watts setup.
umm yeah, for a street only car that never gets driven hard a watts link is probably useless. for a car that gets driven hard and pushed to the edge a lot and/or a road race car a watts link is about the best thing you can do for the rear suspension. i'm planning on a watts link for my 69 cougar project, that is if i stay with leafs and maybe even if i upgrade to a better rear suspension, depending on what style of course. it wouldn't work with a triangulated 4 link obviously but something like a parallel 4 link it would work just fine, or with a 3 link, etc.
there are 2 watts links on the market now that i'm aware of
www.fays2.net
www.evolutionmsport.com
there are 2 watts links on the market now that i'm aware of
www.fays2.net
www.evolutionmsport.com
70vert
New Member
I have the EvM unit on original leafs
and it does prevent sway, at least with my original leafs and ancient, cracked, bushings. After installation, the car turns in quicker and takes a "set" in the turn much faster. There's not that confidence-robbing initial sway. Now if you're running beefed up leafs, you may get less of a benefit, but there's still some. Trans-Am Bosses had them paired up with leafs.
There is a bit of harshness added, especially if you hit a bump mid-turn and it catches the sidewall, especially with the shorter sidewall of a 17" rim. On my ride, I'll trade the confidence for a little harshness. It is ESPECIALLY noticeable on quick transitions from turning left to turning right.
This was supposed to be part of EvM's 3-link kit for me.
I'm beginning to think it's never going to see the light of day. 
and it does prevent sway, at least with my original leafs and ancient, cracked, bushings. After installation, the car turns in quicker and takes a "set" in the turn much faster. There's not that confidence-robbing initial sway. Now if you're running beefed up leafs, you may get less of a benefit, but there's still some. Trans-Am Bosses had them paired up with leafs.
There is a bit of harshness added, especially if you hit a bump mid-turn and it catches the sidewall, especially with the shorter sidewall of a 17" rim. On my ride, I'll trade the confidence for a little harshness. It is ESPECIALLY noticeable on quick transitions from turning left to turning right.
This was supposed to be part of EvM's 3-link kit for me.
1320stang
Founding Member
1320stang
Founding Member
70vert
New Member
plumbers' crack has formed
looks like there's a little plumbers' crack forming in this thread, lol
since we're talking about keeping rearends in line, the plumber angle seems appropriate.
here's another testimonial from restomod-mustang, on the panhard bar effect, Watt's should be similar.
Joe,
I was very impressed.? In the hairpin, just before the Esses, the car could be powered around
the turn using the accelerator.? Great fun.? It was a real confidence builder and worth the
investment.? Elsewhere on the track, I could take the turns at a higher speed as the
rear was far more planted and was not attempting to swing out.? It enabled acceleration
earlier when exiting a turn.? Last time out I'd spin. This time I stayed on the track.
I credit this to the panhard rod and not to any improved driving skill.
Rgds,? --Bill K.
So Bill,
how did it go with the panhard bar at mini-nats?
Joe
who could not be there for the first time in 9 years!
> All,
> The new version of Mair Racing's panhard rod is now installed. Upon
> completion the rear snapped back into alignment; no more tire
> rubbing.
> It has only been driven on the street so far, but feels far more
> planted and stable. The upgraded rear leaf spring shackles were
> already on the car. Sept. 8 & 9 I take it to Infineon with the the
> Nor Cal Shelby club where I'll really try it out. Here is a link on
> the event if you are interested:
> http://www.norcal-saac.org/mn/mnmain.htm#acc
looks like there's a little plumbers' crack forming in this thread, lol
since we're talking about keeping rearends in line, the plumber angle seems appropriate.
here's another testimonial from restomod-mustang, on the panhard bar effect, Watt's should be similar.
Joe,
I was very impressed.? In the hairpin, just before the Esses, the car could be powered around
the turn using the accelerator.? Great fun.? It was a real confidence builder and worth the
investment.? Elsewhere on the track, I could take the turns at a higher speed as the
rear was far more planted and was not attempting to swing out.? It enabled acceleration
earlier when exiting a turn.? Last time out I'd spin. This time I stayed on the track.
I credit this to the panhard rod and not to any improved driving skill.
Rgds,? --Bill K.
So Bill,
how did it go with the panhard bar at mini-nats?
Joe
who could not be there for the first time in 9 years!
> All,
> The new version of Mair Racing's panhard rod is now installed. Upon
> completion the rear snapped back into alignment; no more tire
> rubbing.
> It has only been driven on the street so far, but feels far more
> planted and stable. The upgraded rear leaf spring shackles were
> already on the car. Sept. 8 & 9 I take it to Infineon with the the
> Nor Cal Shelby club where I'll really try it out. Here is a link on
> the event if you are interested:
> http://www.norcal-saac.org/mn/mnmain.htm#acc
I was under the impression that pan hard setups don't work well in both directions which is why I was considering a watts. Any comments on that ?
dodgestang
Active Member
a lot of people feel that when you're haging it on the edge of adhesion the watts works much better since the roll center stays more constant and equal while the panhard's roll center will change when the car changes direction which could cause snap oversteer and send you careening off into the armco.
most cars that only turn left run a panhard bar BTW and a lot of SCCA racers run a watts, not all though.
most cars that only turn left run a panhard bar BTW and a lot of SCCA racers run a watts, not all though.
