I recently picked up a 1988 GT that’s pretty much stock for the exception of BBK headers and air intake. I was looking to add a little more fun to the car with a set of heads, intake and cam. This is my first 5.0 and not a mechanic to say the least. I was talking to a mechanic that I did some work for that I have used in the past and he expressed concern on the car having issues with a cam swap. I believe the car is a cali car due to it having a mass air sensor. The car also has a burned chip for computer that has a 3 tune setting from BAMA performance. I guess one of my questions is will the computer system support a heads and cam swap with keeping the fuel injection? If so, what route and specific setup has others done? Any insight on my options and info would be appreciated.
Computer support for top end mods?
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It completely depends on what you're trying to do as to whether or not an aftermarket ECU is necessary.
As for engine combos well... Welcome to
Throw a rock in any direction and you'll find engine combos.
I run a combo with everything you've mentioned and lots of things you haven't through a chip-tuned A9L on a Mass Air converted 86 GT.
How much power you put down pretty much determines the amount of fuel you need to deliver. Lots of fuel means large injectors. There are things that can be done to mitigate the use of larger injectors with the stock EEC but there gets to be a point where "tricking" the EEC only gets you so far with drivability.
So... How much fuel to you plan to deliver?
As for engine combos well... Welcome to
Throw a rock in any direction and you'll find engine combos.I run a combo with everything you've mentioned and lots of things you haven't through a chip-tuned A9L on a Mass Air converted 86 GT.
How much power you put down pretty much determines the amount of fuel you need to deliver. Lots of fuel means large injectors. There are things that can be done to mitigate the use of larger injectors with the stock EEC but there gets to be a point where "tricking" the EEC only gets you so far with drivability.
So... How much fuel to you plan to deliver?
I’m not looking to do anything crazy. I was looking at the AFR 165’s and maybe a eldebrock upper and lower intake. I haven’t got a clue on a cam and would definitely be up to suggestion from what others have experience with. I’m not sure on fuel either. I’m almost totally in the dark here. The car still has the 4 lug and t5 with hurst so just looking to wake her up just a bit.
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Yeah, I'd start working out engine combo before worrying about the EEC.
What kind of shape is the car in? How many miles? Pictures? Is this going to be a street car? Cruise? DD?
What kind of shape is the car in? How many miles? Pictures? Is this going to be a street car? Cruise? DD?
cars in good shape. Odometer shows 60k. Not sure if that’s actual or not. Guy before me had it about 5 yrs and was going to make a rd course car out of it and lost interest. He put the new interior in it. Still has stock gears but a set of 373 came with it. I’m just looking to make it a little street car. Nothing crazy. Not planning on doing anything with the bottom end at the moment
I would go with something along these lines but with the AFR heads you mentioned instead of the Holley:
Read all the fine print about recommendations and requirements etc...
All of that will run on your 19's and A9l. You will need a larger sensor and while doing that... Might upgrade to 24 lb injectors just to give some room. It's not required though.
Holley Systemax Engine Kit - PerformanceCenter.com
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Holley Systemax Engine Kit - PerformanceCenter.com
Click here to shop for Holley Systemax Engine Kit and get free shipping with guaranteed lowest prices. Easy to use website narrows product selection so you always find the rights parts. Read real customer reviews and sign up for email sales, coupons, and specials so you can save even more.
www.performancecenter.com
Read all the fine print about recommendations and requirements etc...
All of that will run on your 19's and A9l. You will need a larger sensor and while doing that... Might upgrade to 24 lb injectors just to give some room. It's not required though.
I’ll take a look at it. Appreciate itI would go with something along these lines but with the AFR heads you mentioned instead of the Holley:
Holley Systemax Engine Kit - PerformanceCenter.com
Click here to shop for Holley Systemax Engine Kit and get free shipping with guaranteed lowest prices. Easy to use website narrows product selection so you always find the rights parts. Read real customer reviews and sign up for email sales, coupons, and specials so you can save even more.
Read all the fine print about recommendations and requirements etc...
All of that will run on your 19's and A9l. You will need a larger sensor and while doing that... Might upgrade to 24 lb injectors just to give some room. It's not required though.
