Does Ford think we're Stupid? 315 horse? what the hell!

Discussion in '2010 - 2014 Specific Tech' started by v8only, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    Again...the majority of the people out there want the bells and whistles. The ones that don't are less than one percent of the buyers.....so why in gods name would Ford cater to the minority, when soccer moms, retirees and parents buying their kits 6ers to get them through school would be offended that a semi high end car of this day and age didn't have power windows or locks as standard features….especially when the competition is offering them?

    Not to mention race teams strip everything out of the car anyway....so why would having a manual window crank or pull up locks as standard features make a difference when they're already ripping the door panels off, pulling out seats, mirrors and sound deadening material off of the floor to shave the weight anyway? Not to mention that serious race cars have fixed Lexan windows anyway so whether it came with a power, or manual window mechanism doesn’t make a difference since rolling them up and down isn’t an option...and the power lock motors can be taken out by drilling out a few rivets? Besides….how do you think a lot of these race teams finance their season? All that stuff that’s been taken out to drop weight is resold to cover incidentals. :shrug:

    As far as making it uncomfortable enough that their wife won't drive it....I see what you’re saying and in some small way I sympathize, but I doubt Ford is going to start stripping creature comforts that could possibly take sales away from potential female buyers just because a select few don’t have the balls to hide the keys on their wife. ;)

    Remember, Fords goal is to cater to the majority.....and from what I've seen.....females are quite a ways up on that list. And if they won’t, someone else will.

    Look how well Dodge did with the SRT4?!?! You mean took a bunch of left over neons, gave them a couple of exterior enhancements, a turbocharged 4-banger and a fancy name plate? What exactly did they do well, or that hasn't already been done before? And really.....what alternative did Dodge lovers have if they wanted a sports car? You either bought the SRT4, or ponied up 4-times as much for a Viper. Hardly a wide selection IMO? :scratch:

    As far as the Cobra R's was concerned, it never even made it to the showroom floor. They were specialty models that were all sold months in advance. If you think it was the lack of power doors, windows and a radio that sold this car......well, I really don't know what to tell you?!?

    You ask how changes would need to be made from the factory to encompass this desire by few…..well, since the mechanical components for a manual window mechanism for the S197 don't exist, they would need to be designed and built from scratch. Also, an entire new door panel would need to be considered and moulded to accept the placement of an exterior handle (remember…the S197 door panels aren’t just a flat piece of fiberboard covered in vinyl with an arm rest glued to them like the Fox bodies were). And let’s not forget the needed changes to the assembly line that would be required in order to drill and install the mechanisms themselves. All just to "dumb it down" so to speak?

    The base production price of the entire line as a whole would need to increase in order to encompass the cost, just so a select few could save 15lbs by having manual windows and doors in their car, only to reestablish that weight 10-fold in most cases with brushed aluminum interior pieces, gaudy body enhancements and an additional 100lbs worth of aftermarket stereo equipment. :shrug:

    Again, it would not be a very smart decision by Ford from a business standpoint.

    Don't get me wrong Marty.....I can see what you're saying and the reasons behind your logic, but I think if you want a "stripper" Mustang, you're going to have to create it yourself.
     
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  2. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    The SRT4 was locked and aimed at a segment and it dominated it. Nissan does this with the 350z track editions, Mitsu does it with EVO MR's, GM did it with the Z28/Formula options. There is a long long list of auto companies doing this and turning a proffit, changing the image of a certain car, and making a uproar on the car enthusiest scene. I'm not saying it would make that much sense on a money front because the proffitability from it is not that much if any at first but what aout trying to introduce a new sub model/name plate for a car that allthough has done great over the years needs some freshining up on the trim levels. The Neon went from a image of rental car that was junk to one of the if not the best bangs for the buck performance wise in the matter of 1 year, Mitsu changed the image of failure on the 3rd generation Eclipse front with the EVO and then the EVO MR introduction.

    I'm just saying that companies; when thinking about special models need to think about lower weight with the same hp type of models. Take the S197 and put it on a diet slimming it to around 3200 or 3300lbs, add a better exhaust from the factory along with slightly more aggresive timing, ecu programming upping it to something around 350hp at the crank, slap some nice suspension componets on the corners along with a nice agressive rear end gear. Price it at around $3500 to $4500 more than the GT and watch and see if it dont sell. The GT500 is great and all but there is no kinda in between. On top of that they are nose heavy beast that are priced at over what $15,000 more than the GT's?

    There are far more performance minded consumers out here than you give credit for.
     
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  3. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    BTW I love talking back and forth like this. Educated opinions on both parts. Makes for great convo for somebody like me. :)
     
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  4. FastDriver

    Mod Dude

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    I would love to see a 2010 Cobra R. The problem is, I don't want to see a blower on it. So, that would pretty much mean a repeat of the 2000, but I think they could coax another 50-70 ponies out of an N/A 5.4 no problem.

    Chris
     
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  5. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    My friend bought a '08 Bullitt edition Mustang, it weighs only 3,400 lbs. It is bone stock and with the two of us in it (he weighs 170 lbs, I weigh 235 lbs) it will get scratch in 3 gears! It also routinely get 27 mpg at 70 mph without trying. If we go out and beat on it for a day, the average is still 22-24 mpg. So I think Ford has done a hell of a job with this car. Also what other car (American) manufacturer makes a car that you can double the H.P. output without taking the valve covers off? Will a LS7 Corvette engine make 1010 H.P without internal mods? No! but the 5.4 Shelby GT500 and Ford GT will with ease. The stock 4.6 can make 600 H.P without internal mods. In other words, Ford makes their engine modification friendly, unlike the competition. So despite some of the "doom and gloom" I think Ford is doing a hell of a job.
     