I have the Fays2 on my '65 fb. It was all high quality stuff and a bolt in.
I can't say if it made a huge difference. I think that would require someone with a lot of before and after experience on the same road course, and conrolling for all other variables. At the same time as I put in the Watts link I added new springs and polyurethane shackles and a Baer Tracker bump steer corrector and Slide-a-Links (which use a solid aluminum front leaf spring eye bushing) and a 14" steering wheel and a T-5 tranny. With so many changes at once, it's impossible to say what difference the Watts link made. However, with 235/45-17 tires, KYB shocks, and Maier boxed control arms, frame connectors, underhood brace and a six point cage, this car corners pretty hard. I really need some Scat Procar seats now. I slide around too much in the stockers really to feel the full effects of all the handling doo-dads. Also intending to go for some Bilstein shocks and some rod end strut rods in the future.
Theoretically, though, a Watts link has got to be a big help. The leaf spring setup requires the springs to support the car, dampen pavement irregularities and body roll, and act as trailing arms to locate the rear axle. The only thing to prevent side-to-side motion of the body over the axle is the resistance to twist of the leafs and their front eye bushings. The shackles and their bushings are too weak to contribute anything. This is what the Watts link does, to keep the body positively centered over the axle. I don't see how anyone could say this is not a plus, no matter how you drive your car.
I can't say if it made a huge difference. I think that would require someone with a lot of before and after experience on the same road course, and conrolling for all other variables. At the same time as I put in the Watts link I added new springs and polyurethane shackles and a Baer Tracker bump steer corrector and Slide-a-Links (which use a solid aluminum front leaf spring eye bushing) and a 14" steering wheel and a T-5 tranny. With so many changes at once, it's impossible to say what difference the Watts link made. However, with 235/45-17 tires, KYB shocks, and Maier boxed control arms, frame connectors, underhood brace and a six point cage, this car corners pretty hard. I really need some Scat Procar seats now. I slide around too much in the stockers really to feel the full effects of all the handling doo-dads. Also intending to go for some Bilstein shocks and some rod end strut rods in the future.
Theoretically, though, a Watts link has got to be a big help. The leaf spring setup requires the springs to support the car, dampen pavement irregularities and body roll, and act as trailing arms to locate the rear axle. The only thing to prevent side-to-side motion of the body over the axle is the resistance to twist of the leafs and their front eye bushings. The shackles and their bushings are too weak to contribute anything. This is what the Watts link does, to keep the body positively centered over the axle. I don't see how anyone could say this is not a plus, no matter how you drive your car.
no one has asked what you're planning on doing with the car?
hard street driving? - panhard
autocross/roadrace? - panhard or watts (there are benefits to both)
benefit of the panhard bar is you can adjust your rear roll center after it's installed (with an adjustable mount). with a watts, once you install it, you can't change the roll center. watts does work slightly better at it's job of locating the axle, but for a serious car that's lowered and on stiff springs, the difference is marginal.
best handling live axle car I've driven (fully autocross prepped '69 camaro) had a panhard bar. that said, my '79 camaro (also fully prepped) has a watts, but I bought the car that way... both cars are 3 link setups.
hard street driving? - panhard
autocross/roadrace? - panhard or watts (there are benefits to both)
benefit of the panhard bar is you can adjust your rear roll center after it's installed (with an adjustable mount). with a watts, once you install it, you can't change the roll center. watts does work slightly better at it's job of locating the axle, but for a serious car that's lowered and on stiff springs, the difference is marginal.
best handling live axle car I've driven (fully autocross prepped '69 camaro) had a panhard bar. that said, my '79 camaro (also fully prepped) has a watts, but I bought the car that way... both cars are 3 link setups.
DukeGnarley
Member
as i understand (which may be wrong) it, the roll center is controlled by the location of the center pivot on a watts. The fays2 (didn't bother to check the other one) has some adjustability for height. so it can still be adjusted after it's installed, it just looks like you have to unbolt the pivot and move it up or down a notch.
What do I want to do with the car ? Thats a good question. I want it to handle. I want to have a car that is streetable but that I can take to the track and beat the absolute hell out of. Thats why I overbuild everything. When I eventually take this car to the track I don't want to have to worry about taking it easy so I'll be able to drive it home. I want to have fun and drive it like I stole it 
dodgestang
Active Member
What do I want to do with the car ? Thats a good question. I want it to handle. I want to have a car that is streetable but that I can take to the track and beat the absolute hell out of. Thats why I overbuild everything. When I eventually take this car to the track I don't want to have to worry about taking it easy so I'll be able to drive it home. I want to have fun and drive it like I stole it
Uhh yeah.....take a trailer.
Just kidding...I just know my car which is overbuilt in many aspects breaks more often that I would like it too.
Anything is only as strong as its weakest link. I plan on doing a lot of work on my car to get it to not brake on me and I'm sure I'll have some school of hard knocks lessons to learn when I find out I didn't strengthen something enough. That I'm willing to live with.
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