So the first thing I would do it find out why the car has a Bama chip on it. It may be that the previous owner just thought it would be a good idea and bought a canned tune i.e. no dyno time just one of their tunes based on a sheet you fill out. You may be able to call Bama and see if they can tell you about the chip based on a serial number or something. Where I am heading with this is you may be able to just remove it and not put it back on. I would also contact them and see what it would cost to tune it again based on what you decide to do. I have no experience with them so do some research.
The reason for possibly reusing the Bama chip for me would be to install a 1996 to 2001 GT Mustang 80mm MAF and then some 24 or 30 lb/hr injectors. Bama should know the stock transfer function for the MAF and be able to modify the fuel tables for the larger injectors. This is preferred over a MAF that is "calibrated" for larger injectors but a calibrated MAF will work just fine. 24's or 30's will be fine and I ran 42's for years on my mild 302 as I knew I was going to step up to a stroker and did not want to buy once. I would say that if you are going to tune the car then 24's, 30's, 36's, or 42's will all work just depends on what you can find for the best price. If you are going to go the calibrated MAF route I would go either 24's or 30's. That is just me as my experience with calibrated and larger injectors has been very hit and miss.
So with all of that said I would go with the AFR 165’s, Explorer upper and lower (have TMoss port the lower), call Comp Cams and have them recommend a cam (should be able to reuse the stock lifters but check them over), and you will need to check push rods for correct length. You will need to decide if you are going to run the stock pedestal rockers, aftermarket pedestal rockers, or stud mount roller rockers. Stock pedestals are good for about 0.500" of lift as determined by Jay Allen who used to be in the custom grind camshaft business. He also mentions that aftermarket pedestals are good to about 0.550" lift. You also need to consult with your cam provider of choice as to what they recommend and what ratio which is typically 1.6:1. If you go aftermarket then I would suggest Scorpion or Hartland Sharp as they are both still made in the USA. Comp Cams may or may not be but my guess is they have migrated offshore. There may be more so do your research.
Thread on how to plumb the vacuum lines for an Explorer intake:
stangnet.com
I would also run a cold air kit that puts the air filter in the inner fender. Depending on what MAF you decide to go with you may need an adapter for the inlet side. Several CAI's out there so do the research. I run an 2000GT 80mm MAF and use an adapter. This is how I reworked the BBK cold air kit I had on my car as it was a restriction on the 331:
stangnet.com
From here you need to run at least a 65mm throttle body which you can rob off an Explorer or get an Accufab unit ($$$ but nice pieces). Here is a write up on how to modify the Explorer TB to work on our cars:
stangnet.com
So now you have the induction on the car to your liking, good intakes, good heads, good cam and now you need fuel. If the car is still running a stock fuel pump or if you do not know the history on it I would drop the fuel tank and put a 190 log Walbro pump in (LMR has them for a decent price) and change the fuel filter while you are at it. Now the fuel system is good to go unless you just want to put an adjustable FPR on it but I doubt it will need one.
The car will eventually need a good 2.5" exhaust on it but it will run with whatever is on there.
Rear gears...man oh man. There will be all kinds of opinions on this and whoever you choose to get the cam from will absolutely need to know what gears you are going to run. I have had 3.73's in my Coupe for about 20 years and with the stock T5 first gear is pretty much worthless in that I shift out of it as soon as the car starts moving. I will be moving to 3.55's or 3.31's at some point very soon.
So I know this was a lot but planning an engine build or just doing a head, cam, and intake swap needs to be planned and you need to know your budget and then work within it.
The reason for possibly reusing the Bama chip for me would be to install a 1996 to 2001 GT Mustang 80mm MAF and then some 24 or 30 lb/hr injectors. Bama should know the stock transfer function for the MAF and be able to modify the fuel tables for the larger injectors. This is preferred over a MAF that is "calibrated" for larger injectors but a calibrated MAF will work just fine. 24's or 30's will be fine and I ran 42's for years on my mild 302 as I knew I was going to step up to a stroker and did not want to buy once. I would say that if you are going to tune the car then 24's, 30's, 36's, or 42's will all work just depends on what you can find for the best price. If you are going to go the calibrated MAF route I would go either 24's or 30's. That is just me as my experience with calibrated and larger injectors has been very hit and miss.