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  6. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    The LS7 may not but the LS1, LS2, LS6, along with the cast iron gen 3 and gen 4 gm v8's will take double and sometimes triple their rated power before needing to open them up.
     
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  7. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    I wouldn't try it. :D
     
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  8. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Have done it many times. You just gotta know what NOT to do. As far as a LS7 making 3 times the power of stock without opening it up and messing with the internals, I don't think so. Those pistons WILL NOT take 1500 H.P. While the crank and rods are nice, the pistons will not come close to that power level. The pistons are really the weak link in that engine. The heads are very well thought out tho. Edit: Sorry I thought your comment about 3 times the power was about the LS7. Now I see it was about the LS 1,2 and 6. That is still a tough sell as the LS7 has MUCH better internals than the LS 1,2 or 6. If you ever get into the insides of those engines you will know what I am talking about.
     
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  9. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    The LS7 allthough as nice as it is really is a strung out high compression engine with lightweight fully balanced internals. I'm telling you the stock rotating assembly in a gen 3 and gen 4 gm small block will support 1000hp
     
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  10. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Lets see, the LS7 has a steel billet crank and titanium connecting rods, just not the best pistons. The LS1,2 and 6 have a forged crank and rods.......hmmmmm. I think I would take the LS7 at 1000 H.P. before the LS1,2 and 6. But that's just me.
     
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  11. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    But when your allready at 11+ to 1 compression you cant really boost the **** out of it and the heads are a solid design anyway. I do know that with a cam the car will make 65 to 75 more whp and with a 150 shot and a cam it will go mid 700's on the whp so i'd say it could touch 1000 with the right setup. Not N/A but I think it would hold up.
     
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  12. 93mustang13

    93mustang13 New Member

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    i like the new body style but i think the challenger is amazing looking. everyone bought the last body style of mustangs when they came out and there just going to do the same. the challenger is more of a collectors car then an everyday car. plus the fact that they may be putting the SRT-10 into it. can you say 600 hp!!!
     
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  13. MakotoS13

    MakotoS13 Member

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    i just know that this is the first mustang i've been excited about in a long time. from what i can tell they just took the car and made it a little better in every way.

    a little can add up to a whole lot in the long run... so we'll just have to see :)
     
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  14. GDawg

    Founding Member

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    I'm too lazy to read through six pages of posts. But isn't the whole idea of the 4.6 modular a manufacturing issue? It's what keeps Ford from being on the hill begging for money while GM and Chrysler are. They (Ford) were just there for support of the other two and not for a hand out. The Mustang is keeping Ford alive with real world value.
     
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  15. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    The Mustang is not keeping Ford alive, it may help but their F series up untill maybe mid last year has kept them in the black and making a profit. Ford has a whole stable of cars in Europe that are fantastic and if brought here would really stimulate the company money wise. I think GM will be just fine if they make it to the point of releaseing the Volt and Cruz hit the streets they will be ok. Plus with their two mode hybrid systems are really good. As of right now Chevorlet alone has 8 vehicles that get 30+mpg and in the near future they will add another 3/4 models to that range. They are headed in the right direction. The whole Flex Fuel thing really hurt them, they invested so much money into it when the government said that was the route to take. All these companies will come out ahead IMO and I honestly think they will come out of it better than they ave been in years.
     
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  16. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    Yea right, that's why both GM and Chrysler had stated to Congress that if they don't get government bailout money by the end of this month, they will not have enough cash reserves to operate through 2009.

    As for the Volt is concerned, it's not scheduled to go into production until 2010, and if you think the average Joe will be able to afford one. Think again, as the list price is expected to be well above 37k.

    As I just mentioned above, GM needs govt. bailout money now. Otherwise they will not survive beyond 2009 !
     
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  17. martyd

    martyd New Member

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    I know that, I'm saying that the Cruz and Volt will kick start a new life for the brand. They need to do something to help the Malibu, it is a nice car that should get more attention. I know they will not make it w/o bail money but I was saying that after that the inovations and plan they have for their cars is headed in the right direction.
     
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  18. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    In that case, they better hope to God that a bailout deal gets done soon. Otherwise both GM, and Chrysler are going to run out of time. And if that happens, it will also hurt Ford as well. :nonono:
     
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  19. v8only

    v8only Active Member

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    well guys, for once I'll admit I'm completely embarressed and out of excuses.

    Ford has released the official price and official news about the 2010 model, and it's not good

    2010 Mustang Options & Pricing Released - Ford Mustang | StangNet.com

    $27k for the base v8. they've raised the price.

    camaro has released their prices.

    CAMARO PRICE COMPLETE LIST -- OPTIONS + ACCESSORIES (MSRP, Invoice, Employee) - Camaro Forum - 2009 Camaro / 2010 Camaro / New Camaro SS Z28 Forums - Camaro5.com

    27k for their v8 model on employee pricing (which they always hold specials for the public) or only a measely $3k more 30k for the non employee pricing.

    Their's =425 horse
    ours = 315 horse.

    a complete ****ing embarassement.

    it's obvious ford's engine lineup is dead, and they were unwilling to do anything about it.

    the first time around, chevy build a piece of crap around a vette engine and called it the camaro.

    this time around they've got a world class platform, and more than 100 standard hp than ford for about the same price.

    I'm embarrassed for ford, honest to god....

    best of luck with chevy...I hope they teach ford a good hard lesson

    oh yea, that supercharger rumor??

    untrue. It's not a factory ford supercharger. It's a bolt on dealer item. ****, we've had that option for 15 years or so now.

    damn ford, you really ****ed this one up bad.
     
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  20. Mike Trammell

    Mike Trammell New Member

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    Not enough changes to it. My body style is the best in my opinion. That little 315 hp is not enough increase in my opinion however it lets the aftermarket folks at Ford make more money.....
     
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