So with all of that said I would go with the AFR 165’s, Explorer upper and lower (have TMoss port the lower), call Comp Cams and have them recommend a cam (should be able to reuse the stock lifters but check them over), and you will need to check push rods for correct length. You will need to decide if you are going to run the stock pedestal rockers, aftermarket pedestal rockers, or stud mount roller rockers. Stock pedestals are good for about 0.500" of lift as determined by Jay Allen who used to be in the custom grind camshaft business. He also mentions that aftermarket pedestals are good to about 0.550" lift. You also need to consult with your cam provider of choice as to what they recommend and what ratio which is typically 1.6:1. If you go aftermarket then I would suggest Scorpion or Hartland Sharp as they are both still made in the USA. Comp Cams may or may not be but my guess is they have migrated offshore. There may be more so do your research.
Thread on how to plumb the vacuum lines for an Explorer intake:
Engine - Explorer intake vacuum line diagram
Have seen this question asked a million times. So here's a diagram. This is an EARLY Explorer intake with the EGR port. There were two lower manifolds. The RF-F87E-9K461-BA lower was early and had the bosses present for the ACT. The RF-F87E-9K461-BB lower was later (non-EGR) and lacks the...
stangnet.com
I would also run a cold air kit that puts the air filter in the inner fender. Depending on what MAF you decide to go with you may need an adapter for the inlet side. Several CAI's out there so do the research. I run an 2000GT 80mm MAF and use an adapter. This is how I reworked the BBK cold air kit I had on my car as it was a restriction on the 331:
Engine - BBK Cold Air Kit Rework
So many years ago I bought a BBK cold air induction kit (CAI) in chrome and it has hung around on the car since then. At that time it was bought and installed the car a 75mm Pro-M Bullet MAF so the kit worked pretty well. Several years down the road I sold the Pro-M and 24 lb/hr injectors...
stangnet.com
From here you need to run at least a 65mm throttle body which you can rob off an Explorer or get an Accufab unit ($$$ but nice pieces). Here is a write up on how to modify the Explorer TB to work on our cars:
Engine - Converting An Explorer 65mm Tb To Work On A Fox
This will be a few parts, as I make a little progress. I already have a converted explorer TB on my car but it's a later version with the enlarged TPS sensor mount. So anyway, here we are. Explorer on left, stock mustang on right. You can see the difference in the throttle linkage...
stangnet.com
So now you have the induction on the car to your liking, good intakes, good heads, good cam and now you need fuel. If the car is still running a stock fuel pump or if you do not know the history on it I would drop the fuel tank and put a 190 log Walbro pump in (LMR has them for a decent price) and change the fuel filter while you are at it. Now the fuel system is good to go unless you just want to put an adjustable FPR on it but I doubt it will need one.
The car will eventually need a good 2.5" exhaust on it but it will run with whatever is on there.
Rear gears...man oh man. There will be all kinds of opinions on this and whoever you choose to get the cam from will absolutely need to know what gears you are going to run. I have had 3.73's in my Coupe for about 20 years and with the stock T5 first gear is pretty much worthless in that I shift out of it as soon as the car starts moving. I will be moving to 3.55's or 3.31's at some point very soon.
So I know this was a lot but planning an engine build or just doing a head, cam, and intake swap needs to be planned and you need to know your budget and then work within it.
I called bama performance the other day. As for the reason for the tune I’m not sure. I gave the guy at bama the serial number of the tune and he told me it was a 3 tune program. A 93,91 and a 87 street tune. I called them again the other day and they acted like I could do the mods and send the the chip with the info of mods done and they could rewrite a program for what had been done. But that was talking to a women there and I’m not sure that’s concrete info. I will dig further into that when I can pin point exactly what parts will be used.
I wouldn't have anything to do with Bama tunes. Chuck that thing in the trash. The Steeda #18 cam was literally made so that it would be compliant with a factory tune on a foxbody. AFR 165s are great, you could probably go to AFR185s on a stock tune. The intake won't be a problem. A Cobra/GT40/Ford Explorer intake would probably work better with that size head. You can get a PMAS or Pro-M airflow meter that is calibrated for 24lb injectors. If it has driveability problems, you can get another tune from jmschip.com.
Kurt
Kurt
Willybill32
But at least it's tight!
I have the E303 cam in my ‘86 along with TFS TW heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, and several other goodies, and I’ve had a custom tune done. It regularly “bucks” at low throttle openings, and I’m convinced it’s the cam. I’d look for something more modern as suggested above.
Bill
Back in the day, the E cam was all the rage. There's memes about it. I had one.
There are better offerings now, particularly if you have a complete list of your build to give to a company to select your cam.
"Custom Cam" doesn't always indicate that cam is a one-off grind. It means it was selected by somebody that knows cams, to complete your build. If you decide to spend money on heads and intake, I would spend the little extra on the custom cam.
If I were doing bottom end too, there would be no question... Off-the-shelf letter cam? I think not.
The more your mods deviate from OEM the better off you are with properly selected cam.
There are better offerings now, particularly if you have a complete list of your build to give to a company to select your cam.
"Custom Cam" doesn't always indicate that cam is a one-off grind. It means it was selected by somebody that knows cams, to complete your build. If you decide to spend money on heads and intake, I would spend the little extra on the custom cam.
If I were doing bottom end too, there would be no question... Off-the-shelf letter cam? I think not.
The more your mods deviate from OEM the better off you are with properly selected cam.
It seems that I’ve read that with several cams. Bucking at lower RPMs. Seems like most people say a custom cam is the way to go as far as the best drivability goes. Not sure. I’m trying to find as much info as I can before I put something together and pull the trigger
If you want everything you can get out of the motor you are going to sacrifice some driveability. If you want driveability and power than you are going to sacrifice some power. I just give it a little more throttle when leaving from a stop and no issues. Cam is a Ed Curtis custom and I wanted what I could get out of the combo.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
Take the BAMA chip out
Remember, if you add 100 or so HP then the rest of the car will also need upgrading,
cooling
suspension
clutch
brakes
etc
There are many many combos out there, as this has been done for over 30 years. It depends on your budget and what you want to use the car for, If you are a total newb I would highly avoid buying anything used unless you can inspect them prior to purchasing, That being said, there are tons of used parts for sale which can sace you money.
For a budget build you can't go wrong with Explorer intake, heads, injectors, an SN95 Mass Air meter, Alex's springs, a 65 or 70MM, a tfs1 or N41 cam, and headers. you can reuse your stock rockers but aftermarket are better, You will need to measure for new pushrods. No tune should be needed and you are around 260 to280 hp
If you want to step up then either AFR 165 or TW heads, an FTI custom cam, 30# injectors and a matching ProM Mass Air meter. You may or may not need a tune depending on driveabi;ity
Remember, if you add 100 or so HP then the rest of the car will also need upgrading,
cooling
suspension
clutch
brakes
etc
There are many many combos out there, as this has been done for over 30 years. It depends on your budget and what you want to use the car for, If you are a total newb I would highly avoid buying anything used unless you can inspect them prior to purchasing, That being said, there are tons of used parts for sale which can sace you money.
For a budget build you can't go wrong with Explorer intake, heads, injectors, an SN95 Mass Air meter, Alex's springs, a 65 or 70MM, a tfs1 or N41 cam, and headers. you can reuse your stock rockers but aftermarket are better, You will need to measure for new pushrods. No tune should be needed and you are around 260 to280 hp
If you want to step up then either AFR 165 or TW heads, an FTI custom cam, 30# injectors and a matching ProM Mass Air meter. You may or may not need a tune depending on driveabi;ity
The more I read the more I change my mind. Not sure what I want to do with the car on down the rd. Vortex supercharger looks like a better option. Seems like the same price and horsepower gains as a head cam and intake swap. Vortex make one for a stock setups.
It's generally cheaper.
I will caution however, most bolt-on SC kits include a Fuel Management Unit and boost pump of some sort. These work pretty well but they're temp fixes. To do it right, you would still get larger injectors, high pressure in-tank fuel pump (or equivalent system), and a tune.
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